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Speed traps

Rebel_RN i can show you at least 5 places in edmonton where there are cash cows, 170 and 114 right before the yellowhead, how many people know its a 50? or 118 at the LRT station at the bottom of the hill 50km? or 127thave and 113street 50km... I can go on.
 
Rebel_RN i can show you at least 5 places in edmonton where there are cash cows, 170 and 114 right before the yellowhead, how many people know its a 50? or 118 at the LRT station at the bottom of the hill 50km? or 127thave and 113street 50km... I can go on.

Take it up with Edmonton City Council then, if you can find enough people then you can fight against the issue. As well I think that at those places they all have speed limit signs, as well you can fight a ticket in court if the speed limit is "misleading".
 
You have missed my point completly, it is canadian law that unless otherwise posted you go 50km/h that has been a standard. I lived in Edmonton and know of the places and have driven them and never gotten a ticket. It's a matter of following the law and not complaining whn you get busted because you didn't. Like I said earlier, unless otherwise posted the limit is 50km/h in Res. areas, and that has been taught in drivers ed. and publicised in the handbooks and taught by the driving instructor's, so the day of " golly gee officer I didn't realize that this was a whatever zone, I didn't realize I was speeding" is over. I disagree with you on the cash cow statement, it is up to you to inform yourself when you are driving as to what the limits are, there is signage and in the case that there isn't either follow what has been the standard or call and ask.
 
here are 3 emails that I recieved from the ex mayor, mayor elect and the current mayor

Hi Jason:



Photo Radar must be used to slow down traffic on high traffic areas.  I am very much against indiscriminate use of this equipment.  In other words, it must not be used as a cash cow.

But we have to enforce our laws as there are far too many deaths and crashes in our City.

Hope this helps

Mayor Bill

Dear Jason,

Thank you for your e-mail.  I believe that it is important to have more police officers on our streets, and to better educate drivers.  I am not convinced that photo radar and red light cameras help people to become more cautious drivers.

Please take a look at my views on safety and policing under "Issues" on www.robertnoce.com .

I hope I can count on your vote on October 18.

Robert

Thank you for your March 14th email.

Photo radar is one of the tools that the Edmonton Police have in order to control traffic but it is only one tool and my hope is that we exercise other options by putting more officers on the streets to ensure traffic control. 

Stephen Mandel
Mayor


 
'Coun. Robert Noce instructed Edmonton's police boss Monday to look into eliminating manned speed traps in favour of photo radar.

Noce sees the cameras as cash machines which may also free up more officers to fight crime, if Chief John Lindsay finds they are as efficient as cops at catching speeders.

"Let's call a spade a spade. Photo radar is a good source of revenue," the councillor said after tabling his request at a police commission meeting.'

From an Edmonton Journal article by Charlie Gillis, Journal Staff Writer on May 6, 1997.
 
Considering that I almost got killed by a speeding jackass who ran a red light last year, I have no sympathy.  And with the boneheaded driving I see daily during my commute... Anyone running a red light needs to get ticketed and hard - so hard they'll never do it again.  As for speeding - the signs are posted, the rules are clear.  If you violate the rules, be prepared to pay for it.  It's like everything else in life.  I have always wondered about the intellectual honesty and motivation of people who protest too much at rule-enforcement mechanisms, cash-cow issues aside.
 
Horse_Soldier said:
Considering that I almost got killed by a speeding jackass who ran a red light last year, I have no sympathy.   And with the boneheaded driving I see daily during my commute... Anyone running a red light needs to get ticketed and hard - so hard they'll never do it again.   As for speeding - the signs are posted, the rules are clear.   If you violate the rules, be prepared to pay for it.   It's like everything else in life.   I have always wondered about the intellectual honesty and motivation of people who protest too much at rule-enforcement mechanisms, cash-cow issues aside.

Red-light hoppers are the worst.

I was out on a ride-along one night with my father, running radar. We were set up on Route 1A (Maine) at a four-way intersection. The westbound lane had a red-light, and we watched a fellow in a Jeep (already speeding) gun it from about two hundred yards out and blast right on through the light. Needless to say we grabbed him for it.

His excuse for going almost seventy in a fifty and flat-out ignoring a red-light that he clearly saw? He was heading into town to get some milk for dinner.

