Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF

[armyvern]

I should have said the other charge (often) accompanies sexual assault when it's done by a person of higher rank to a person of lower rank.

Seen. 

 

[eaduff]

Oddly enough this has been happening for a long time and its not just military specific.  It's not necessarily covered up but some times the accused manages to use their rank and position and knowledge of the system to escape the charge. Just doesn't seem fair.  For people in positions of authority to use that authority in order to get sex or anything else illegal or immoral is just.......  well its just f#$$^% sick.  Some people mistake a friendly outgoing attitude as some how sexual and seek to take advantage of it.  Nothing that a well placed knee or a good solid rear naked choke wouldn't solve.

No means No and that isn't just for male on female, because even though it is mainly male on female, there is also female on male, female on female and male on male.  Chances are you won't hear about those though.

 

[geo]

eaduff...

As I stated earlier, the CF has a "zero tolerance" policy and the moment superiors find out about it, the juggernaut starts moving: slow & deliberate. 

This requires that the victim comes out and speaks out - either on his/her own or with the help of a friend/comrade.  If a situation persiste, because the victim is intimidated or in spite of being known by the the comrades, then the comrade is contributing to the victimization of the victim AND the comrade is no better than the driver who carries on past the scene of an accident where help MUST be tendered.

 

[Soldiergirl]

I've got to say that I find this kinda disturbing. As someone that is in the process of joining the CF. I've heard many stories of this happening. How are you to make sure you're safe in situations like these???

 

[geo]

soldiergirl...
The CF is no more dangerous than things are on cviy street.

1.  Instructors and Leaders have received very specific directives on NOT fraternizing with their subordinates.  It should not happen.
2.  Zero tolerance - they do something, they will be reported, they will be dealt with - with all the powers the law can throw at them.
3.  Just say NO!  If you are in a situation where you feel uncomfortable - just say so!
4.  If something is done & you witness it.... report it!

Members of the CF are not animals....  the CF IS safe!

If you suddenly believe / are convinced that you are at risk.... then possibly - the CF isn't the place for you to be.....

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I've got to say that I find this kinda disturbing. As someone that is in the process of joining the CF. I've heard many stories of this happening. How are you to make sure you're safe in situations like these???

You heard wrong........................you want disturbing, come see the dirtbags in the revolving civilian justice system.

Compared to what most get, this moron got the book thrown at him......


..and lastly, if your life is still being driven by "hearing many stories" than you probably should try and grow up before you tackle a big-persons job.

 

[Soldiergirl]

..and lastly, if your life is still being driven by "hearing many stories" than you probably should try and grow up before you tackle a big-persons job.

I was just stating my opinion and saying that I'd heard of this happening more then once. Not once did I state that I'd feel unsafe. I'd like to see the idiot that would try anything like this on me!! As for growing up...well I have been for quite some time now.

Look I was just asking for advice. I take offense to a statement like this. I, and many come on this site to find and learn from those that have the experience. Not to be insulted and talked down to. Thanks

 

[the 48th regulator]

I was just stating my opinion and saying that I'd heard of this happening more then once. Not once did I state that I'd feel unsafe. I'd like to see the idiot that would try anything like this on me!! As for growing up...well I have been for quite some time now.

Look I was just asking for advice. I take offense to a statement like this. I, and many come on this site to find and learn from those that have the experience. Not to be insulted and talked down to. Thanks

Did it ever occur to you that the words you "Heard many stories of this happening" may offend those of us that serve, or have served being tainted by such a statement.

Maybe Bruce's opinion is just as valid as you caustic question.

In fact, can you provide valid sources that back your statement?

dileas

tess

 

[Pikache]

I was just stating my opinion and saying that I'd heard of this happening more then once. Not once did I state that I'd feel unsafe. I'd like to see the idiot that would try anything like this on me!! As for growing up...well I have been for quite some time now.

Look I was just asking for advice. I take offense to a statement like this. I, and many come on this site to find and learn from those that have the experience. Not to be insulted and talked down to. Thanks

I know you don't mean to tar all the men in CF with same brush, but a lot of soldiers get mildly annoyed when even implied with doing something that is totally unprofessional. And I know this is not what you mean.

It's a touchy subject for a lot of people, so everyone just take it easy

edit: If you're a girl and you're on a course, most likely you will get hit on. You're a girl, and most of the course is full of guys, esp. after couple of weeks of being CB'd and hormones being hormones. There's always few that can't handle their hormones and just lack discipline

Just don't flirt, and give the boys any ideas and if they don't respect your boundaries, tell them no. If it becomes unacceptable for you, talk to staff.

 

[Soldiergirl]

It was never my intention to insult or offended anyone in the CF, for that I apologise. I'm married to a CF member. So believe me I'm sorry if anyone took what I said in the wrong context.

For many years I've wanted to be in the CF. But life has it's own way sometimes. Many people have tried to change my mind. It hasn't worked so far. So a few harsh words won't do it either. God you should hear the crap that will pop out of my husbands mouth. LOL

Anyway I'm sorry some were offended.

 

[muskrat89]

Let's get this back on track or it will be locked.

Pencil Tech - if you have a problem with moderation, use the "Report" function, or send Mike Bobbitt a PM. Period.

