Stress Disorder More Common in Women

[3rd Horseman]

TCBF,

Exactly +1

 

[Strike]

Therefore, there is NO requirement to release them as mentally fit as possible.

Now, DND caused OSI/PTSD is one thing, but issues related to potty training/a violent mother are beyond our control, and hopefully beyond our funding envelope.

And what does any of this have to do with wives being diagnosed with PTSD due to the injuries/deaths of their husbands?

 

[3rd Horseman]

Nothing we are actually on a tangent.
The thread is not even about spouses with PTSD, note how I did not say Women.
Back to the original thread......PTSD in appears to be more common in Women. 

 

[the 48th regulator]

It's hard to make real progess when this has become such a cash cow for scam artists and malingerers.

We hire people who are medically fit, so there is a requirement to release them as medically fit as possible.

We do not hire people who are dentally fit, so there is NO requirement to release them as dentally fit as possible - though we often do.  Look it up.

We do not psch test all recruits to the CF, and those of you who have spent some time in the CF know that we do not therefore necessarily hire people who are mentally fit (the murderers Clayton Matchee and Micheal White being but two examples).

Therefore, there is NO requirement to release them as mentally fit as possible.

Now, DND caused OSI/PTSD is one thing, but issues related to potty training/a violent mother are beyond our control, and hopefully beyond our funding envelope.

Release as 'irregular enrollment' and carry on.

It would be good to actually see the details of people who have been exposed as scam artists, trying to bilk the system.

Is there anywhere we can get this evidence, and post them here?

dileas

tess

 

[TCBF]

I have not seen or heard of anyone charged with malinguring for physical or mental reasons.

Perhaps one good case would sort things out.  After all, one of the best things one can do to improve the morale of a good soldier is to discipline a bad one.  But, I fear the medical profession has gone all wobbly on us.  This 'we are all victims - lets all hug (now give us the funding)' way of doing business is a growth industry, and to poo-poo it is most politically incorrect.

Hard to justify all of those re-decorated offices with the new furniture, secretaries (sorry: 'receptionists'), coffee machines and banker's hours if no one walks in the door, right?

Ever seen a bureaucracy SHRINK?

Do we have people who need help?  Lots.  Are they all going to get it?  No - they don't want to sit in a waiting room besides the guys who are along for the ride.

 

[the 48th regulator]

It's hard to make real progess when this has become such a cash cow for scam artists and malingerers.

Then best not to make such statements.  It has been hard enough for those who suffer to come forward without being stigmatized as such.

dileas

tess

 

[Springroll]

I do have a question for those of you who have been in for a while.

In basic, we received an afternoon of lessons on OSI/PTSD from OSISS. Enough to let us know a bit about it.
Will we get more intensive training on the subject once we are out of basic?

 

[Armymedic]

I have not seen or heard of anyone charged with malinguring for physical or mental reasons.

I have, it is very rare because it is very difficult to investigate and prosecute. More often, the person is just asked not to come back.

It would be good to actually see the details of people who have been exposed as scam artists, trying to bilk the system.
Is there anywhere we can get this evidence, and post them here?

probably not.

In basic, we received an afternoon of lessons on OSI/PTSD from OSISS. Enough to let us know a bit about it.
Will we get more intensive training on the subject once we are out of basic?

You get more refresher lectures, usually around op deployments. The only time you'll get "more" training is if you are selected certain relevent courses. Nothing you need to worry about until you are posted to your first unit.

 

[Springroll]

You get more refresher lectures, usually around op deployments. The only time you'll get "more" training is if you are selected certain relevent courses. Nothing you need to worry about until you are posted to your first unit.

Thank you for answering my question.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Then best not to make such statements.  It has been hard enough for those who suffer to come forward without being stigmatized as such.

dileas

tess

BINGO... When the default is automatically set to "dogfukr", is it any wonder guys are reluctant to seek help until they become a danger to themselves and others.?

 

[TCBF]

But if we don't 'out' said 'dogfukr' , and continue to allow him to strain the system with bogus claims, he STEALS scarce resources from those who need it.  As well, the knowledge that his sabotage goes unpunished casts a stain over those who walk in the door needing help.

I once asked a buddy who should go in for a talk why he did not.  He told me he did not want people to thing he was another (name and rank withheld: a scammer).

 

[Kat Stevens]

That was sort of my point.  There are undoubtedly guys who are abusing the system.  There are those from my own beloved former regiment that would say I'm one of them.  I tried so hard to avoid a label, that I let it get to a point where I very nearly could have maimed, possibly killed my own son.  All because terms like "weak kneed b*tch", "scammer", and "malingerer" are often the first words out of people who should know better.  My opinion only.

