Status on Victoria-class Submarines?
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Colin Parkinson
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video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfgecbxU5cs
funny that a small independent runs the story first.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfgecbxU5cs
funny that a small independent runs the story first.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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Morale on that boat must be very high! You can send a big thank you from us old farts to the guys on the boat for doing a great job.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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I was talking on another forum about the merits of the Victoria class vs the Type 212 and Type 214. Wiki lists the range of the Victoria class as 8,000nm, is that submerged at what average speed?
Sigh my brain is at half speed today, found my answer on wiki, sorry for any unnecessary clicking. :facepalm:
The surface speed is 12 knots (22 km/h) and the submerged speed is in excess of 20 knots (37 km/h). In snorkeling mode, travelling at low speed at periscope depth using an extendable air-breathing system, the submarine can continue at up to 12 knots (22 km/h). The range at an 8 knots (15 km/h) snorkeling speed is 8,000 miles (13,000 km). The submarine has a patrol endurance of 56 days.
Sigh my brain is at half speed today, found my answer on wiki, sorry for any unnecessary clicking. :facepalm:
The surface speed is 12 knots (22 km/h) and the submerged speed is in excess of 20 knots (37 km/h). In snorkeling mode, travelling at low speed at periscope depth using an extendable air-breathing system, the submarine can continue at up to 12 knots (22 km/h). The range at an 8 knots (15 km/h) snorkeling speed is 8,000 miles (13,000 km). The submarine has a patrol endurance of 56 days.
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Gentlemen,
Long time lurker here on this particular thread. No service history, but grew up around family that have served. Many friends from 2/PPCLI.
Does anyone have any updates on Windsor, Corner Brook, or Chicoutimi? I've googled, but much of whats there is months to years out of date.
Excited to see Victoria closing in on an official 'Fully Operational' status. Any updates from the end of Rimpac on her status?
Windsor went into the briny a few months ago - any updates?
Chicoutimi is slated to begin trials early next year - is this still realistic?
Corner Brook is entering a EDWP after Windsor is on its way to fully operational status - any updates on its 'gobsmacking' damage? ie: all I have read is that the non structural dome over the forward sonar array was damaged as evidenced by the photos. Was there any damage to the pressure hull?
To state the obvious, I'm not interested in any knowledge that would violate OPSEC. I'm just a prairie boy with a fascination for very complex machines.
Cheers,
CG
Long time lurker here on this particular thread. No service history, but grew up around family that have served. Many friends from 2/PPCLI.
Does anyone have any updates on Windsor, Corner Brook, or Chicoutimi? I've googled, but much of whats there is months to years out of date.
Excited to see Victoria closing in on an official 'Fully Operational' status. Any updates from the end of Rimpac on her status?
Windsor went into the briny a few months ago - any updates?
Chicoutimi is slated to begin trials early next year - is this still realistic?
Corner Brook is entering a EDWP after Windsor is on its way to fully operational status - any updates on its 'gobsmacking' damage? ie: all I have read is that the non structural dome over the forward sonar array was damaged as evidenced by the photos. Was there any damage to the pressure hull?
To state the obvious, I'm not interested in any knowledge that would violate OPSEC. I'm just a prairie boy with a fascination for very complex machines.
Cheers,
CG
Snakedoc
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The discussion continues..
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/navy-planners-lay-out-case-for-replacement-subs-1.922251
Navy planners lay out case for replacement subs
The Canadian Press
Published Monday, Aug. 20, 2012 3:53PM EDT
OTTAWA -- Naval planners have started to lay the groundwork for the possible replacement of the country's second-hand, glitch-prone Victoria-class submarines, arguing such warships are a necessary part of Canada's arsenal.
Planners say the country will likely need bigger, quieter boats that can perform stealth missions, launch undersea robots and fire guided missiles at shore targets.
A nine-page briefing note for the country's top military commander last year sets out the justification for keeping a submarine capability, and comes at a time when the Harper government wants budget savings in both the near- and long-term.
The report looks at what kinds of boats will be on the market between 2020 and 2050.
Ottawa was awash in rumours last spring that the current submarine program was on the chopping block because of its enormous expense and repeated setbacks, including a fatal fire aboard one boat in 2004.
