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Stéphane Dion Win's Liberal Leadership Race

>John Turner was a citizen of the United Kingdom when he was Prime Minister, it didn't affect him and his dealings with the UK.

He wasn't PM for very long, and I don't recall any severely contentious issues arising between the two nations during his tenure.  The way to resolve the question is a thought experiment: what if the PM had dual US-Canadian citizenship and strong personal ties to the US?  Would that be acceptable right now, or do you suppose a sizeable fraction of Canadians might harbour reservations?  A point to remember is that the answer to the question may be time-dependent, but that is just a warning signal that the prudent course is to have senior political leaders sever their legal foreign ties.
 
Well, should the Liberals be surprised by these questions arising?

After all, Prime Minister Jean Chretien (Liberal) used the 1919 Nickel Resolution to force Conrad Black to renounce his Canadian Citizenship in 1999 in order to obtain British peerage and sit as a debator in the British House of Lords.

Can't have British peerage or debate in their House of Lords if you also hold Canadian citizenship? The Liberals just said no.

So why now, would the liberals presume to think that it would be OK though, to hold dual citizenship and serve as Canada's actual Prime Minister? That's quite the double standard they have.
 
Jennifer Granholm, Canadian citizen, first female Attorney General of Michigan, and now twice elected Governor of Michigan.

... Who has taken the odd snipe from the tabloids because she is a Canadian... ... ...  and refused for a time to act on critiscisms that Michigan was a dumping ground for Tronna's garbage1



1 - Toronto and it's surrounding regions have a garbage problem. Recent NDP'ish city governments have refused to consider incineration and the Province refuses to approve another landfill in the GTA. For years Toronto, York, Peel and Durham garbage was, by varying degrees, compacted and trucked to a landfill in Michigan. Lately we have bestowed that honour on the London ON area.
 
Did not John Turner have dual citizenship?
 
As far as I'm concerned John Turner should have renounced also....just because it wasn't done then shouldn't change the fact it is the right thing to do.

...and George, whether you like it or not France has always been a big part of our history too.
 
To begin with, yes I admit the "slap to the face" was a bit of hyperbole on my part.


Personally, the way I see it is, if we as a nation chose to allow our citizens to retain dual citizenship (or get dual citizenship if they can) then we should not expect anyone who may be Prime Minister to have to renounce it. 

However I can see why you'd want him to, but personally I just don't buy the argument that it could be a conflict of interest

 
Rather than argue about what country Dion wants to be PM of, lets look at his fundimental attitudes and see how they mesh with how we want 21rst Century Canada to evolve:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061215.wrreynolds15/TPStory/Business/columnists

Dion gets it wrong on real freedom

NEIL REYNOLDS

From Friday's Globe and Mail

OTTAWA — It wasn't exactly what he said. It was the way he said it. In a video clip on his campaign website, Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion explains why he is a Liberal -- because, he says, "equality of opportunity does not exist with the free market."

The assertion is correct. But why specify "the free market" as the spoiler? In what alternative kind of market does equal opportunity flourish? In the unfree market? No. Mr. Dion vigorously repudiates unfree markets. "We do not want a communistic or totalitarian society," he says. "We want freedom and equality at the same time." Note Mr. Dion's quick resort to utopian absolutes. Freedom and equality. At the same time. Expressed in this alarming fashion, Mr. Dion flees peace, order and good government -- into the embrace of two-thirds of the French revolution.

Equality of opportunity, however roughly defined, is legitimate -- indeed indispensable -- democratic ideology. Equality itself isn't. Equality is the stuff of gulags and guillotines. Mr. Dion should know and appreciate the difference. Democracy itself has contributed much to greater equality of opportunity in the past century. Free markets have contributed more. Economist Michael Cox and writer Richard Alm cite a few of these contributions in Myths of Rich and Poor, an inspiring report card on economic opportunity at the turn of the millennium.

