GR66
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Sikh & India (Alleged) Shenanigans in Canada (split fm Non-Muslim terr thread)
- Thread starter dapaterson
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From the Ujjal Dosanjh interview.
Ujjal:"In India, I was in Punjab in May, there is no sign of Khalistan movement in Punjab. I went to my village. It's a big village. There was not a single saffron turban to be found"
05:39 of the interview.
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Re the World Sikh Organization
Mileage may vary.
Mileage may vary.
World Sikh Organization demands Canada prove Sikh extremism is a threat
Canada's public-safety ministry will reconsider the way Sikh organizations are described in a recent report outlining terror threats in Canada, the department's minister Ralph Goodale said Friday.
www.ctvnews.ca
GR66
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Interesting. A quick Google search doesn't show any specific links between saffron turbans and the Khalistan movement.
There are however pictures of Modi wearing saffron turbans which you'd think would be strange if it was linked to the independence movement.
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Minute 36:00
Ujjal on Immigration.
nationalpost.com
Ujjal on Immigration.
Trudeau isn’t being taken seriously about India: Full Comment podcast
Ujjal Dosanjh joins Brian Lilley to explain what’s really going on with the allegations and how Ottawa undermined Canada’s global reputation
nationalpost.com
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Saffron or Orange?
Ashwani Verma
Ashwani has extensive experience in the field of healthAuthor has 150 answers and 10.5K answer viewsFeb 10
In Sikhism, the color of a turban has significant cultural and religious meaning. Sikhs are required to cover their head as a symbol of respect and to maintain their faith.
An orange turban is typically worn by Sikh holy men or ascetics, known as "sadhus." The color orange is associated with renunciation and spirituality, and the wearing of an orange turban signifies that the person has renounced material possessions and is focused on their spiritual practice.
A yellow turban, on the other hand, is less commonly seen. The color yellow is often associated with knowledge and learning, and a yellow turban may be worn by Sikhs who have a strong connection to the scriptures and to their faith.
It's worth noting that the wearing of a turban is not limited to these two colors, and Sikhs may choose to wear a turban in a variety of colors, including white, blue, green, and many others. The choice of color is often personal and can reflect a particular spiritual significance or cultural tradition.
Significance of Color in Sikh Turbans
The Turban cloth comes in every possible color and pattern, however there are three most commonly worn colors which are - white, deep blue, and saffron orange. Nowadays most men and women tend to coordinate the color of the turban with their outfits and vice versa. The patterned turban has...
www.dsource.in
The meaning behind different Turban colours
When we often look at the Sikh turban, we automatically associate it with identification of religion; that is how you identify a Sikh. Have you ever questioned why an individual is wearing a specific turban colour? Whether there is a deeper association? The colour of a turban can go far beyond...
www.thesardarco.com
I'd take it as equivalent to a Liberal wearing red, a Conservative wearing Blue or an Irishman wearing Green.
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A view from the UK.
What if Trudeau is right?
Is India picking a fight with the 5 Eyes?
What if Trudeau is right?
The West’s love-in with India could be coming to an abrupt end
Countries have expended a huge amount of energy in courting India – but they will have to tread carefully
BEN WRIGHT25 September 2023 • 7:43pm
The fact that two erstwhile friendly nations are trading such caustic blows means that there has already been a huge failure of diplomacy CREDIT: Sean Kilpatrick/The Canadian Press
Canada’s dispute with India has the potential to get very messy very quickly.
Last week, Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau claimed his country’s intelligence services had uncovered “credible allegations” that India was behind the gunning down in June of Hardeep Singh Nijjar in the car park outside a Sikh temple in a suburb of Vancouver.
The Indian government has described Canada’s accusations as “absurd and motivated”, adding that Ottawa is seeking to “shift the focus from Khalistani terrorists and extremists, who have provided shelter in Canada and threaten India’s sovereignty and territorial integrity”.
It is an extraordinary spat and one that other countries are doing their level best not to get drawn into.
