Russia's Mistral class LHDs: updates

[tomahawk6]

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20090826/155931865.html

ULAN BATOR, August 26 (RIA Novosti) - Russia is planning on signing by the end of 2009 a contractual agreement with France on the purchase of a Mistral class amphibious assault ship, the chief of the Russian General Staff said on Wednesday.

"We are planning to reach an agreement [with France] this year on the production and the purchase of a Mistral class vessel," Gen. Nikolai Makarov told a news conference in the Mongolian capital, Ulan Bator.

"We are negotiating the purchase of one ship at present, and later planning to acquire 3-4 ships [of the same class] to be jointly built in Russia," the general said.

A Mistral class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 main battle tanks, and 450 soldiers. The vessel is equipped with a 69-bed hospital and could be used as an amphibious command ship.

Makarov did not disclose the amount of the deal, but a high-ranking Russian source close to negotiations earlier said the ship could be worth between 300 and 400 million euros ($430-580 mln).

The purchase, if successful, would be the first large-scale arms import deal concluded by Russia since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Russia first expressed an interest in bilateral cooperation with France in naval equipment and technology in 2008, when Navy chief Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky visited the Euronaval 2008 arms show in France.

The admiral said at the time that the Russian Navy was interested in "joint research and also direct purchases of French naval equipment."

According to other military sources, the possibility of buying a Mistral class amphibious assault ship was discussed at the naval show in St. Petersburg in June this year.

Russia's current weapons procurement program through 2015 does not envision construction or purchases of large combat ships, so the possible acquisition of a French Mistral class ship is most likely to happen under the new program for the years up to 2020, which is still in the development.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

The Russians have also bought Israeli drones as well.

 

[CougarKing]

Seems someone convinced the French Admiralty to allow the ship to be rerouted for a product demonstration?

French ship Russia wants to buy in St Petersburg
AP

The Mistral French amphibious assault ship/helicopter carrier/hospital ship docks on the Neva River in downtown St. Petersburg, Russia, Monday, Nov. 23, 2009, with one of the city landmarks, St. Isaac's Cathedral, in the background. Russia is planning to buy a Mistral-class ship worth 400-500 million euros (around $600-$750 million) from France. Russian Navy and defense industry experts are expected to inspect the ship during the visit. (AP Photo/Dmitry Lovetsky)

By IRINA TITOVA, Associated Press Writer Irina Titova, Associated Press Writer – 2 hrs 52 mins ago

ST. PETERSBURG, Russia – A French amphibious assault ship like the one Russia hopes to buy arrived Monday in St. Petersburg, fueling concern in Georgia and other ex-Soviet nations that Russia is upgrading its navy to intimidate its neighbors.

The Mistral military ship, which can carry more than a dozen helicopters along with dozens of tanks and other armored vehicles, would certainly be a modern way to project Russian power.

It docked Monday on the Neva River, about 1 kilometer (.6 miles) from the Hermitage museum. Russian officials are considering buying a Mistral ship and a license to build several others — their first such purchase from a NATO country.

Media reports have said it would cost Russia up to euro500 million ($750 million) to buy a Mistral-class ship.

NATO officials in Brussels would not comment Monday on the possible French navy sale.

The Kremlin increasingly has sought in recent years to reaffirm Russia's global reach and prestige in world affairs. It has sent its warships to patrol pirate-infested waters off Somalia and dispatched a navy squadron to the Caribbean where it took part in joint maneuvers with the Venezuelan navy and made several port calls in 2008.

The Caribbean mission, aimed at flexing military muscles near the U.S. in the tense months after the war between Russia and Georgia in August 2008, was the most visible Russian navy deployment since Soviet times.

But despite the Kremlin's ambitions, the post-Soviet economic meltdown has left the Russian navy with only a handful of big ships in seaworthy condition and badly crippled the nation's shipbuilding industries.

Russia has only one Soviet-built aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov, which is much smaller than the U.S. aircraft carriers and has been plagued by mechanical problems and accidents.

Russian shipbuilders have opposed the Mistral deal, saying the government should invest in domestic production instead. Navy officials have argued that license production of Mistral-class ships would help modernize Russia's aging industries.

The navy chief, Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky, has said a ship like Mistral would have allowed the Russian navy to mount a much more efficient operation in the Black Sea during the Russia-Georgia war. He said the French ship would take just 40 minutes to do the job that the Russian Black Sea Fleet vessels did in 26 hours, apparently referring to amphibious landing operations.

Georgia was clearly worried about the possible deal.