 

[battleaxe]

I think the reality of it is we have to accept that there will always be people about who will jump on the band wagon, abuse the system and create complications for those who are truly deserving of the care or benefits offered.
We'll never get rid of them.
You'll not see many cases where people are actually charged with malingering, or made an example of. As mentioned by SMMT above, those cases are very hard to prove...and I think medical professionals are all too aware that stereotyping and assumptions can cause a lot of problems...and diagnostic errors.  What if someone is accused of malingering, and is found later to have a valid complaint- that has since worsened because he/she was not taken seriously in the first place?
I don't think you'll see people being punished as malingerers or frauds for just that reason. And I also think that most medical professionals will give you the benefit of the doubt for just that reason.
Now, most of what I'm reading points to judgements being made by and about peers in the workplace. All these names - 'dogfukr', 'scammer', etc- are being appied to and by people you all work with or hear about through the grapevine.

I think that the main thing most have to know is that you will not hear these judgements in the medical system- which is confidential- and people in the workplace can not even make judgements unless it is public knowledge that someone is seeking help.

(If you are hearing those judgements in the medical system, that is a whole other topic for a whole different thread).
 
How is it that soldiers know so much about other soldiers problems-to the point that they can make judgements about whether or not they are deserving or not?

Can it not remain confidential- and the labelling and stigmatism be avoided-if a soldier chooses to keep it so?

We will never be free of people who screw up the system for others.  We have to create an environment in which all people are comfortable seeking treatment despite them-so that no one slips through the cracks.  Am I naive to think that simple medical confidentiality could be the answer? If a person knows that they will not be judged simply because nobody knows they are being treated- wouldn't that make it easier to seek help?

Just a question-I am coming from the medical side of this.  I am asking if the culture of your units/trades makes medical confidentiality difficult.

I also want to clarify that I do not feel that PTSD or mental illness is something shameful that needs to be hidden-not at all.  I just feel that- if people deny themselves treatment for fear of being judged- they have a choice to keep it quiet and confidential and to take that fear out of the equation.

 

[Kat Stevens]

There are no secrets in a combat arms unit.  Someone will ALWAYS be in the know, and will ALWAYS be ready to spill it in the canteen/mess/smoking area.  The only thing that gets around faster than rumour and inuendo in a regiment is a vigorous dose of mechanized crotch dandruff.

 

[westernarmymember]

It has been my experience that those who honestly need treatment can, and for the most part do, enjoy anonimity. It is also my experience that some individuals will broadcast and even brag about the "treatment" they are receiving and this, in itself, can cause them to be seen in a negative light. Sometimes those "taking advantage" of the sytem are only too happy to let peers and supervisors in on the joke as the educated soldier of today understands that nothing can be done about it in today's politically correct environment.

 

[battleaxe]

Two different opinions above...different experiences I guess...although I would like to figure out how it is that someone ALWAYS knows in your unit Kat Stevens-does it have to be that way?
I think that what should be stressed (prior to deployments etc) is that if someone needs help, it can be accessed in a quiet and respectful manner, and be done in anonymity- if that is what the individual chooses.
Coming from the medical side of things, I would be interested to know if the judgements and feelings of inaccessibility to care were based on the military medical system- i.e. feeling unwelcome by medical staff, feeling that the mental health offices or services were in a very public venue or in a place where you could run into others from your unit easily, overworked mental health staff, long waiting times etc.
I know when I was in Ottawa, many were concerned that they would run into peers or bosses in the hallway, or when appointments overlapped etc.  It's hard to work around those things...but if those concerns are present, they should be mentioned to the medical staff and most, I hope, would work to alleviate the problem.
Mentioning these issues during deployment briefings (pre and post) may prompt some to more willingly seek care.
Those who broadcast and brag about defrauding the system - I would have thought this behaviour improbable and kind of self destructive until I heard of one guy who told his co-workers that he had 'won the lottery' (to be fair, this is info from someone I consider reliable- so you could say it is gossip as well) - choose to forgo confidentiality - and open themselves up to speculation and judgement.  That is their own doing. 
Those who seek help for valid issues, however, and wish to avoid all the gossip and speculation, can choose to maintain confidentiality. That is what those who need help really need to know.

 

[proudnurse]

Before reading/please keep in mind it's only a personal experience/and should not reflect everyone. As others' experiences are all different.

I know there is alot that has already been posted on this matter/but I would like to share a few things myself. Having a loved one come back from the Middle East at one time/you love them so much and you see how much they have changed. To a certain extent, you do blame yourself for what you see your loved one go through. You wonder if you were supportive enough during the deployment and you kind of doubt yourself thinking you were not, even though you are. PTSD, I have learned has nothing to do with lack of support. The best thing for us to do/when we have a loved one that is going into combat is educate ourselves about this so you are prepared or it may hit you like a brick wall. You also feel upset because you wish they could be that same person that you hugged goodbye before they got on the plane. You tend to become withdrawn and depressed yourself, and a bit jumpy at times because you do not know what they are going to do next sometimes. And you feel alone/because you don't know who to talk to sometimes.

I truly do feel that it is possible, for a loved one to feel and show the effects of PTSD/not only the soldier.