Now to me, that's a perfect reason to not only break the law but endanger the lives of everyone else on the road.  ::)

The laws are there for a reason and it's the police's job to enforce them. Photo radar, speed traps, red-light cameras all serve to help them do this. This is where taxpayers' money goes because it's what the public wants. It wants to feel safe on the road. Who doesn't? Bear in mind that the fines that people who get ticketed/summonsed are charged help pay for these things as well. Personally, I'd like to see officers on the road more, running speed traps and traffic details.
 
Here's the simple deal.  DON'T SPEED.  It is fact that speed is a major contributor to fatal accidents on our roadways.  Canada has adopted a business plan called Roadvisions 2010.  Basically by 2010, Canada wants to have the safest roadways in the world.  The reason being is because we were ranked below countries like Italy for safe roadways for the last several years. 

Someguyincanada, you can call Radar "Traps" whatever you like.  Cash cows, money grabs, etc.  The simple fact is that if you don't speed, then you don't have a problem.  Speed enforcement is a deterrent to dangerous drivers.  And I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with a Police Officer at some point in your life (I'm guessing that from the tone of your posts), but I'll give you a little tip.  When an officer is confronted with attitude and smart-ass remarks when he stops a violator, you can bet that attitude will be returned.  But I have never been opposed to a violator going to court and asking for a reduction in the fine amount when they were polite roadside.  By and large, most people are humble, accept that they got caught breaking the law (which is exactly what speeding is), and go on there way.  I will even encourage some people, like students to dispute the fine amount and ask for a reduction in fine.  But you always have at least one guy that says something stupid like "I wasn't speeding", "Why aren't you out there catching the real criminals", or one of my personal favorites "This is a brand new car, I could stop in time if something happened."  I can't remember the last "real criminal" that I caught breaking into a house that tried to say "No I wasn't."
 
someguyincanada said:
if you know of more spots, please add away, as the passage of information will help all of us in the end...


Help you what ?

Break the Law ?
Kill people with your car ?
Mow down kids at a cross walk ?

As someone who frequently pick brains off highways and cuts dead bodies
out of speeding cars, I find your postings in the worst taste and contrary
to the values of a safe society.

You should not be here advocating ways to break laws.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

You will not post any information that is offensive, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

You will not post links to sites whose content is in violation of the above rules.

OM


 
Here is the result of Speeding.


Top - 3 girls speeding - 1 killed on impact, 1 pinned in car requiring major surgery, 1 thrown out.

Middle and Bottom - 18 wheeler speeding and causing 9 car accident including crushed police cruiser
in bottom photo and hitting car with mom and four kids going to birthday party in middle.

Disclaimer : All images taken by me after removing patients and taking them to an Emergency Room.
No use without my permission.

 
Speed kills period, it seems you can't even take a nice Sunday night drive anymore without getting hurt or injured, i hope they throw the book at these guys, its uncalled for and reckless no matter what peoples excuses are....

Near-fatal crash

Vehicle hit in cruise-night mayhem

By CARY CASTAGNA, POLICE REPORTER


 

A 39-year-old woman was clinging to life yesterday after her vehicle was struck late Sunday night by one of three muscle cars allegedly racing on Portage Avenue.

Winnipeg police have charged two 22-year-old male drivers and were looking for the driver of the third vehicle allegedly involved in the illegal street race.

The near-fatal crash is believed to be the first serious incident related to the city's popular Sunday night cruise.

"It's unfortunate. We felt like we were making progress," said Bob Chubala, chairman of the Manitoba Association of Auto Clubs. "Now we're going to be drawn back in that black cloud again."

But Chubala called the late-night racing an isolated incident that goes against everything summer cruising represents.

"This is illegal street racing," he told The Sun, adding he guarantees the alleged racers don't belong to any of the clubs his organization oversees. "It's a couple hot-doggers doing what they're not supposed to be doing."

A Chevy Camaro and two Ford Mustangs were travelling side-by-side on Portage, heading westbound from Moray Street shortly after 11:50 p.m., said Winnipeg police spokesman patrol Sgt. Kelly Dennison.

Witnesses told cops the cars were travelling at a high rate of speed.

As the three cars approached Wallasey Street, the driver of the Camaro lost control and collided with an eastbound Chevy Impala attempting to turn north on Wallasey, Dennison said.