"We strongly oppose the sale of such ship to Russia," Nika Laliashvili of the Georgian parliament's defense affairs committee told The Associated Press. "It poses a serious danger to Georgia."

Since the 2008 war, Russia has declared the Georgian territory of Abkhazia an independent nation and sent thousands of troops there. Abkhazia has a coastline along the Black Sea that is next to Russia's coast.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091123/ap_on_...rance_navy_ship

 

 

[MarkOttawa]

A post at The Torch:
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2010/02/russians-want-big-honking-french-ships.html

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Danjanou]

Topics merged

D/S

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Stirng the pot  :nod:, we could always buy into the order as well, just think of the money we will save on not having to translate all of the documents to French... ;D

 

[VinceW]

The deal is set Russia is going to buy 4 Mistrals,2 will be built in France the other 2 in Russia,France will get more natural gas from Russia because of this deal.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c18316c8-2599-11df-9bd3-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1

 

[CougarKing]

Russia to receive Mistral with French technologies

Last Updated: Jul 06, 2010

MOSCOW (BNS): Russia is all geared up to procure the Mistral-class assault ships from France with all technology and equipment on it, except the weaponry and helicopters.

According to a news report by RIA Novosti, Russia will equip the ships with its own weaponry and helicopters.

The guns, missiles, torpedoes and helicopters will be made in Russia. Russian shipbuilders will also reinforce the hull for withstanding Arctic ice.

Russia is negotiating the purchase of at least one French-built Mistral class amphibious assault ship and are also planning to build two or three more vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS, the report added.

"We are buying the Mistral warship with all proper navigational and technological equipment, including the fire control systems," a defence industry source was quoted as saying in the news report.

The 21,300 tonne Mistral-class ships operate as helicopter carriers and amphibious assault transports, with secondary capabilities as command ships, and an on-board hospital. Propulsion comes from 2 electric-powered manoeuvrable thruster pods, similar to those used on cruise ships, with 2 more bow thrusters for added manoeuvrability in tight situations.

The 650-foot Mistral is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 armoured vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 personnel.

The Russian Mistral to be deployed by the Northern and Pacific Fleets will be armed with combat helicopters Ka-52.

The Mistral deal is expected to be completed by the end of the year 2010.

source

Mistral LHD

Ka-52

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

One of the beauty of the Mistrals, is that they only require a crew of 160. The rest of the space is then dedicated to the troop, air group and HQ staff as may be embarked. The flexibility is incredible:  You load the air group you need for the task at hand: A group of Griffons if you want to carry out air assault, a group of ASW helos for escort purposes, a group of "attack" helos for anti-piracy ops, etc. Any  landing force can be similarly tailored to the operation.

With ice reinforced hulls, they would be your perfect base of operation for the Arctic, greatly simplifying logistics. And they could be used for disaster relief anywhere fairly easily, and be a lot better at it that n AOR's and DDH/FFH.

Just dreaming - but IMO (I've said it in other threads) scrap the JSS: buy separate AOR's and some LHA's (Mistral style) as Hellyer's "Big Honking Ships".

 

[MarkOttawa]

Oldgateboatdriver: Agree on general idea, but Hillier vice Hellyer I think.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

OOOOUPS!!!

After all these years, still traumatized by what "HELLYER" did to the Navy.

Sorry!

 

[MarkOttawa]

Deal done (via J.M. Heinrichs):

Russia And France Make The Deal
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htamph/articles/20100928.aspx

September 28, 2010: After over a year of negotiations with France, Russia has agreed to buy four Mistral amphibious ships. Two will be built in France, and licensed production of two more will take place in Russia. This licensing aspect of the deal is most important to Russia, as they are demanding the transfer of shipbuilding technology to Russian yards. France was willing to do this, it was mainly a matter of arriving at a mutually acceptable price. Currently, the deal is expected to cost Russia over a billion dollars. Before World War I, Russia often bought French naval technology, and much other military technology. Russia is currently looking beyond its own failing defense industries for new equipment, and ideas.

The French navy received the first of the 21,500 ton Mistrals in 2006, with the second one arriving in 2007. Both were ordered in 2001. These two ships replaced two older amphibious landing ships. This gave France a force of four amphibious ships. The two Mistrals are also equipped to serve as command vessels for amphibious operations. The French have been very happy with how the Mistrals have performed.

The Mistrals are similar in design to the U.S. LPD 17 (San Antonio) class. Both classes are about 200 meters/620 feet long, but the LPD 17s displace 25,000 tons. The French ships are more highly automated, requiring a crew of only 180, versus 396 on the LPD 17. On long voyages on the open ocean, the Mistrals require as few as nine sailors and officers on duty ("standing watch") to keep the ship going.