Jake Sullivan, President Biden’s national security adviser, has said the allegations are a “matter of concern”. Downing Street’s official response is that it doesn’t want to “get ahead” of any investigation.
It’s unlikely such studiously neutral statements will be sufficient. Over the weekend it emerged in a New York Times report that intelligence shared by the US with Canada had contributed to Trudeau’s public allegation that India had played a role in the Sikh activist’s murder.
At this point there are really only two possibilities: either Canada has committed an enormous diplomatic gaffe based on flawed US intelligence or India has something to hide.
With the stakes so high and the dispute so resolutely out in the open it is hard to see how the two countries might be able to engineer an elegant climbdown even if there was the appetite to do so.
It is equally hard to imagine how other countries will be able to resist being sucked into the quarrel. They will certainly try though. Many Western countries have expended a huge amount of time and energy in courting India in recent months.
Western politicians are hoping to secure access to India’s burgeoning market and fast-growing economy.
They also want to hasten the rise of what is now the world’s most populous country in the hope that it will become a second economic centre of gravity to rival China in the Indo-Pacific region.
Earlier this year President Biden invited Narendra Modi to address both Houses of US Congress. More recently, President Emmanuel Macron asked India’s prime minister to attend Bastille Day celebrations as guest of honour, despite Le Monde branding the gesture a “miscalculation”.
In pursuing their agenda, Western politicians have chosen to overlook the fact that New Delhi has refused to unequivocally condemn Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and has busily increased its imports of Urals oil at knock-down prices since the imposition of Western sanctions against Moscow.
Western governments have also faced criticism for turning a blind eye to accusations that Modi’s brand of Hindu nationalism has resulted in anti-Muslim chauvinism and an undermining of national institutions – accusations that New Delhi strongly denies.
Canada’s sensational claims will likely place additional focus on such realpolitik.
Certainly, neither Ottawa or New Delhi appear likely to back down any time soon. Canada is home to nearly 800,000 Sikhs, including Jagmeet Singh, the leader of the New Democratic Party, which is in coalition with Trudeau’s Liberal Party.
Modi, for his part, paints the pro-Khalistan movement, of which Nijjar was a vocal proponent, as an existential threat to India’s very existence.
Calls for the creation of an independent Sikh homeland gathered force in the 1970s and peaked in deadly clashes with Indian security forces in Punjab and the assassination of prime minister Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguard in 1984.
The issue has been a stumbling block in Canada-India relations for years. Indeed, Indira Gandhi raised the issue with Pierre Trudeau, Justin’s father, when he was Canada’s prime minister in 1982.
In 1985 a Khalistani separatist group blew up an Air India flight from Montreal, killing 329 people in the worst terrorist attack in Canada’s history.
Western politicians have chosen to overlook the fact that New Delhi has refused to unequivocally condemn Russia’s invasion of Ukraine CREDIT: KENNY
Today, the pro-Khalistan movement appears to have little traction within India but retains some hold among the Sikh diaspora around the world. These communities are mainly concentrated in Canada, the US, the UK and Australia – four of the Five Eyes intelligence-sharing alliance.
New Delhi remains convinced Ottawa is not doing enough to stop those that India accuses of being terrorists; Canada counters that pressure groups should be free to express their views as long as they do so peacefully.
Observers noticed that at the recent G20 meeting in New Delhi, most foreign leaders were picked up at the airport in either a Mercedes or an Audi but Trudeau was met by an old Toyota. If the insult was calculated to keep the Canadian prime minister quiet it didn’t work.
He raised concerns about Nijjar’s murder with Modi “personally and directly”. The official Indian readout from the meeting accused Canada of being a “nexus” of religious militancy, “organised crime, drug syndicates and human trafficking”. Trade talks between the two countries are – unsurprisingly – on ice.
Clearly, there is lots that remains unknown about this case. But the fact that two erstwhile friendly nations are trading such caustic blows means that there has already been a huge failure of diplomacy.