Army.ca Staff

 

[Scott]

I'm still a bit young but in my years I have: served in the Military, attended a post secondary institution and worked in remote areas, including offshore, for oil and gas...

And in all places I found the behaviour the same. Put boys and girls together in a living and working/learning environment and one or both sexes will make an attempt at nookie (eventually). And in my experience with all of these things it has always taken a simple "no" to deter someone from getting fresh any further. Throw booze into the mix and it escalates.

Point is - it happens everywhere and you are no more prone to getting hit on in the CF or in a remote drilling camp or a university dorm. As well, I believe that reports of sexual abuse and abuse in general are the exception rather than the rule, at least they have been in my experience.

 

[Korus]

Wow, I had this guy on the same Driver Wheeled course as Pencil Tech..

Crazy.

 

[Scott]

geo,

I was trying to take your comments further with my own experiences, not muddle yours.


Soldiergirl, a question for you:

You're married to a CF member, right? Why come here and ask the question when you have someone fully qualified to answer sharing a roof with you? I'm just curious as it seems rather odd that your husband wouldn't set your mind at ease about this one.

 

[Soldiergirl]

Soldiergirl, a question for you:

You're married to a CF member, right? Why come here and ask the question when you have someone fully qualified to answer sharing a roof with you? I'm just curious as it seems rather odd that your husband wouldn't set your mind at ease about this one.

The reason I join on here was mainly to meet and get to know other people just starting out. My husband answers my questions the best he can. But he can't answer them all.

 

[eaduff]

I think if you look at the stats for "uninvited sex" on college/university campuses, the numbers would probably scare you.  As for the Military, we are hard core and disciplined but we are still from a rather varied cross section of society, so you will find those people who don't know that NO means NO.  It can happen at all rank levels to all rank levels and can be male on female, female on male, female on female or male on male .  The thing that must be done is to report it so we all can soldier on without fear.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2009/04/10/9075151-sun.html
Soldier wins second trial in sex case
By TONY BLAIS
The Edmonton Sun

Alberta's highest court has ordered a new trial for an Edmonton reserve unit soldier convicted of raping a female recruit at a party after a basic training course.

In a decision released yesterday, the Court of Appeal of Alberta quashed the Aug. 16, 2007, provincial court conviction of Orman Boyd Savage, 39, and directed him to appear in court on May 4 to set a trial date.
"There must be a new trial," said Justice Ron Berger. "We allow the appeal, vacate the conviction and so order."

The three-judge appeal panel ruled the trial judge erred by failing to properly use the Supreme Court legal test used in cases where both the alleged victim and the accused give opposing versions in their testimony.
Savage, a reserve master corporal, was sentenced to three years in prison on the conviction last January.

Judge Albert Chrumka called it a serious sexual assault that was aggravated by Savage taking advantage of a person who was inebriated and seeking assistance from him.
The 24-year-old victim testified at trial that she had passed out in a bathroom stall after a July 30, 2004, party at the Debney Armoury on Roper Road and when she awoke, she found Savage having sex with her.

Savage, testifying in his own defence, claimed the woman had tried to have sex with him when he was dazed after banging his head on the wall while helping her vomit.
The full-time electrician and part-time reservist, who is married with two sons, was charged after an interview by the Canadian Forces national investigation service.

Just before being led away in handcuffs, Savage was allowed to say goodbye to his wife and he reiterated that he was not guilty and told her he loved her.
In a victim impact statement, the woman tearfully spoke of losing her army career and hope of becoming a doctor.
"My life has been damaged irreversibly," she said at the time, telling court she suffers from depression and is being treated for post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

She added the lengthy court proceeding was "something that had to be done" because she believes this type of conduct happens often in the military and is "hushed up."

 

[Long in the tooth]

In all my decades instructing both RegF and Res I kept one simple rule - look but don't ever touch because nothing good can ever come of it.  And I have seen some strange sht.

 

[mariomike]

Put boys and girls together in a living and working/learning environment and one or both sexes will make an attempt at nookie (eventually).

How is this for an cozy environment? You work 16 hour night shifts. Later reduced to 12. 1900-0700. Just the two of you cooped up all alone in a _tiny_ ambulance crew room in in the middle of suburban nowhere, or perhaps dowtown or in between. 40 ambulance stations scatterred across a city. I'm talking crew rooms not much bigger than a cubicle in size. No Captain or other crewmates to play chaperone. No nosey neighbours.  Just the 2 of you until your relief comes in at 0700. Just one unisex washroom. No kitchen/dormitory etc. Just a tiny - I mean CRAMPED - little room with one, perhaps two, couches jammed side by side. These 40 or so places ( everyone completely different than the other, private homes, funeral homes, abondoned garages, industrial plazas, water treatment plants, the old morgue, I could go on and on about the stations and their transient locations! They were - supposedly - temporary.  All were isolated. )  had been acquired  - never built - as ambulance stations long before there were any females on the job,  no one had given the above  any thought.
Nothing at all to do, except wait for the next call. Might not even be a TV set or telephone. No cellphones until recent years. Wasn't even night time TV, way back when.
Of course, being professionals, nothing untoward ever happened between partners, that I am aware of. But, try convincing the wives at home otherwise!
I hope this is sort of on topic?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Savage, testifying in his own defence, claimed the woman had tried to have sex with him when he was dazed after banging his head on the wall while helping her vomit.

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