Someday, the war will be over and all the troops will be home. But I feel it will never be over for those who endured not only combat, but seeing a loved one struggle upon coming home. We need to learn as much as we can about this/and be there for those who need a warm shoulder. And so we can continue to help our veterans.

God Bless

~Rebecca~

 

[Kat Stevens]

I've explained twice. A regiment is a big family. In families THERE ARE NO SECRETS. Wives talk to wives, kids talk to kids, girlfriends talk to girlfriends. SOMEONE ALWAYS KNOWS, and there is always someone willing to crank up the rumour machine. Coming from the medical side of things, as you keep saying you are, unless you've lived in a combat arms unit, you won't understand what I'm telling you.  Could someone else help me out here?  For I am a bear of very little brain, and don't communicate my point very skillfully.

spelling edit

 

[proudnurse]

It's really too bad if someone was to abuse the system over this. It would truly hinder anyone that honestly needs the support. Because there are definately people out there/that are not coping after coming home. There is abuse of system every where for so many different things it makes me so 

~Rebecca~

 

[the 48th regulator]

Well Battleaxe;

Two different opinions above...different experiences I guess...although I would like to figure out how it is that someone ALWAYS knows in your unit Kat Stevens-does it have to be that way?

Why not?  Your peers have gone through the same situations, while overseas, and with their family.  Who better to talk to than your friends.

I think that what should be stressed (prior to deployments etc) is that if someone needs help, it can be accessed in a quiet and respectful manner, and be done in anonymity- if that is what the individual chooses.

Hence why there are programs like OSISS.  I found out about them with help from a former RSM, and to this day there are few people who know I sought help.  However, there are many that saw that I needed it.

Coming from the medical side of things, I would be interested to know if the judgements and feelings of inaccessibility to care were based on the military medical system- i.e. feeling unwelcome by medical staff, feeling that the mental health offices or services were in a very public venue or in a place where you could run into others from your unit easily, overworked mental health staff, long waiting times etc.

Yes we have heard about your experience, which is why I am rubbed the wrong way when you have made statements like;

I'm on the fence on the whole issue of spouses claiming PTSD, simply because there are so many variables involved.  I will emphatically state that I know spouses can have severe reactions and emotional fall-out from facing the injuries sustained by wounded soldiers.  I was a military spouse- I know that just worrying about my husband on deployment was stressful enough- never mind if he had been hurt.  Am I ready to call it PTSD though- not yet. To me-it kind of takes away from the seriousness of what the actual initial victim experienced.  My opinion only-still ruminating on it.
I understand that an actual DSM-III diagnosis will make a difference when it comes to disability claims through SISIP and VAC-for the CF member.
There have been implications in this thread that spouses can benefit financially from a diagnosis of PTSD that stems from the trauma of seeing a loved one wounded in action or while serving.  Any basis to these implications? I'm aware that a fixed additional amount is applied to disability awards in recognition of the impact that a member's injury has on the family-but that is through the member's disability award.  To imply that a wife or husband of a wounded soldier will benefit financially from a diagnosis of PTSD seemed out there to me.

Let us bring this back to the sort of the topic, if we will.  What do you think of the lads coming back, mauled and torn.  Their spouses having to endure the pain, knowing it has happened, then seeing the result.  Their husband is not the same Physically.  Then after a while they both realize that they are not the same mentally.  Do you still not believe that both require the help, that is offered?

I know when I was in Ottawa, many were concerned that they would run into peers or bosses in the hallway, or when appointments overlapped etc.  It's hard to work around those things...but if those concerns are present, they should be mentioned to the medical staff and most, I hope, would work to alleviate the problem.
Mentioning these issues during deployment briefings (pre and post) may prompt some to more willingly seek care.

here here, a valid statement.  I totally agree!

Those who broadcast and brag about defrauding the system - I would have thought this behaviour improbable and kind of self destructive
until I heard of one guy who told his co-workers that he had 'won the lottery' (to be fair, this is info from someone I consider reliable- so you could say it is gossip as well) - choose to forgo confidentiality - and open themselves up to speculation and judgement.  That is their own doing. 

You are only perpetuating the myth with the "I once heard someone tell me that another guy did this".  No different than the challenge I offered to others on this forum when statements like this were made.

It's hard to make real progress when this has become such a cash cow for scam artists and malingerers.

more BS!!!!

I am so sick of this all this whining! Ever since VA starting giving out cash everybody has PTSD!! \

I had to fix the acronym 3 times! Man am I stressed!

Those who seek help for valid issues, however, and wish to avoid all the gossip and speculation, can choose to maintain confidentiality. That is what those who need help really need to know.

Yes avoid the gossip, and misconceptions that it is a "Cash Cow".  I can see the some of the compassion you have, however, you speak in a clinical sterile method, that those of us that suffer fear.  This is what is causing the hindrance of treatment to those of us that have suffered, and the loved ones that have had to endure the pain as well.

dileas

tess