The Mistrals carry 450 marines, compared to 700 on the LPD 17s. Both have about the same room for helicopters, landing craft and vehicles (2,650 square meters for the Mistrals, room for nearly a hundred trucks, or 60 armored vehicles). Both have hospitals on board, with the Mistrals being larger (69 beds). The American ships, however have more sensors installed, and larger engines (and thus higher speed.) The LPD 17 can also handle vertical takeoff jets like the Harrier or F-35. The French believe that the smaller complement of marines, who are very capable troops, are sufficient for most missions. And the smaller number of people on the ship makes it possible to provide better living and working conditions. This is good for morale and readiness...

The third and fourth Mistrals for the French Navy are being built using more commercial techniques, and are expected to cost closer to $500 million each [emphasis added, cheap compared to our planned JSS]. Russia says it plans to base some of its Mistrals in the Far East, where there is an ongoing dispute with Japan over Japanese islands Russia occupied after World War II, and never gave back.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Colin Parkinson]

One of the beauty of the Mistrals, is that they only require a crew of 160. The rest of the space is then dedicated to the troop, air group and HQ staff as may be embarked. The flexibility is incredible:  You load the air group you need for the task at hand: A group of Griffons if you want to carry out air assault, a group of ASW helos for escort purposes, a group of "attack" helos for anti-piracy ops, etc. Any  landing force can be similarly tailored to the operation.

With ice reinforced hulls, they would be your perfect base of operation for the Arctic, greatly simplifying logistics. And they could be used for disaster relief anywhere fairly easily, and be a lot better at it that n AOR's and DDH/FFH.

Just dreaming - but IMO (I've said it in other threads) scrap the JSS: buy separate AOR's and some LHA's (Mistral style) as Hellyer's "Big Honking Ships".

My heart warmth over on this, Build the hull and main systems there, bring it over here and let the yards finish off the smaller stuff.

 

[Oh No a Canadian]

My heart warmth over on this, Build the hull and main systems there, bring it over here and let the yards finish off the smaller stuff.

Not with Harper in power...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

That's right because Iggy and friends really do care about the military. The CPC may have mucked up the bidding process but we also have Chinooks, C17's and Leopard 2's because of them. I will take the CPC on a bad day over Libs on a good day. Now in my fantasy world the 3 main parties sit down and hash out a defense policy they can all live with or at least the 2 main parties do and agree on what needs to be bought and when. So when government change, the policy and purchasing does not.

 

[Oh No a Canadian]

True, but Harper only seems to be buying those things for the economic benefits, or he just wants people to think that.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Every politician who approves a large defense purchase want to make it seem like a great economic deal for the country. It’s a lot of money being spent and they try to find ways to sweeten the pot. There was no real economic benefit to buying the Leo2’s, the Chinooks and the C17’s may have spinoff benefits from subcontractors getting support contracts.
Economic politics demand that ships be built here, operational, needs, experience, shipyard capacity, costs may indicate that better value is achieved by buying overseas. But the politics may win out if the better decision is going to cost the politicians votes. Welcome to democracy. 

 

[MarkOttawa]

This government is logically shameless--or challenged:

Canadian shipyards can’t competitively build large civilian vessels–but the government insists they build naval ones
http://unambig.com/canadian-shipyards-cant-competitively-build-large-civilian-vessels-but-the-government-insists-they-build-naval-ones/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Edward Campbell]

This government is logically shameless--or challenged:

Canadian shipyards can’t competitively build large civilian vessels–but the government insists they build naval ones
http://unambig.com/canadian-shipyards-cant-competitively-build-large-civilian-vessels-but-the-government-insists-they-build-naval-ones/

Mark
Ottawa

This is very simple, very, very old fashioned pork barrelling and vote buying. They used to set up beer stalls by the voting booths, now they are a wee tiny bit more subtle, albeit a lot more expensive.

Canadians yards can build first rate, modern, sophisticated ships, including warships - they just cannot do it without buying a whole boat load of technology and expertise, at enormous cost. But, hey, a job's a job, right? Gotta keep those Canadian workers on the job and shopping at WalMart. Wouldn't do to let the market decide; this is Canada!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

This is why I opposed buying ferries from overseas for BC Ferries. It is the new builds that finance the purchase of new capital equipment and infrastructure. Our yards out here have a good rep for fast and good quality ship repairs. In order to maintain that edge we need a certain number of new build so the industry can renew itself periodically.