"Submarines are the ultimate stealth platform, able to operate in areas where sea and air control is not assured, and to gain access to areas denied to other forces," said a May 9, 2011, briefing for Chief of Defence Staff Walt Natynczyk.
"A capable submarine force creates uncertainty; countering them is difficult, expensive and cannot be guaranteed."
Investing in submarines is prudent because "in the event of global tensions these relatively cheap assets will counter projection of power and hinder freedom of movement and action."
According to defence experts, that was a veiled reference to Arctic sovereignty, which the Harper government has made key policy platform.
Dan Middlemiss, who has written extensively on naval strategy, said the government clearly sent a message to the navy last year about the current, troubled fleet, warning: "Get these boats in the water -- or else."
That the program has been in jeopardy was subtly underscored by the navy's top commander, Vice-Admiral Paul Maddison, during an appearance before a Senate committee earlier this year.
"Assuming that Canadians will continue to see a submarine capability as a critical capability for our Canadian Forces," he said, "I would envision initiating a next-generation submarine discussion within the next three or four years ... to ensure there is no gap in submarine capability, which is what we faced in the 1990s."
Under questioning, he was more pointed: "In terms of surveillance of our ocean approaches and the protection of our own sovereignty, I would consider a submarine capability critical.
"And so to lose that for a G8 nation, a NATO country like Canada, a country that continues to lead internationally, and aspires to lead more, I would consider that a critical loss."
Maddison told the committee he didn't envision replacing the four existing boats, purchased from the Royal Navy in 1998, until the late 2020s.
But it may come sooner than that.
Much hinges on whether engineers can successfully extend the service lives of HMCS Victoria, Windsor, Corner Brook and Chicoutimi, which are already nearly 20 years old.
That assessment, including affordability, is still underway, said Middlemiss, who taught at Dalhousie University Centre for Foreign Policy Studies in Halifax.
"I think there is Sword of Damocles over the heads of submarines at the moment and I know the navy, and I think the dockyard and everybody, have had this brought home repeatedly and vigorously and are now trying to play catchup," said Middlemiss.
Other naval projects, such as supply ships and Arctic patrol vessels, have been postponed until later in the decade, and "I think most expect more cuts and outright deferral to come," he added.
The briefing note points out that the market for submarines, especially emerging powers such as India and China, has grown by leaps and bounds, but there are still only a handful of countries in the world capable of building them.
At the top of the list is Howaldtswerke Deutsche Werft, which is a division of Thyssenkrupp Marine.
The company's senior executives were part of a German trade delegation that accompanied Chancellor Angela Merkel to Ottawa and Halifax last week.
Middlemiss said giving up the capability would potentially leave Canada blind in the Arctic because nations are required to notify each other when their submarines are operating around the territorial waters of others.
"The current subs are, despite the bad press, incredibly useful and will still be of equal or even more value as climate change wrecks havoc in the Arctic," he said.
The briefing note said that the traditional Second World War perception and use of submarines has been refined.
Where once they were torpedoing enemy shipping, subs are now more useful in coastline surveillance and intelligence-gathering, as well as being able to launch guided missiles at shore targets, the way U.S. and British boats did during the Libya campaign.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/navy-planners-lay-out-case-for-replacement-subs-1.922251
Navy planners lay out case for replacement subs
The Canadian Press
Published Monday, Aug. 20, 2012 3:53PM EDT
OTTAWA -- Naval planners have started to lay the groundwork for the possible replacement of the country's second-hand, glitch-prone Victoria-class submarines, arguing such warships are a necessary part of Canada's arsenal.
Planners say the country will likely need bigger, quieter boats that can perform stealth missions, launch undersea robots and fire guided missiles at shore targets.
A nine-page briefing note for the country's top military commander last year sets out the justification for keeping a submarine capability, and comes at a time when the Harper government wants budget savings in both the near- and long-term.
The report looks at what kinds of boats will be on the market between 2020 and 2050.
Ottawa was awash in rumours last spring that the current submarine program was on the chopping block because of its enormous expense and repeated setbacks, including a fatal fire aboard one boat in 2004.
"Submarines are the ultimate stealth platform, able to operate in areas where sea and air control is not assured, and to gain access to areas denied to other forces," said a May 9, 2011, briefing for Chief of Defence Staff Walt Natynczyk.
"A capable submarine force creates uncertainty; countering them is difficult, expensive and cannot be guaranteed."
