Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread

[Sig_Des]

I expect that one of the dilemmas the system will face in awarding this medal is cases of self-inflicted wounds when the member was suffering from PTSD symptoms.  There are probably many aspects of the medal eligibility criteria that few of us have the professional background to assess individual cases.

I touched onto that in my initial reply to snafu-bar here:

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/50674/post-750310.html#msg750310

He automatically associated self-inflicted wounds to suicide. I simplified to show that self-inflicted can mean different things

 

[Snafu-Bar]

Both a civil servant and a member of the CF serve their country, but only one of the does so under the knowledge that they may pay the ultimate sacrifice in the course of their normal duties.  If both died in a bus accident, neither having ever left the country, why would one have a greater eligibility for such an award under your wide applicability than the other?

I think you need to do some more research into "self inflicted wounds" (of the variety of physical damage intended to avoid perceived further danger, i.e., not the "sunburn" type), not all of which are fatal, or intended to be.  Also, the reasons for them historically vary widely.  I expect that one of the dilemmas the system will face in awarding this medal is cases of self-inflicted wounds when the member was suffering from PTSD symptoms.  There are probably many aspects of the medal eligibility criteria that few of us have the professional background to assess individual cases.

Civil servants are still considered civilians, not "property of canada" thus the distinction with the medals.

As for the other i was referring to the list of things that would be considered a disqualification as i will show again below

Ineligible cases include but are not limited to:

death or wounds due to exposure to the elements other than listed above, or caused by acts of God; <-- during duty this should NOT deter anyone from getting this medal as far as i'm concerned.
death or wounds caused by an accident arising from their employment in a theatre of operations but were not directly attributable to a hostile action; <--- also should have no bearing on getting this medal.
death or wounds caused by disease; or  <-- debateable case by case. Gangreen for example, food poisoning.. so on so forth.
death or wounds that were self-inflicted or caused by the victim's negligence.  <--- My reference to suicide as a no brainer fail on getting the award!
For more details, see these examples.

Again i'm still a civilian and this is just my point of view 

Cheers

 

[George Wallace]

Ineligible cases include but are not limited to:

death or wounds caused by an accident arising from their employment in a theatre of operations but were not directly attributable to a hostile action;

Just because someone is in Theatre, doesn't mean that they can not have a Non-Combat related injury or death.  A guy could die in the gym from a Stroke.  A guy could be foolish enough to get between a backing vehicle and a wall in the Transport Compound.  A guy could walk into a Prop on the Flightline.  These are all accidents, injuries, or deaths that are "not in the face of the enemy".  If all three examples, however, were the result of enemy fire coming down on the Camp, then there may be a chance of changing the circumstances.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Civil servants are still considered civilians, not "property of canada" thus the distinction with the medals.

A small point, but where do you get this 'property of Canada' idea that you've used several times in this thread?

WRT to your thoughts about 'injury' and this Sacrifice Medal....I was injured in 1992, and receive a pension from VAC since Jan 2005 for this injury.  It was a back injury from parachuting, in peacetime, in Canada.  I would NOT want to have this medal, or the Wound Stripe, ever ever ever for something like this.  I would have to explain to people what it was for; the guy next to me might be Tess, or BulletMagnet, or any other of our vets who have been 'wounded in combat'.  Injured and wounded are two VERY different things to me.

My take on the "act of god" deal was that ANYONE during the course of thier jobs in theatre or OJT could be taken out, be it a lightening strike or some other disaster, does it change the fact that the person died while in service to thier country?  Why bother making it a "sacrifice medal" if it's not handed to those who died period, let alone taking a bullet.

And the self inflicted wounds would be refferred to as suicide. Hence my choice of words. Hope that clarifies my take on it.

Cheers

My daughter will already get my Memorial Cross, if I manage to kill myself somehow in training or in the conduct of my duties, not related to direct action with the enemy; that is enough, thanks.  If you read up on the Memorial Cross you will see that is quite nicely covers the areas you are suggesting the Sacrifice Medal does not, IMO.

 

[Snafu-Bar]

A small point, but where do you get this 'property of Canada' idea that you've used several times in this thread?


When you sign up for duty. You essentially signed up to be a soldier and do your part for your country, hence property of canada.

Cheers.

 

[Michael OLeary]

When you sign up for duty. You essentially signed up to be a soldier and do your part for your country, hence property of canada.

We used to talk about our "dependents, furniture and effects" all in one phrase when we talked about our posting moves.  We stopped doing that because people aren't the same as property.  Please stop describing us in that manner.

Thank you.

 

[armyvern]

And, we give up some of our rights by doing that, not all of them. We serve on "behalf" of Canada --- imagine calling someone "Property of IMP Aviation" ... I saw enough "Property of" declarations in Sturgis ... I may certainly "represent", but I am not "owned". I joined voluntarily, and can still get out voluntarily; your comment is more properly suited to soldiers of "conscription" nations as they are, quite definitely, "owned".

My .02 cents worth.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

A small point, but where do you get this 'property of Canada' idea that you've used several times in this thread?


When you sign up for duty. You essentially signed up to be a soldier and do your part for your country, hence property of canada.

Cheers.

Actually, I swore my Canadian Forces Oath Of Allegiance.

"I, Eye In the Sky, DO SWEAR THAT I WILL BE FAITHFUL AND BEAR TRUE ALLEGIANCE TO HER MAJESTY, QUEEN ELIZABETH THE SECOND, QUEEN OF CANADA, HER HEIRS AND SUCCESSORS ACCORDING TO LAW.