The driver of the Impala -- who cops say had nothing to do with the race -- was taken to hospital, where she remained yesterday in critical condition.

Her family couldn't be reached for comment.

The 22-year-old driver of the Camaro is facing charges of dangerous operation of a motor vehicle causing bodily harm and criminal negligence causing bodily harm.

Third driver fled

The 22-year-old driver of the Mustang that stopped at the crash scene is facing a charge of racing with another motor vehicle under the Manitoba Highway Traffic Act.

Police were asking for the public's help in identifying the third alleged street racer who fled the scene.

He was driving a late-model, dark Ford Mustang with a white racing stripe.

Cops were kept busy earlier in the evening during Sunday night cruise despite some wet weather. Dennison said cops handed out about 40 traffic-related tickets.

The citations ranged from speeding, not wearing seatbelts and failing to produce a driver's licence to driving an unregistered motor vehicle, imprudent driving and driving with prohibited equipment, Dennison said.

Leanne Perth, who works at the family-owned Robin's Donuts on Portage Avenue near Wallasey Street, said she was saddened but not surprised to learn about the accident.

"It's just gotten out of hand. They take off at red lights like a--holes, they squeal their tires and rev their engines," she said, adding the stretch of Portage west of Polo Park is where most racing occurs.

Ironically, the Sunday night tragedy occurred one day after Winnipeg police, along with the Manitoba Association of Auto Clubs, staged the second annual vehicle inspection awareness clinic.

 
I have to say that I am really encouraged by what I'm reading in this thread.

Speeding is wrong and it hurts people...And helps to drive up the cost of private automobile insurance!

When you speed you put, not only yourself, but everyone around you at risk....Needlessly!

I think that Blackhorse7 will back me up when I say that quite a few (if not nearly all) vehicle accidents are preventable.

I'm glad that the majority of us realize that.

Thanks everyone :salute:

Slim
 
I think sometimes it takes a serious accident to change people. Others never change. A buddy of mine used to speed excessively. One day he was the first on the scene of a street racing accident in a fairly rural area (long response time). The guy lost control of his Honda and hit an overpass support. There was a passenger, his girlfriend, who wasn't seriously hurt. The driver was in and out of consciousness, as the roof had caved in above his head, striking him (apparently) quite hard, caving his head in slightly. My buddy held his head steady while calling 911, and tried to talk to the guy and his girl. The guy was sobbing and confused, and the girl was hysterical. Blood continued to pour from the guys ears, and the driver had a seizure, and died a few seconds later. My buddy no longer speeds.
 
You will not post any information that is offensive, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

old medic
Funny, I see nowhere where where it states in the speed trap website that it is against the law or in canadian law for that matter. The site is for information purposes only, if you dont like what the site is about, dont bash it. everyone is entitled to thier own opinion....



 
someguyincanada said:
You will not post any information that is offensive, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

old medic
Funny, I see nowhere where where it states in the speed trap website that it is against the law or in canadian law for that matter. The site is for information purposes only, if you dont like what the site is about, dont bash it. everyone is entitled to thier own opinion

o.k.

First of all...This site is owned and operated by a private citizen...namely Mike Bobbitt. We are not subject to any government rules and regs concerning freedom of speech. The short version is if Mike feels that the subject is not to his liking down it comes.

Second. Although we do not represent the CF in any way shape or form. It is widely known that LOTS of members of the CF come here to share their views on their jobs and any other relevant issues of the day.

With that in mind members of the media are regular guests here as they often use this site to gather information for whatever stories they are working on concerning the CF in some capacity.

When the media get involved sometimes things can get badly twisted and what they print is not the truth, or even a close aproximation of it.

Would you like to see a newspaper article tomorrow about how members of the CF don't think that speeders should be punished?!...Especially when so many young people are dying on Canada's roads from that very cause?!

Now, in this latest letter, you have climbed aboard a EMS professional (who has to go out and scrape dead kids off the roads) and told him to mind his own business. And then there is the issue of urging others to "report" on speed traps so that they can slow for them, then speed off once they're around the corner.

That to me is against the guidlines.

I'm not putting you on warning for it, nor am I locking this thread (which maybe should have been done right off!) But I am warning that you're skating on thin ice.

Grow up and post (and act) responsibly.