Would you rather be a millionaire living a century ago, they ask, or a regular, ordinary person now? "A nineteenth-century millionaire couldn't grab a cold drink from the refrigerator," they observe. "He couldn't hop into a smooth-riding automobile for a trip to the mountains or the seashore. He couldn't call up news, music, movies and sporting events. He couldn't jet north to Toronto, south to Cancun, east to Boston or west to San Francisco in just a few hours. He couldn't transmit documents anywhere on Earth in seconds.

"He couldn't escape the summer heat into air-conditioned comfort. He couldn't check into a hospital for a coronary bypass to cure a failing heart, get a shot of penicillin to ward off an infection or even take an aspirin to relieve a headache." Aspirin didn't reach the market until 1915.

The point here is not simply that free markets have transformed the lives of regular, ordinary people. It is also that they have transformed the lives of the poor. Mr. Cox and Mr. Alm: "By the standards of 1971, many of today's poor families might be considered members of the middle class." More than 300,000 poor American families (with incomes less than $20,000 U.S. a year) live in homes worth more than $300,000.

How can people remain poor and yet possess most of the trappings of middle-class life? By increased purchasing power. Among households living below the poverty line in the U.S., the cost of essentials (shelter, food, clothing) had fallen by 2000 to 37 per cent of all consumption, compared with 52 per cent in 1980, 57 per cent in 1950 and 75 per cent in 1920.

Statistics Canada has calculated that Canada's poor require a comparable, shrinking percentage of incomes for essential purchases: 35 per cent. And Canadian economist Christopher Sarlo, in Poverty in Canada, found himself "astonished" by the possessions of many poor families -- the dishwashers, the colour TV sets, the personal computers. Most of Canada's poor, he found, were either students, elderly people, whose savings do not count as incomes, and single-parent families. Mathematical principles dictate that roughly 20 per cent of families will always be deemed poor, at least in relative terms, in poverty analysis. In any real-life sense, however, the poor are getting richer in free-market economies. In It's Getting Better All the Time, published in 2000, U.S. economists Stephen Moore and the late, legendary Julian Simon asserted that, at the end of the 20th century, poor people had a standard of living higher than that of all but the very richest people at the start of the century.

Most poor people do get government assistance, of course. It's fair to ask how much this assistance contributes to the increased opportunities in their lives. It's equally fair to ask how much government policies cost them. Do they profit more from social programs, funded by taxes, than they pay for the consequences of slow economic growth caused by taxes and tariffs?

Mr. Dion is a champion of supply-management agriculture, which increases the cost of essential foods to the poor and which simultaneously denies equality of opportunity to subsistence farmers, the really poor of the world's poor. In his quest for equality, Mr. Dion demonstrates that some people are more equal than others. He appears unaware of the discrimination.

What kinds of equality does Mr. Dion want? One hesitates to ask. Though he is an academic, celebrated as a rigorous thinker, he occasionally exhibits a certain exuberant and adolescent self-assurance that, however charming, hints of dogmatic bully boy. From his cryptic manifesto, Mr. Dion appears to think that he can make freedom function as his servant, and perhaps, given the difficulty of the task, as his slave. Sorry, Citizen Stéphane. They tried that. It didn't work.

nreynolds@xplornet.com
 
That article has a few intersting ideas,  and allot of ... well amusing prosing.  I scrolled back up to see who wrote it and I was pleasantly surprised when I saw it was Neil Reynolds. 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinions/columnists/Neil+ReynoldsBio.html  Interesting man with interesting ideas.  Very interesting ideas.  I respect innovative ways of thinking,  but I wish to point out to all who read that article that there is a very strong personal bias, http://www.wclf.org/articles/3.1.3.html (gee same person?) yes it is from the Globe and Mail,  but in the "commentary" section.  Kinda of like the letter to the Editor section,  except they get paid to give their spin on things and create controversy to sell more papers.  Not impartially, objectively state the facts.

