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Loachman said:
Will do Sir!
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Astrodog said:
As of May 23rd, YES.
Hi recce:
I'm a pilot awaiting training doing my OJT over at CFRC Toronto. I looked at the production table today and there are a number of CEOTP spots available. I'd reccommend coming in and getting things rolling quickly because we have a ton of applications for them. Just a bit of a heads up, (and certainly not to discourage you), there is a long wait between finishing SLT and getting your course at Moose Jaw. The last estimate was ~14 months. I wouldn't worry about it to much. If you want a hand with getting things started just call me at the Recruiting Centre (2Lt Jones).
I noticed that there are some guys with a fair bit of time in following this thread, so I'd like to run a few ideas past them.
My goal is to get an instructor slot at Moose Jaw, the reason being the Harvard IIs look like fun to fly, and I get the impression that you guys get to do a fair bit of different types of flying. My questions are: Have I gotten the wrong impression? & How hard is it to get an instructors slot?
I'm a pilot awaiting training doing my OJT over at CFRC Toronto. I looked at the production table today and there are a number of CEOTP spots available. I'd reccommend coming in and getting things rolling quickly because we have a ton of applications for them. Just a bit of a heads up, (and certainly not to discourage you), there is a long wait between finishing SLT and getting your course at Moose Jaw. The last estimate was ~14 months. I wouldn't worry about it to much. If you want a hand with getting things started just call me at the Recruiting Centre (2Lt Jones).
I noticed that there are some guys with a fair bit of time in following this thread, so I'd like to run a few ideas past them.
My goal is to get an instructor slot at Moose Jaw, the reason being the Harvard IIs look like fun to fly, and I get the impression that you guys get to do a fair bit of different types of flying. My questions are: Have I gotten the wrong impression? & How hard is it to get an instructors slot?
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MAJONES said:
It all depends on what you're joining for. As an instructor, you will not deploy, you will not do tactical low level nav, in fact, you very rarely will break out of the standard Moose Jaw, Swift Current, Saskatoon, Regina funk. If you're joining to do different stuff than basic flight instruction and the odd weekly formation trip (which again is usually the same stuff over and over), I would think you'll be disappointed in an instructor slot. Keep in mind, I've never been an instructor but in talking to guys I went through MJ with, it's a pretty boring job at times.
Myself, I joined to deploy, fly low and do stuff that very few people get to do outside the operational Sqns.
All aircraft in the CF have their pros and cons, even the mighty Sea King. Nowhere else can you land a 72ft long, 20,000 lb helo on the deck of a pitching and rolling ship, at night, with the hangar face only 15ft away from the front of your rotor arc.
Also, to get an instructor slot, you have to get a jet slot. Which these days apparently isn't all that hard, however, there's a very good chance you'll get sent to Cold Lake and never instruct on the Harvard II. There's no guarantees in this job, except that the testing and upgrading never ends!
"Have to get a jet slot"??? To instruct on the Harvard II? All MJ instructors must do the Hawk first? No pipeliners?
MAJONES - you have time to think and research, including a fair proportion of your Moose Jaw time. If you still want to instruct, I'm sure that that will present no great difficulty. And it's better for the students if their instructors actually WANT to instruct. I've observed that unenthusiastic instructors tend not to put as much effort into their students as they should (not that I'm an advocate of spoon-feeding).
I remain convinced that the high washout rate in Portage before Primary was turned over to civilians who actually wanted the job was due in large part to the Musketeer being the least-desired flying job in the CF, especially pipeliners with high ambition and testosterone levels. They may not have taken their frustrations out on their students, but at least some didn't do their jobs to the best of their abilities due to their own lack of motivation.
I was lucky - my principal instructor (this was in 1979) already had a couple of tours and was more mature.
The first course to go through with the civ instructors didn't lose anybody (mind you, there were only ten on the course and all were cross-trainees), as opposed to a historical 30% loss rate and 50% on the 01 course each year.
I instructed on the Kiowa in Downsview for almost four years, and rapidly found the basic hel stuff to be repetitive and boring. Fortunately, others liked doing that which left me free to concentrate on the tactical courses, which I thoroughly enjoyed.
There are a few guys who have spent most of their careers instructing. Everybody has something that they like.
MAJONES - you have time to think and research, including a fair proportion of your Moose Jaw time. If you still want to instruct, I'm sure that that will present no great difficulty. And it's better for the students if their instructors actually WANT to instruct. I've observed that unenthusiastic instructors tend not to put as much effort into their students as they should (not that I'm an advocate of spoon-feeding).