Slim
STAFF
 
someguyincanada said:
old medic
Funny, I see nowhere where where it states in the speed trap website that it is against the law or in canadian law for that matter. The site is for information purposes only, if you dont like what the site is about, dont bash it. everyone is entitled to thier own opinion....


It's a web site about how to break the law and not get caught.
It's about ignoring public safety and  law enforcement and being a thorn to society.
Posting that here was in extremely bad taste.

Don't bash it ?  It deserves bashing. repeatedly.

<edit: Thanks Slim, well said once again>









 
Between Sydney and the Queensland border there is around 12 permanent speed cams mounted on the side of the Pacific Hwy, and they catch their fair share of speeders. Plus heaps of mobiles which can get you from 600m away and take pics on three lanes heading both directions.

In Australia, the  mininum age for learners is 17, and in many states, this is followed by two types of P (provisional) plates, the 1st red for max 80kph, then after 12 mo's, green for a max of 90kph, this is held for 2 yr, then one can get his full operators licence. Soon they will also have restrictions on cc's of the engine. It takes many years to obtain a gold licence, and this is done without recieving any demerrits, and can take up to 5 yrs to get.

In Sydney, seems speed and souped up cars is enthically based, where people of 'middle eastern'   (yes this is a fact, so no race card here)appearance race and drag at a known spot called Brighton Le Sands, AKA 'Beruit by the Sea' by the locals who have finally seen some justice by the NSW poilce handing out defect notices and tickets by the handful, confiscating many of these souped up WRX's and Skylines, plus a host of similar stupid looking cars. The mods look like a fantasy version of the Too fast movies, and really look stupid.

Sadly these dragsters have cost the lives of many innocents, not mention themselves, as they drag on public roads in excess of 250kph.

P platers are only 7% of the Australian drivers, yet are 17% of those killed on our roads due to speed.

Frankly I am happy as hell to be out of Sydney now enjoying life here in SE Queensland. However, seems us Bananna Benders view things different up here when it comes to speeding, and although there are many arseholes out on the roads, the culture is different, and speeding is not as insane as it is based in Sydney.

I drive in on the Bruce Hwy, 70km one way, and I have my cruise control set for about 102kph, and I rarely get passes. Speed traps are everywhere on the bruce, and we conform to the law.

Also on holiday weekends and thru our Crimbo, there is double demerrit points and double fines to detur speeders and others from taking the risk.

Queensland's motto against speeding is is 'Every K over is a Killer'  The standard hwy speed in Australia is 100 and 110kph, with no limits in the NT and QLD on some roads in the Outback. However no limit means you can still get booked for 80kph driving like an arse.


Speed does kill, (along with inexperience, weather, poor judgement and lack of familiarisation with the road etc) and not that long ago, I arrived at an accident at Whiterock, Heathcote Rd, Sydney, where a Holden Commodore met a meduim rigid truck. It had just happened less then a minute or two. I stopped to give 1st aid, but found the driver's top half in the back seat, and his lower still behind the wheel, and guts spilt everywhere. I was fortunate enough, not to see the guy's face as he was face down in the back. Nothing could be done for him, and the truck driver was in shock. Myself and another driver, found some material to cover up the dead guy, and then left when the police arrived.

It was later found out the guy in the car was driving so fast, estimated 130 on a 80kph curve, crossed over and hit the truck, which ran over the car, ripping the roof half off, and sending it over end to end into the ditch back on its wheels. At the end of the day, if this man was doing the posted limit of 80k's, even 90, odds are he would have made it home.

Although I drive a 'hot' vehicle, I don't speed, as I am way over that, and I have learned from my own and others mistakes. Its all about being responsible.

Mind you when I was younger I did manage to get booked for speeding 3 times from 1975-1994, and I was just over their limit provided, so I am no angel either. My last one was west of of Brandon MB, east bound on the TC1, the Mounties got me for 118 in a 100 zone. Since then on the Sask side many dual carraigeways, including the TC1  now are 110. Personally on those flat boring roads on the prairies, I did not think that 118 was going too fast for the road conditions. However I broke the law and paid the fine.

My 2 cents.