SO HELP ME GOD

I never once in the past 19 years, 1 month and 5 days thought I was the property of Canada, rather, that I had chosen to serve it.

 

[armyvern]

Nor did I. Nor did any of us I'm quite sure.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

A soldier in my unit has the wound strip and I think it looks alot better than adding another medal IMHO instead of saying,

I got this medal for this Tour and that that Tour, this one is my 12 yrs Service Medal, and this one is for getting blown up.

My 2 cents.

 

[chrisf]

Just out of curiosity (Sorry if I've missed the answer already) will the wear of the "sacrifice" medal after it's been presented be optional like the wear of the wound stripe was?

I don't think I'd be amiss if I were to say there are soldiers who choose not to wear their wound stripes...

 

[RHFC_piper]

As much as I'm not keen on the concept of a Purple Heart like medal, and don't believe we should stray away from the Tradition of the wound stripe, we have to realize even the wound stripe has changed over the years... and for a while, it wasn't even issued in most cases.
Hell, when I got mine, the person who gave it too me had no idea where it was to be worn.

But, consider the changes this decoration has already gone through;

WW1

WW2

(couldn't find a good pic - this is from my WW2 Reenactment uniform)

Current

So, as much as I'm not totally for the medal, the wound decoration has already changed, slightly, a few times.   Just pointing that out...
... I prefer the stripe, I just wish it was still made of brass.

 

[gwp]

That is because they are detailed in CFP 265 (A-AD-265-00/AG-001) Canadian Forces Dress Instructions.

From this link

It's a moot point since the medal does replace wound stripes effective 7 October 2001 and is not retroactive.

CONTEXT
The Sacrifice Medal was created in the context of increased casualties in overseas operations to fulfill the desire of Canadians and the Government to provide formal recognition, through the award of an official medal emanating from the Crown, to those who are killed or wounded by hostile action. This honour replaces the Wound Stripe.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/dhr-ddhr/chart/eng/chart_display_e.asp?cat=3&ref=SM

The inaugural presentation ceremony will be held by the Governor General at Rideau Hall at a later date on which occasion Her Excellency will present the Medal to approximately 50 representative recipients. General distribution will follow with priority given to posthumous awards. There were an estimated 360 potential recipients at the time of the announcement of the creation of the medal.

 

[George Wallace]

It's a moot point since the medal does replace wound stripes

So?

It will still be detailed in CFP 265 (A-AD-265-00/AG-001) Canadian Forces Dress Instructions as to how, when and where it will be worn and by whom.

The question is:  If it replaces the Wound Stripe, then why are those who were awarded the Wound Stripe prior to 2001 may not be eligible for the new medal, as it is back dated to October 7, 2001 only?  http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/dhr-ddhr/chart/eng/chart_display_e.asp?cat=3&ref=SM

 

[aesop081]

When you sign up for duty. You essentially signed up to be a soldier and do your part for your country, hence property of canada.

Hey, Civvy guy.......

Go lecture someone else about what signing up means.

 

[Reccesoldier]

Just got back in town, I'll see if I can help.

Yes, for all those concerned there is a list of all awards and decorations and it is kept up to date as things are entered by DH&R.  Yes, it's a computer system.

As far as I know there is NO directive ordering a person to wear any medal he/she is awarded.  I looked through the CF Directions and Orders (when it was my job to know such things) and couldn't find a thing.  Let me know if you do...  

As far as I know the person who wears the wound stripe and wishes to keep wearing the wound stripe will be entitled to do so.  If you trade it in, you wear (or not) the medal from then on.  All the new wounded will get the medal, no choice there... though wearing is still up to you.

Point about PTSD.  I'm fairly certain that if you have PTSD, your doctor who is treating you MUST have your permission to disclose the nature of that injury (Medical confidence and all that) so the only way you will be awarded the Sacrifice Medal for PTSD is if you allow them to know you have it and that you want it.  If your chain of command gets antsy as they sometimes do, I personally would tell them to shove the medal and if they insist mention the privacy act, human rights and doctor/patient confidentiality.  Of course you could always just wig-out and see if they catch the drift.

 

[gwp]

The question is:  If it replaces the Wound Stripe, then why are those who were awarded the Wound Stripe prior to 2001 may not be eligible for the new medal, as it is back dated to October 7, 2001 only?

Not unlike those individuals who were awarded the medal of bravery or star of courage on operations in hostile circumstance in Cyprus (as well as other ops) prior to Jan. 1, 1993 and could not trade them for the medal of miltary valour and star of military valour.

 

[Reccesoldier]

The question is:  If it replaces the Wound Stripe, then why are those who were awarded the Wound Stripe prior to 2001 may not be eligible for the new medal, as it is back dated to October 7, 2001 only?

George, there is a regulation limiting the time frame for exchanges.  I can't remember if it is a directive or contained in QR&O/DAOD's or if it is just by convention, but that is the result.  The reason for it if I recall was with the institution of medals like the CD when Canada started doing things their own way the Government didn't want Vets from 30 years ago applying to have their LSGCM's turned into CD's or what have you.

 

[Infanteer]

Well, if it means anything I asked Grandfather, a recipient of two wound stripes, what he thought of the medal and he said "Oh, that's like the Americans - well that's a lot better for the guys".

 

[medaid]

Heck... If it's good enough for a Vet with 2 stripes, it's good enough for me. I have mixed feelings about this new medal.