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SECRETS?

I agree Whiskey that "knowingly" is indeed the key here. And then perpetuating it's dissemination via their story.

Not using the classified info in their story or indeed immediately deleting it from public viewing on a thread in Army.ca for example falls into a far different category.

By acknowledging that the information is classified/secret, and therefore the "source" remains confidential in the story, and yet they then proceed to publish that classified information for public consumption, they are guilty in my books. And as I said in my previous post, this is what she did in this instance as she herself noted in the story.
 
"... as lawyers we are, irrespective of our political leanings and associations officers of the court first and foremost and as such are sworn and held to the standard that it is the law we uphold, not the cause/individual."

- Just curious, but, if most Members of Parliament are lawyers, why are our laws so poorly written?

:D

Tom
 
TCBF said:
"... as lawyers we are, irrespective of our political leanings and associations officers of the court first and foremost and as such are sworn and held to the standard that it is the law we uphold, not the cause/individual."

- Just curious, but, if most Members of Parliament are lawyers, why are our laws so poorly written?

:D

Tom

Don't confuse good drafting with good lawyering. Most lawyers are neither - except for IT lawyers.
 
whiskey601 said:
Yeah, George and Armyvern- so if someone intentionally or inadvertently posts classified material on this website, knowing that it will be exposed for a few minutes before the information gets yanked by a Mod and deleted to archive or placed in hidden storage - is that a leak and then knowingly in possession by army.ca? Yeesh.

The difference between army.ca and the journalist in this case though, is that the website, Mike and Mods, would most likely not protect the source from the authorities. In fact, I can guarantee you some of the mods here would be on the phone with said authorities just as they removed the info.
 
Like this?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/52021/post-465017.html#msg465017
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Like this?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/52021/post-465017.html#msg465017

Just like that  ;)

Maybe I'm prejudiced by being in a trade where Comsec is part of our bread and butter, and where Comsec procedure is ingrained into us, but IMO, wether purposefully or accidentally, the release of sensitive information and/or equipment is never justified, no matter the reason, and the book should be thrown at any offender.
 
I’m (quite clearly!) not a lawyer so I deal with opinions rather than legalities.

Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act, is the opinion of the Globe and Mail’s editorial board, from today’s (20 Oct 06) editorial page:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20061020.EPRESS20/TPStory/Opinion/editorials
The RCMP's press raid was an indefensible act

You can't do that kind of thing in Canada. Two winters ago, the RCMP raided the home of Ottawa Citizen reporter Juliet O'Neill, looking for secret documents. Yesterday, a judge said the RCMP had been trying to intimidate Ms. O'Neill into giving out the source of a government leak of classified information. This attempt at intimidation -- which failed -- was an abuse of RCMP powers, offended "the public's sense of decency and fairness" and undermined "the integrity of the judicial process," Madam Justice Lynn Ratushny of Ontario Superior Court concluded yesterday.

It was a red-letter day for press freedom, a freedom inseparable from the right to know held by every Canadian. "Given the importance of the freedom of expression and the press in our democracy, this is conduct that has caused great prejudice to those freedoms," Judge Ratushny wrote. She also struck down three sections of Ottawa's government-secrets law because they offended the constitutional right to free speech. And she affirmed the media's right to seek, obtain and possess some government secrets.

The RCMP, in defending its conduct, and the federal government, in defending its secrecy law, did not have a leg to stand on. Then-prime-minister Paul Martin suggested as much at the time of the raid, when he felt moved to say Canada is "not a police state." It only appeared that way.

The government did not claim that the secrecy law was meant solely to protect national security. Its purpose was to protect the government's right to hold on to whatever information it deemed to be none of the public's business. While the law was passed after Sept. 11, 2001, to keep terrorists from getting hold of information they might use to plan attacks, its offending provisions had roots dating to 1889, and made it a crime -- punishable by up to 14 years in jail -- to possess or report on information the government deemed "official," "secret official" or not "authorized." The potential chill on reporting the news is obvious.

But wait, said the Canadian government. Reporters could use the access-to-information law to obtain documents that they were otherwise denied.

That sounds more like Zimbabwe or Iran than Canada. Unless reporters proceed through the right channels, wait months and accept large no-go areas, they might find themselves in jail for 14 years. As the judge pointed out, the government position was oblivious to how Canadian democracy works. "It is accepted that it is an everyday occurrence for government information to be informally communicated, whether characterized as 'leaks' or not, by government officials to members of the public and particularly to the press."

It's a nice coda to the Arar affair. Canadian Maher Arar was deported by the United States to Syria, where he was detained for a year and tortured. The government leak to Ms. O'Neill was intended to discredit Mr. Arar. The RCMP raid on her home backfired spectacularly; it created so much political pressure that Mr. Martin called a judicial inquiry into Canada's role in the deportation. Mr. Arar was ultimately exonerated, the RCMP were shown to have acted foolishly, and now press freedom has been strengthened.

Thank goodness, in retrospect, for the raid. It allowed Canada to demonstrate that it is not a police state, after all.

Not surprisingly, I have some issues with the Good Grey Globe’s opinion.

First, however: I am in broad agreement with the need to have a ‘free’ press – one unfettered by government oversight and censorship.  I, like most Canadians, have neither the time nor the resources to attend parliament and the legislature and city hall and the UN Security Council every day and night and find out what politicians and officials are doing to me and for me.  I depend upon journalists to tell me what is happening in the world, my country, my province and my community.