Cheers,

Wes
 
Hey, I speed and I got a couple of tickets in the sunvisor to prove it.  When I do get my tickets, I am polite to the officer (who is, like me, doing his job) and I smile because I know he caught me.  I pay them promptly and will, most likely, get more in the future.  However, I've never been in an accident in the near decade I've driven, most likely because I pay attention when I'm behind the wheel.  Personally, I think that the lady driving the SUV at 40km while fiddling with her cell phone and playing with the in-car DVD player, or the 16-year kid who is showing off for his buddies in Dad's BMW is far more dangerous than me.  Obviously, speed laws are subjective considering that the state of Montana and many European states don't seem to see harm with people who drive over 100km/h.

I've never got a ticket for speeding in a populated area, especially through school zones or playgrounds, never blew a red light, etc, etc.  I drive at a comfortable speed when I am going through Canada's vast and empty hinterland on a Highway/Freeway and if I get a ticket than so be it.  This doesn't mean that I am suddenly coming up short on civic duty or something....
 
Whenever I hear trite, simplistic, statements like "speed kills" I cringe. What kills people is when they out-drive their talent or their car's capability. Speeding is part of that, but accidents happen when people fail to pay attention, fail to drive to conditions (including traffic congestion or other hazards on city streets) or simply aren't aware of the capabilities and limits of their vehicles.

Speed limits ARE often arbitrary, and there are some obvious places where limits don't make sense. A good example for those who are familiar with the area North of Edmonton is the town of Bon Accord. Highway 28 passes outside the built-up area, is twinned for it's entire length within the town limits, and, because it's in the town limits the speed has been dropped from the 100Kph of the highway, to 60Kph. In contrast, on 28A outside Gibbons, on the untwinned highway the speed drops to 80Kph with a short turn-lane to enter the town. Make sense to you? Maybe Bon accord needs a little more cash so they can start paving the side streets?

I've driven in Germany many times, and they have a few laws in place that make the lack of speed limits on the Autobahns quite sensible. One I'd like to see in Canada is rechtsgefahren which means "drive on he right." In fact, through many Canadian provinces this is a regulation on highways, and there are those "slower traffic keep right" or "keep right except to pass" signs that reinforce it - signs that truly dangerous blockheads ignore as they poke along at 80Kph in a 100 zone in the left lane. I'm more uncomfortable with passing on the right than with exceeding the speed limit by 20Kph, but even if I want to go the speed limit on the 417 in Ottawa, I'll encounter some jackass who is driving in the left lane for no discernable reason.

A legal point: in many jurisdictions it is NOT against the law to announce speed traps and photo radar sites. Radio stations broadcast those sites every morning in many major cities. In Edmonton, in fact, the police encourage those announcements because it does get people to slow down at the times when it is most critical, usually rush hours (again, it's a case of people not thinking and driving to conditions if they exceed sensible speeds at those times).

Some things I've seen indicate to me that there is less concern about safety than about meeting the budgetary requirements of a given city (I don't blame the cops, they are complying with the desires of their masters). An example that I once saw  (again in Edmonton) was a speed trap on 167th Ave east of 97th street, where the road is twinned with turnouts to exit right and left onto city streets, and where the speed limit is 60Kph. About 500m further east the road narrows to two lanes, becomes much rougher, and the speed limit climbs to 70Kph. The place the radar should have been is the intersection of 167th and 97th, where various doofi constantly blow the red light (that isn't a result of speeding, though speed is usually involved. It's a result of the nut behind the wheel.

The problem with photo radar, that doesn't exist with a police officer and a radar gun, is that there is no context. Police will often ignore cars that are exceeding the speed limit if they can see that the traffic flow is smooth, and there is no reckless conduct. A camera cannot do that. It also penalizes the owner of the car, who may not be the speeder, which is grating on the chalkboard of Common Law as far as I'm concerned. There are also credible studies from the US showing an increase in rear-end accidents at intersections with red-light radar (I'll post a link if I can find it, I got it from Car and Driver magazine's examination of the NTSB's own statistics).

Saying "speed kills" grossly oversimplifies the problem, and encourages the simultateous cell-phone-talking-donut-eating-coffee-drinking-cigarette-smoking wedges to slow below the speed limit, creating a different type of hazard on the road.

Acorn
 
Just like all of our previous pot arguments (ironically), I'm sure either side can produce statistics.

These are rules (laws, even). Who gives anyone the right to ignore them, just because they think the rule is unfounded?

To me it reeks of situational ethics... 
 
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