On another note,  it looks like the BQ rumblings over the Afghanistan mission are getting louder,  the NDP have already committed themselves on the issue,  if enough of the Grits jump on that band wagon,  we could see an election sooner rather than later.  It doesn't appear that  Stéphane Dion is inclined to prop up the Tories,  prepairing for an election.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061214.wdion1214/BNStory/National/home
"I don't want to rush Canadians into an election. That's not what I want, but my duty is to make sure that my party will be ready for elections"  Which to me means 'Whoo hoo we're having an election'
 
Some speculation on what the Liberals might run in the next election. Having Bob Rae write their platform is pretty hilarious, givne his record in Ontario, but then again, the Liberals only like to make promises, not keep them......

http://calgarygrit.blogspot.com/2006/12/nomination-watch.html

Nomination Watch

'Tis the season for election speculation. Here's a run down of some of the high profile Liberals who might have a safe seat on their Christmas wish list now that the parties are starting to gear up for the next vote.

Bob Rae - I must first say that I find it someone ironic that the candidate who put out the least policy during this leadership race will be writing the Liberal platform but I'm sure Bob will do a good job the offer is very reminiscent of Chretien putting Martin in charge of the Red Book after his win in 1990. As for where Bob'll run, that's the $845,000 question. A lot of Liberals are talking about Rae taking on Jack uno a uno in Toronto Danforth and the proposal certainly has it's merits. Last election Layton beat Deborah Coyne by 14% of the vote but it was a lot closer in 2004 and with every poll we saw this summer saying Rae could steal NDP votes, this would be The battle of the election and likely the best use of Rae's star power.

Gerard Kennedy - There are a lot of options for Kennedy but the most logical would seem to be to take on Peggy Nash in Parkdale. Even though the riding is now NDP both federally and provincially, Kennedy has stolen this riding from the Dippers before and won the seat in 2003 by an uber-majority (over a 40% lead on his closest challenger). Kennedy could also try and establish his credentials as a Western Liberal for a future leadership run which would make several Manitoba seats appealing. The Dan Report speculates about a run in Winnipeg South.

Martha Hall Findlay - After the campaign she ran, her impact on Dion's win, and the fact that she's been shuffled aside in the past for a "star" candidate, you have to figure Martha will get a safe seat. And since the safest seat around is Toronto Centre, that's where my money is.

Justin Trudeau - It's been speculated for a long time that Justin would one day run and the stars seem to be aligning for it. He raised his Liberal profile during the convention and the party is in desperate need of fresh blood in Quebec. Justin is as good at retail politics as any of the pros and it would give the Liberals some youthful energy in the Quebec caucus if he won a seat. Outremont seems to be the most talked about target, although daddy's old riding in Mount Royal could open up if Cotler decides to not run again.

Christy Clark - I haven't heard this rumour anywhere so I figure I'll be the one to start it. Given that Dion is looking for strong female candidates and Christy's husband just happens to be Dion's national campaign manager, it certainly seems like a logical fit. There are a few BC ridings which are ripe for the taking and Christy would be a fantastic addition to the federal caucus.

Martin Cauchon - After reading the Macleans leadership spectacular, one thing which struck me was how blunt Martin Cauchon was about still hosting future leadership ambitions. With that in mind, now might be a good time for a return to federal politics and his old riding (Outremont) has conveniently opened up with Jean Lapierre's retirement from politics.

Other Names
If Cauchon is making a comeback, certainly a few others in the "Chretien gang" might be considering it too. Allan Rock's endorsement of Stephane Dion was interesting, considering the neutrality of the likes of John Manley and Frank McKenna. It's also not out of the realm of possibility that a Jane Stewart or Bob Nault might consider returning to the kingdom they were driven out of three years ago. Jane Taber mentions a possible Collenette run in Ottawa Centre, although it's Penny, not David. Fuddle Duddle has speculated about some of the Quebec seats and tosses out Brigitte Legault's name as a young female candidate. There's also some talk of a Liza Frulla comeback. As for fellow defeated Liberals Anne McLellan and Reg Alcock, they haven't tilted their hand one way or the other.