I remain convinced that the high washout rate in Portage before Primary was turned over to civilians who actually wanted the job was due in large part to the Musketeer being the least-desired flying job in the CF, especially pipeliners with high ambition and testosterone levels. They may not have taken their frustrations out on their students, but at least some didn't do their jobs to the best of their abilities due to their own lack of motivation.
I was lucky - my principal instructor (this was in 1979) already had a couple of tours and was more mature.
The first course to go through with the civ instructors didn't lose anybody (mind you, there were only ten on the course and all were cross-trainees), as opposed to a historical 30% loss rate and 50% on the 01 course each year.
I instructed on the Kiowa in Downsview for almost four years, and rapidly found the basic hel stuff to be repetitive and boring. Fortunately, others liked doing that which left me free to concentrate on the tactical courses, which I thoroughly enjoyed.
There are a few guys who have spent most of their careers instructing. Everybody has something that they like.
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Loachman said:
Yepper, you don't get your wings after the Harvard II, wings are awarded after AFT, either the Jet Ranger, King Air or Hawk. All Instructor pipes go from Harvard II to Hawk, get their wings and then off to FIS.
Isn't NFTC great?
That makes sense to somebody, I suppose.
And I bet that that person does not wear a beret.
Some of my older Tac Hel buds did Tutor and T33 on Basic, got their wings on the F5, and THEN went to Basic Helicopter. This isn't QUITE so bad.
It wasn't much before I got to Moose Jaw (8101) that everybody did 200 hours on the Tutor, got their wings, and then guys went to Basic Hel.
And I bet that that person does not wear a beret.
Some of my older Tac Hel buds did Tutor and T33 on Basic, got their wings on the F5, and THEN went to Basic Helicopter. This isn't QUITE so bad.
It wasn't much before I got to Moose Jaw (8101) that everybody did 200 hours on the Tutor, got their wings, and then guys went to Basic Hel.
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Loachman said:
I think it's a little more standard now, except for the FLIT guys who do another course on the Hawk in Frosty Pond prior to the Hornet OTU. We all do 100 or so hours on the Harvard II, then another 100 or so hours on AFT, get our wings, and then off to the OTU's. FIS would be the equivalent of the OTU for pipe instructors.
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C1Dirty said:
Woohooo .............
I guess I win ...... 174 feet long, with a circumference of about 95 feet and weighing in at 585,000 lbs.
Hello ladies!!!!! ;D
Size matters. ;D
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Zoomie said:
The pilot trade is desperate for pilots .... period.
Like many other CF trades attrition last year was higher than expected and attrition this year looks to be as bad.
The economy is good right now and many of the guy/gals are releasing at the end of their SSE and IE with some very nice severence packages and walking over to the airlines. It is simply a sign of the times and the grass on the other side of the fence is greener for them for personal and other reasons.
I have been pressing many of my colleagues here in Trenton who are navs in the air mobility community and who see a possible slow demise to their trade (CC-130J and CC177 coming on line) to OT to the pilot trade. Many are doing just that.
Right now the PML is woefully below where it should be so if I were you and if you were keen on becoming a pilot I would be engaging with whatever personnel services I could to find the quickest and best way to come over .... be it an OT, or be it releasing from the reserve force and then re-enrolling into the reg force. I don't know what the best solution or answer is, not my jurisdiction .... but believe me when I say our manning level is critical right now.
The CF needs pilots .... and many other trades too for that matter.
Globesmasher said:Woohooo .............
I guess I win ...... 174 feet long, with a circumference of about 95 feet and weighing in at 585,000 lbs.
Hello ladies!!!!! ;D
Size matters. ;D
Yeah, yeah, yeah - you just keep telling yourself that.
It's just a method of compensating.
I previously flew the Kiowa, most likely the smallest manned flying machine that the CF ever operated.
Rather a number of ladies seemed impressed by the rides I gave. If only we could run a little competition...
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I see there is a high need for pilots right now. I have been civy trained to get a PPL and am currently a Reservist with the Combat Engineers. My question is, I don't yet have a university degree, am starting first year in Ottawa in September, is there a way to begin the process now and do some training in my summers and go full out once I get the degree. Second semi related question once you get your wings is the aircraft to the pilot, as the rifle is to the infanteer i.e. the aircraft your assigned is yours for career baring mechanical problems of course? Thanks for any info.
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