Second: I have no doubt that Judge Ratushny’s finding that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police acted in an improper, indeed reprehensible manner is well founded.  The leadership of the RCMP and that of the government-of-that-day must be held to account – publicly.  Canadians need, we are entitled to have trust in the judicious conduct of the politician in charge of the RCMP (Solicitor General, later Minister of Public Safety) and of the forces, including the RCMP, that politician controls on our behalf.  If, as I believe Judge Ratushny correctly concludes, the RCMP’s actions were injudicious and improper then both that force and its political master or mistress, at the time and now, must be held to account.

But: the Globe and Mail says the Judge Ratushny ”… affirmed the media's right to seek, obtain and possess some government secrets.”  If that is true then Judge Ratushny’s decision must be overturned, by whatever means necessary, because no person – not even a journalist, has any ‘right’ to possess any government secrets, unless properly authorized by the government.

Journalists are not, by and large, authorized to possess secret information.  Those who, without such authorization, do possess such information must be found, arrested, tried, convicted and punished.

This brings up an important point.  I believe, based on my personal observations (many years old, now) that governments do over-classify information; political operators managed, some years ago, to classify embarrassing information which, in my professional opinion, had no reason to be classified or even protected except that it might expose a minister or a political operator to ridicule, or worse, for their silly and, perhaps, even improper actions or inactions.  I believe the same thing still goes on.

There is, I think, a pressing need to reform the way material is classified or protected.  Specifically official secrets – described in the current Act (just struck down) as “any secret official code word, password, sketch, plan, model, article, note, document or information” need to be redefined.  DND used to have a definition related to why information was to be classified as CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET and so on which I think gave good guidance as to what information must be classified and, equally, therefore, what must not be classified.

There is a separate problem for which information is protected and why (cabinet confidentiality, commercial confidence, personal privacy etc).  In my opinion, the two ought not to be mixed, even though both may end up being official secrets.

In the (necessary) redrafting of the Security of Information Act the government must preserve the essentials:

• It is an offence for any unauthorized person to possess any classified or protected information;

• It is, ipso facto an offence for an authorized person to communicate any classified or protected information to any unauthorized person; and

• It is an offence – a very, very serious offence – for any person, even one with a very high security clearance, to possess any information which (s)he is nor specifically authorized to possess.  Just because you have a TOP SECRET clearance does not mean that you can look at any TOP SECRET information.  There is a need to know principle which needs to be enforced by regulation and law.

There is also a need to find ways to prevent people from abusing the classification/protection system to hide information which can be made public, even if it embarrasses the minister or political aids.  This will be hard to accomplish but politicians owe it to citizens to manage.


 
Ah, the Globe, she didn't inherit the Times' old moniker "the gray old lady of treason" for no reason after all eh?

I am perfectly content with the Globe editor's assertion that it was 'a red letter day for press freedom'.

Perhaps the Globe would be comfortable with my further assertion that my right to freedom is inseparable from the government's right to keep secrets that, if in the hands of our enemies, could compromise my personal safety and the safety of my fellow citizens.

I trust that journalists given the right to secrets will not, willy-nilly, splash them all over the pages of their respective rags, in the process exposing weaknesses in our society, thus readily exploited for terror and criminal ends. ...Or do I???
 
A quick skim of that Editorial, gives me some rather evil thoughts......As this is a form of the Media - the World Wide Web and a site open to the public set up for open discussion, I wonder what the Judge would say to an inquiry through the Freedom of Information Act into her personal information, covering home address, phone number, employment records, Tax Records, Education records, Marital status, etc.  I am sure that all these items, and more, would fall under her judgement and should also be provided as 'Open Source'. 

Her judgement is very faulty and really opens up a plethora of problems for individual and collective Security.
 
What else would you like to know about her?

http://canada.justice.gc.ca/en/news/ja/1999/on0702.html

OTTAWA, July 2, 1999 -- The Honourable Anne McLellan, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, today announced the following appointments:

The Honourable Lynn D. Ratushny of Ottawa, currently an Ontario provincial court judge, is appointed a judge of the Superior Court of Justice (Ontario) in Ottawa. She replaces Mr. Justice W. Dan Chilcott, who has chosen to become a supernumerary judge.

After graduating in Law from the University of Saskatchewan in 1967, Madam Justice Ratushny joined the Privy Council Office, where she worked as a legal adviser and research assistant until 1974. After being called to the Ontario Bar in 1979, she joined the Ottawa law firm of Perley-Robertson, Panet, Hill & McDougall. Before her appointment to the Ontario Court of Justice (Provincial Division) in 1991, Madam Justice Ratushny had practised mainly corporate and commercial law with the firm of Soloway, Wright since 1987.

Madam Justice Ratushny has been a member of the County of Carleton Law Association, and she was also a founding member and President of the Thomas More Lawyers’ Guild of Ottawa. From 1995 to 1997, Madam Justice Ratushny served as Chair of the Self Defence Review.

 
If a secret is intellectual property and knowingly accepting stolen property is as much a crime as trafficking in stolen property or stealing property then on what grounds should the reporter receiving the stolen secret not be punished in the same manner as the person stealing and disseminating the secret?

The pawnshop owner is liable for the contents of his/her store.  The reporter should be liable for the contents of his/her stories.
 
Just as a follow up to the original post, the Crown has decided not to pursue an appeal.  http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=6f928e19-27c0-471b-8996-bd090f3415a8&k=46023



 
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