Investing in submarines is prudent because "in the event of global tensions these relatively cheap assets will counter projection of power and hinder freedom of movement and action."
According to defence experts, that was a veiled reference to Arctic sovereignty, which the Harper government has made key policy platform.
Dan Middlemiss, who has written extensively on naval strategy, said the government clearly sent a message to the navy last year about the current, troubled fleet, warning: "Get these boats in the water -- or else."
That the program has been in jeopardy was subtly underscored by the navy's top commander, Vice-Admiral Paul Maddison, during an appearance before a Senate committee earlier this year.
"Assuming that Canadians will continue to see a submarine capability as a critical capability for our Canadian Forces," he said, "I would envision initiating a next-generation submarine discussion within the next three or four years ... to ensure there is no gap in submarine capability, which is what we faced in the 1990s."
Under questioning, he was more pointed: "In terms of surveillance of our ocean approaches and the protection of our own sovereignty, I would consider a submarine capability critical.
"And so to lose that for a G8 nation, a NATO country like Canada, a country that continues to lead internationally, and aspires to lead more, I would consider that a critical loss."
Maddison told the committee he didn't envision replacing the four existing boats, purchased from the Royal Navy in 1998, until the late 2020s.
But it may come sooner than that.
Much hinges on whether engineers can successfully extend the service lives of HMCS Victoria, Windsor, Corner Brook and Chicoutimi, which are already nearly 20 years old.
That assessment, including affordability, is still underway, said Middlemiss, who taught at Dalhousie University Centre for Foreign Policy Studies in Halifax.
"I think there is Sword of Damocles over the heads of submarines at the moment and I know the navy, and I think the dockyard and everybody, have had this brought home repeatedly and vigorously and are now trying to play catchup," said Middlemiss.
Other naval projects, such as supply ships and Arctic patrol vessels, have been postponed until later in the decade, and "I think most expect more cuts and outright deferral to come," he added.
The briefing note points out that the market for submarines, especially emerging powers such as India and China, has grown by leaps and bounds, but there are still only a handful of countries in the world capable of building them.
At the top of the list is Howaldtswerke Deutsche Werft, which is a division of Thyssenkrupp Marine.
The company's senior executives were part of a German trade delegation that accompanied Chancellor Angela Merkel to Ottawa and Halifax last week.
Middlemiss said giving up the capability would potentially leave Canada blind in the Arctic because nations are required to notify each other when their submarines are operating around the territorial waters of others.
"The current subs are, despite the bad press, incredibly useful and will still be of equal or even more value as climate change wrecks havoc in the Arctic," he said.
The briefing note said that the traditional Second World War perception and use of submarines has been refined.
Where once they were torpedoing enemy shipping, subs are now more useful in coastline surveillance and intelligence-gathering, as well as being able to launch guided missiles at shore targets, the way U.S. and British boats did during the Libya campaign.
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HMCS Windsor recently completed her camber dive test
Complete coverage of the Victoria class can be found at http://blog.halifaxshippingnews.ca/search/label/victoria%20class
- mod edit to fix first link -
Complete coverage of the Victoria class can be found at http://blog.halifaxshippingnews.ca/search/label/victoria%20class
- mod edit to fix first link -
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HMCS Victoria has been doing really excellent work on the west coast.
It may have taken a long time, but we are beginning to get payback on our investment.
It may have taken a long time, but we are beginning to get payback on our investment.
drunknsubmrnr
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Must have been one major refit.
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Eye In The Sky
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Saw her in the Basin today around noon while going over the MacKay. BZ.
Colin Parkinson
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I see the Subs having been busy, sailing in Howe sound, right near my cabin, which leads me to ask, what's the best gear to catch a sub, buzzbomb, triple hook with ajig or a spinner on a cannonball? Video on link
Submarine surfaces in Howe Sound
HMCS Victoria spotted on exercises near Anvil Island
WEST Vancouver residents looking out on Howe Sound over the weekend may have seen 2200-ton steel leviathan emerge from the water just off Anvil Island.
The Royal Canadian Navy's HMCS Victoria, a hunter-killer/upholder class submarine, surfaced in Howe Sound Friday afternoon as part of a training exercise in the area.
The Victoria was spotted by John Buchanan, caretaker with the Squamish Environmental Society as he made his way down the Sea-to-Sky Highway.
