Should the CF be retain in its present form? (Split from MBT thread)

[Zipper]

Even if we did get Leo2A6 or Abrams. Do you realize the cost behind them ? The maintenance? The fuel consumption?

What about deploying them? We don't have that ability.

If we had a 20-25 Billion dollar defence budget than we could probably have 5 full brigades, at least 120-150 of the latest and greatest MBTs, a modern and up to date air fighter fleet, a decent air movement fleet (old rusty hercs aint cuttin it no more) and a respectable navy with amphibious transport ships.

The reality is we don't have them their dollars. We are losing alot of kit and we will lose even more yet. The Canadian people put liberals in power again, so that is how our defence will be.

By the way, I have worked several times on ex (with RCD, LdSH and even 12RBC) with our Leos and I admit, nothing says love like a squadron opening up on a volley of fire...

However as I said earlier, the MBT is on the way out. We need to make peace with that fact.

Starting at the top. So what does that say about any of our mechanized forces? We don't have the means to maintain or fuel them now. Hell, with the number of retirments coming up, we won't be able to staff the base gas station.

As for deployment. There is another one that we cannot do now. As you know our Herc's are in about as good a shape as the sea kings. Not to mention most of the vehicles have to be striped down in some way in order for them to be carried. We have to "rent" transport whenever we want to go anywhere.

Ah...25 billion would be nice. But lets aim for a modest 15-20 instead and forget about 5 full brigades for the moment. I'd be happy with just 1.

Lets hope that with at least a minority, that the gov finally puts something in. Beyond that stupid insulting 500 million that was reported the other day. Ooo...      ...5000 more troops. 5000 more people without decent kit is more like it. Their probably all allocted for ND HQ anyway.

I will never let the MBT or any good peice of kit go quietly. What the hell would I have to do if I wasn't able to bitch?

Sigh...    ...I loved that feeling (vibration) that runs through your body when a troop (Sqn even better) of leo's goes driving by.

 

[Georgia Minuteman]

Hi,

I think the Canadian Military should change it's current form...and here's why:   With the relatively small budget, Canada's dependence on U.S. continental defense, and other geo-political/economic realities, I think Canada's best contribution (assuming the political will exists in your capitol) to reshape the Canadian military into a more versatile, non-conventional arm of NATO capable of performing special op type missions as its primary mission focus.    Canadian troops are well trained, disciplined, and well equipped on an individual level, but certainly NOT as a conventional force.    Canada could substantially contribute in intel, spec ops, counter-insurgency, military police-type missions with logistical back up of the U.S. arsenal.       But, do the Ottawa weenies have the guts to go to war even if the tree hugging liberals cry foul?     Bottomline:    Can the U.S. depend on Canada to fight with us....along with us....    If so, then this little snafu over Iraq and Canada's sidelining could easily be forgotten and blamed on that guy you call Chretien whose gone.    That's my $0.02

 

[Infanteer]

Good points Georgia Minuteman.

"Niche Roleing" for whatever roll has it's advantages and disadvantages.

Your proposal would definitely give the CF a mission to focus both training and resources towards.

However, I won't go for it for because it ties us a bit too much into the US Force Structure.   We are already tied in on the operational level (all our formation-level doctrine works off of coalition involvement), this would tie us in on the tactical level as well, seriously degrading the capabilities of the CF as the tip of the Canadian sovereignty spear.  

Being on the continent gives us (both the US and Canada) the (enviable) option of a strategy of choice.   Not directly threatened or geographically bound to any major defence commitments, the government of Canada should be able to choose where to put its soldiers, sailors, and airmen on the line to further the national interest.   Despite the fact that many of us may have grumbled around many of the perceived reasons for abstaining from Iraq, it was Canada's choice to make.   If we were to turn the Forces into an extended tactical arm of the US military we would seriously inhibit our ability as a sovereign state to decide where to exercise our sovereign military power (whatever power that might be....).

Any politician who went for this wouldn't be doing his job as an executive of the sovereign estate.

 

[Zipper]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Good one Infanteer. 

Yes the liberal's tend to be less willing to send troops anywhere. But if history speaks, then you'll know it was a Liberal Gov that saw us through WWII with King.

As well, most of the tasks you mentioned were of a spec-op nature. This confuses me.

We have our JTF (I would love to see that name changed), and they have been given a big influx of cash to increase their numbers.

So i ask...            ...where are these people coming from?

I was reading up on the SAS. They pass less then 15 people a year out of a course size of 300. The SEAL's are very similar in their numbers. Both these units are drawing off of a strength of well over 100 thousand with higher training standards overall. So how is it that we can build an elite spec-op force when we really only have maybe less then 20 thousand to choose from? And a much lower training standard overall? Do we pass like 1 person a year?

Just wondering.

 

[Chief Clerk]

I am not from a cbt arms MOC, but I have served with various cmbt arms units in the past 26 years.  It would seem we HAVE to change our ways to be leaner (read less expensive) as $ is not exactly being thrown our way lately!  It would seem we need to step out the COLD war years when everything was heavy (tanks, etc) and expensive.  Lately it seems we are being sent to places where speed and lightness is the way to go, esp when working in and around cities.  Heavy eqpt was good back then when we had it placed and ready to go in Germany, now we cannot even afford to move anything from Canada to Europe with begging for lift from some other country.  I wish the Govt would really sit down and tell us what they REALLY want us to do - rapid reaction force, only peacekeeping, only peacemaking, whatever - and then build and fund upon this!
And, anyway we cut it, we are paid by the taxpayer - and what they want is what we shall provide - after 26 years, just wish someone would finally paint us a clear picture.