Even if only rhetorically, India’s approach to foreign policy in general and its campaign against active supporters of militant separatism based abroad has stepped up several notches.
If it turns out there’s any basis to Canada’s claims, Western powers will have to totally reassess their assumptions. Part of India’s appeal as a rival to China is that it is a democracy that respects the rule of law.
Those countries with large Sikh communities – the UK included – will have to tread extremely carefully, especially in the febrile atmosphere that will undoubtedly build ahead of India’s next general election in May.
Foreign affairs experts say there are growing suggestions that New Delhi believes London is not taking India’s concerns about the perceived issue of Khalistani radicals seriously.
This may be one of the reasons why trade talks between the two countries have stalled and why Rishi Sunak’s planned meeting with Modi on the eve of the G20 summit was abruptly cancelled.
There is still a great deal that the West doesn’t fully understand about India. It had better start learning quickly.
Is India picking a fight with the 5 Eyes?
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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Nothing new, India has always played the non-aligned card. Problem for India is the deck is getting smaller and where they lay their cards is getting harder. China will always be a perpetual problem for them.
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So...
This video has the
And this video makes mock of the 5 Eyes and Canada in particular (everyone is frightened of Modi's gang)
At the G-20 Modi sends an old Toyota for Trudeau instead of a limousine but he also refuses to meet with the PM of the UK Rishi Sunak.
Add in his continued support for Russia in Ukraine and the regular headlines in the Hindustani Times promoting Russian feats of arms, and Russian arms, in Ukraine.
Is the QUAD (US, Australia, Japan, India) anything more than a diplomatic exercise to keep Modi engaged?
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One can be right and wrong at the same moment about the same incident.
I’d suggest that Trudeau is correct on India, but his actions (and those of the GoC) WRT Punjab and the Kalistani movement are equally fucked up.
It seems similar to the IRA support down here in New England (specifically Boston) during the Troubles, but unlike here, that had no significant support of the Federal Government, Canada has managed to make a mess of it.
Overshadowed by all the sensationalism and geopolitical chicanery, there’s still a murder victim, and a killing that requires conventional investigation. Investigators will unquestionably be aware of the PM’s allegations and the general nature of them, but likely not the specific underlying security intelligence. They still need to ID the shooters, and have to avoid getting too wedded to any particular theory of the crime not backed by evidence available to them.
At the base of any major crimes investigation, there’s still a lot of getting off your ass and knocking on doors
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Absolutely.
Just like there is Canada and Trudeau, there is also India and Modi. Trudeau and Modi will pass.
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Unless you have a bunch of SigInt that gives you all that already...
But I think that ends at the point that Canada doesn't seem to be able to handle Intelligence Criminal issues as well as allies.
*And toss them in the back of the Suburban to drop at the border won't work in this case.
OldSolduer
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If they have the electronic wizardy stuff and it was listened to, then it was a clumsy effort. Leave no trail - electronic, documents etc.
Or maybe they meant to leave a trail….
Or maybe they meant to leave a trail….
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This is a bit much. But there has been rumors, add Trudeau's performance in Toronto where many commentators say he appeared unhinged.
On Indian TV, former Indian diplomat Deepak Vohra claims there are "credible rumours" that sniffer dogs in India found cocaine on Trudeau’s plane and that Trudeau didn't attend the G20 dinner because he was high on cocaine.
On Indian TV, former Indian diplomat Deepak Vohra claims there are "credible rumours" that sniffer dogs in India found cocaine on Trudeau’s plane and that Trudeau didn't attend the G20 dinner because he was high on cocaine.
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Who would even think of inspecting AF1? Canada is very small potatoes, (vegitable).
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While I am no PMJT fan, Heads of State (or Elected Leaders of Commonwealth countries that aren't really the HoS) don't go through security like that at all, and in no fucking way are host nation LE etc allowed into the aircraft.
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I thought a HoS aircraft was treated similarly to an Embassy. It’s considered sovereign territory. No?
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