The interestign thing about this post is the level of attention given to taking NDP seats. A three way fight over the Left wing vote (the Greens are fighting for this demographic as well) should have some interesting results.
 
a_majoor said:
The interestign thing about this post is the level of attention given to taking NDP seats. A three way fight over the Left wing vote (the Greens are fighting for this demographic as well) should have some interesting results.

I can't remember where I saw it Arthur but there was a column speculating about Dion and May cosying up to each other on the Environment.  You suggested earlier that a good way to handle a Liberal threat to Conservatives was for Conservatives in Liberal Friendly ridings to vote for Greens that might be drawing votes from Liberals.

Here's where I get to try out my Macchiavelli Conspiracy spurs.  ;D

Dion has adopted a "Green" Mantle which would normally put him at odds with the Greens but....
He is also moving Left drawing both Green NDPers and core Social NDPers away from Jack.  So Far So Good.

Now then, lets look at Elizabeth May.  Yes she is Green BUT she is also "Socially Conservative" judging from her position on abortion - she is opposed to it and is a strong church goer.
What happens IF those Liberals that oppose same sex marriage end up moving into May's camp - creating instant Credibility.

Dion and May then create a "Red-Green" Coalition - very popular in Europe in minority governments.

Advantage for Liberals - they trade some right wing Liberal votes for activist left wing NDP votes  which allows them to present a purer message to the electorate -while at the same time being in a position to dominate Red-Green coalition.  Advantage for Greens - presence, credibility, a seat at the table to push the environment.

Jus' whatiffin'  >:D
 
Kirkhill, it sounds like a plan from their side, and also works with the Liberals poaching NDP votes strategy.

So much for my forecasting, I had thought that the Liberals were due for a messy break-up between the leftists and anti-Americans (who would go the the NDP and Greens, as these parties have coherent ideologies), leaving a centerist party or rump. Based on the electoral results of the London North Centre by election, the NDP certainly have the most to fear from left wing vote splitting between the Liberals and Greens.

BTW, conservatives should always vote Conservative, but there is no reason they shouldn't campaign for the Greens during the election to split the leftist vote.  >:D

In the mean time, more of the "new" Liberals (same as the old ones...)

http://phantomobserver.com/blog/?p=442

The New Librano Drone Team

Here’s the thing about being an unsuccessful Librano leadership candidate: after investing so much time cajoling money out of donors, touring the country preaching to people trying not to yawn in your face, assuring your staff that life is going to get better . . . the one thing you don’t want to happen to you is the new leader trying to shove you out the door because of all the insults you hurled at him during the campaign. No, you are Somebody Important, and because of your sacrifice you (and your subordinates) deserve important positions in the Liberal Party’s future. Once you understand that particular mindset, you can appreciate Stephane Dion’s immediate problem.

Hence the appointment of Iggy to the deputy leader position:

Liberal leader Stephane Dion named Michael Ignatieff Monday as deputy leader of the Liberal Party of Canada.

Dion said he would annonce new roles for Bob Rae and Gerard Kennedy in Toronto Tuesday, calling his former rivals for the Liberal leadership his “dream team.”

Dion also said he does not want an early election, charging that Bloc Quebecois leader Gilles Duceppe seems to want to defeat the Harper government to cut short his efforts to reorganize the Liberal party.  :rofl:

Well . . . so much for Duceppe trying to knock down the Tories over Afghanistan. Dion has found his excuse for not supporting the Bloc’s idea of a non-confidence vote, but he has to recast his reasoning to “Duceppe’s really out to get us” in order to sell the notion to the Liberal caucus. This is hardly surprising, of course: if the Tory government is to fall, Dion would rather it be at the hands of a Liberal initiative instead of a BQ one.

As for the idea of Rae and Kennedy being part of a “Dream Team,” I’m inclined to think of that as just ego-stroking some losers. Certainly, Kennedy deserves a higher-up position, since he did make the deal that got Dion the leadership. And he has to give Rae something important since Rae’s Canadian Establishment connections are too valuable for the Liberals to lose.