"It was just the freakiest thing. I've never seen a submarine before in my life," Buchanan said. "I looked over at Anvil Island and there's this bloody submarine. This thing is huge, eh?"
Buchanan pulled over to shoot pictures and video of the rare sighting. No one in Buchanan's circle could remember any other instances of a submarine coming into Howe Sound in the past, he said.
As a conservationist, Buchanan said he has some concerns with military activity in Howe Sound, but not enough to sound a red alert. His reaction was mainly one of "good fun," he said.
"I don't want them out there every day with their sonar, do I?" he said. "But I don't know enough about them to know what the environmental consequences of what their manoeuvres may be."
The Department of National Defence purchased the Victoria from the British government in 1998 but it spent years in dry dock undergoing retrofitting and repairs. It successfully fired its first torpedoes in 2012 and began popping up around the south coast waters of British Columbia in 2013.
"When she goes out like this, if it's not a specific exercise, it's for training," said Capt. Annie Djiotsa, Royal Canadian Navy spokeswoman, "A lot of members of the public have seen her lately because she was in Howe Sound and she's been out there doing her thing."
Read more: http://www.nsnews.com/news/Submarine+surfaces+Howe+Sound/7969659/story.html#ixzz2LGyUdrkB
Submarine surfaces in Howe Sound
HMCS Victoria spotted on exercises near Anvil Island
WEST Vancouver residents looking out on Howe Sound over the weekend may have seen 2200-ton steel leviathan emerge from the water just off Anvil Island.
The Royal Canadian Navy's HMCS Victoria, a hunter-killer/upholder class submarine, surfaced in Howe Sound Friday afternoon as part of a training exercise in the area.
The Victoria was spotted by John Buchanan, caretaker with the Squamish Environmental Society as he made his way down the Sea-to-Sky Highway.
"It was just the freakiest thing. I've never seen a submarine before in my life," Buchanan said. "I looked over at Anvil Island and there's this bloody submarine. This thing is huge, eh?"
Buchanan pulled over to shoot pictures and video of the rare sighting. No one in Buchanan's circle could remember any other instances of a submarine coming into Howe Sound in the past, he said.
As a conservationist, Buchanan said he has some concerns with military activity in Howe Sound, but not enough to sound a red alert. His reaction was mainly one of "good fun," he said.
"I don't want them out there every day with their sonar, do I?" he said. "But I don't know enough about them to know what the environmental consequences of what their manoeuvres may be."
The Department of National Defence purchased the Victoria from the British government in 1998 but it spent years in dry dock undergoing retrofitting and repairs. It successfully fired its first torpedoes in 2012 and began popping up around the south coast waters of British Columbia in 2013.
"When she goes out like this, if it's not a specific exercise, it's for training," said Capt. Annie Djiotsa, Royal Canadian Navy spokeswoman, "A lot of members of the public have seen her lately because she was in Howe Sound and she's been out there doing her thing."
Read more: http://www.nsnews.com/news/Submarine+surfaces+Howe+Sound/7969659/story.html#ixzz2LGyUdrkB
What is the status on recruitment for submarine service? More specifically, I'm wondering about the demand for CSE/MSE officers (red/yellow/green?). I'm also curious about the demand for other trades on board and the available crewing for all the boats. I hear mixed things that there won't be enough crew for three boats when Chicoutimi becomes operational.
Anybody with some insight, please PM me and then maybe contact me on the DIN. Thanks!
Anybody with some insight, please PM me and then maybe contact me on the DIN. Thanks!
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The submarine community is so small for CSE/MSE Officers, you won't see a red/yellow/green status for them - only for the classification overall. The submarine positions for CSE/MSE Officers is probably barely into the double digits - so it would come down to being available at the same time that a position is becoming vacant. Express a desire early in your career to go into the submarine world and hope that the universe lines up the right way.
There are probably very few people who could tell you if there are more interested personnel than positions available - I'm not one of them, sorry.
There are probably very few people who could tell you if there are more interested personnel than positions available - I'm not one of them, sorry.
Retired AF Guy
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Re-produced under the usual caveats of the Fair Dealings section of the Copyright Act.
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Wish writers could find someone else to interview besides Staples. He never has anything nice to say about the military.
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Wish writers could find someone else to interview besides Staples. He never has anything nice to say about the military.
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