But a “Dream Team”? Sorry, but Frank McKenna and Justin Trudeau would fit that description better. Or maybe Dion could find a medium and try to contact Justin’s father. (Hey, it worked for Mackenzie King, right?)

Duceppe’s really out to get us indeed. The arrogent mindset of the Liberals certainly didn't change with a new leader, I suppose the sun revolves around them as well.

modified to add new link
 
Stephane seems to have the same disease as Gilles.  His eyesight prevents him seeing past the Ottawa river.
 
>Dion and May then create a "Red-Green" Coalition - very popular in Europe in minority governments.

Disadvantage for Dion - Layton objects to losing his voters and cozies up to Harper on the environment.  "We work together to make a bill I like; we help keep you on the government benches."
 
Brad Sallows said:
>Dion and May then create a "Red-Green" Coalition - very popular in Europe in minority governments.

Disadvantage for Dion - Layton objects to losing his voters and cozies up to Harper on the environment.  "We work together to make a bill I like; we help keep you on the government benches."

This is very interesting, could you develop?
 
Brad Sallows said:
>Dion and May then create a "Red-Green" Coalition - very popular in Europe in minority governments.

Disadvantage for Dion - Layton objects to losing his voters and cozies up to Harper on the environment.  "We work together to make a bill I like; we help keep you on the government benches."

Not an impossibility Brad - especially seeing as how Harper has already given Jack some rope by letting "The Clean Air Act" go to committee before 1st reading after Jack's intervention. 

Left-Right vs Red-Green?
 
Funny how things work out, eh?

Layton calls for action on environment 

OTTAWA (CP) - NDP Leader Jack Layton is challenging the other federal parties to push a revamped Clean Air Act through Parliament early in the new year.

Layton says the Conservative legislation currently in committee could be rewritten to toughen emission rules and pass the Commons before an expected spring election.

The NDP has been under pressure on climate change, which it used to consider one of its strongest policy points, while polls indicate the party is losing ground on the issue to new Liberal Leader Stephane Dion.

Layton shrugged off suggestions that he's propping up the Tory government just to avoid an early election in which his NDP could lose seats.

But he waffled when asked if he would support the Bloc Quebecois in a non-confidence motion aimed at toppling the Tories over the war in Afghanistan.

The NDP has long called for withdrawal of Canadian troops but Layton says he fears the Bloc is playing political games to gain electoral advantage, rather than seriously addressing the problem.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Science/2006/12/18/2859630-cp.html

I'm willing to bet Jack will now support the Bloc on the Afghan motion seeing as how Stephane has come forward with this:

Grits won't topple gov't over Afghanistan: Dion

By REMI NADEAU
   
QUEBEC (CP) - The Bloc Quebecois threat to bring down the Tory government over Afghanistan lost its edge Monday when Liberal Leader Stephane Dion said he will not play along.

Dion said he would not back the motion of non-confidence threatened by Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe, even if Prime Minister Stephen Harper refuses to overhaul the Afghan effort. "I don't understand the Bloc's position, at all," Dion told reporters in Quebec City.....

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/2006/12/18/2859470-cp.html
 
Jack is flip flopping like a fish:

http://www.dustmybroom.com/?p=5253

NDP: No dignity present

NDP Leader Jack Layton today speaking out against siding with the Bloc on a non-confidence motion:

“I don’t like the idea of playing political games with people’s lives when it comes to the question of our role in Afghanistan, and our view is that it’s important to try to get some results out of this Parliament,” he told a news conference. (Reuters)

From what I gather and feel free to correct me but the people’s lives he now does not want to play games with are the voters because he is afraid of losing a few. Is he nothing but a skanky opportunist selling out his beliefs like a dirty whore to hold onto a little piece of the power pie? What other reason could there be? If he truly believed in what he pretends to stand for then he would do it right?

Yesterday’s Jack Layton:

“Delegates, I urge us all to stand together and reiterate our support for the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces and bring them home,” said Layton. (CBC)

Except if there is a chance of losing a seat. What a loser.
 
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