Running: Training, Problems, Techniques, Questions, etc

[paracowboy]

Here is a question then.

If stretching is a bad thing, then what else can someone, who is just starting out their training, do to prevent injuries, such as the tight, painful muscles, the side cramps and such?

as I said: do some light exercise first, to get blood into the muscles, flush lactic acid from them, and basically "warm up". Then take 10 - 20 minutes to stretch slowly. Then exercise strenuously.

Or, alternatively, simply start exercising slowly, easing into it, and progressively push the limits. Afterwards, stretch thoroughly.

It's not a bad idea to schedule a 30 minute stretching regimen everyday, as well. Pick a TV show that mildly sucks (they almost all do, so it won't be hard), and begin stretching when it starts. By the time the laughtrack has ended, you should have stretched every bodypart.

 

[paracowboy]

Ah, okay, now I understand what you were getting at.

Thank you.

no problem. The annoying part is that I covered this in greater detail, and plainer English, in the first post of this thread:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33109.0.html

The truly annoying part is that I posted a reference to that thread earlier in this thread.

 

[KID]

I have another question for you guys!​

I get incredible pain in my knees after even the shortest period standing at attention or on parade. It only happens when I'm wearing combat boots, i never get knee pain when in regular civi shoes, i can stand for hours. But stand me for a little while in combat boots and will have pain in my knees all night, sometimes i still feel it the next morning. hopefully someone can shed some light on this or has had a similar problem who can tell me how the resolved this. (p.s. i am bow-legged, maybe that's the source of my discomfort)

 

[George Wallace]

Actually, even in you civie shoes/boots, if you were to stand for a long period at Attention, you may find the same results.  How often have you stood for a long period of time at Attention, other than on parade?

 

[GO!!!]

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but....

I would just suck it up.

Many things in the military are painful, and just require some getting used to.

Wait and see if it still bothers you in a year.

 

[ZipperHead]

I'm not sure if sucking it up is going to help Kid when he's 40 years old and can barely walk. What I wish I knew when I was 19 that I know now.....

Think about going to a physiotherapist, or perhaps a chiropractor. There is a good chance that your body doesn't like the position it is being forced to adopt (i.e standing at attention). Perhaps with orthotics or rehab/exercises you can nip this particular affliction in the bud, before you are crippled by it.

I spent too long "sucking it up" with the pieces of sh1t that are the MkIII combat boot. I finally got Vibram soles put on them, and got orthotics. That, along with the proper exercises, and proper posture (don't lock your knees all the way back when standing (aka hyperextension..... always have a bit of bend in them.... this goes for all the time, not just standing at attention) have helped me deal with the death by a thousand cuts that is military service. Sure I have pain, but not chronic debilitating pain.

If you do all that, and you still have pain, see Go!!!'s post prior to this for his advice  ;D

Al

P.S I am not a Dr (maybe a Dr of looooooove (as said by Barry White  8) ), or a therapist, so don't go on my advice alone. See someone who does this for a living.

 

[paracowboy]

you say you're bow-legged? In that case, you may pronate heavily, which could be causing the pain, and leading to small injuries will accumulate over time. Go see a physio-dude. If he deems it necessary, you may be sent to be tested for orthotics.

or he may tell you to suck it up. Listen to Al, he's right. Talk to a professional.

 

[KID]

Well, the thing about standing in civi shoes i mean, like, i can go to the mall and walk around for long periods of time or stand in line, etc, but even spening a night at the drill hall kills my knees. As for the "sucking it up" I'm not one to complain, but it's not like I'm posting this after the first occurance, it has been several months now and the pain is only getting worse.

Thanks for the advice, I'll look into making an appointment with a specialist....maybe I'll see "GO!!!" there when he's done being a tough guy and crippling arthritis gets beyond the point of sucking it up

 

[GO!!!]

According to your profile you are a reservist, and only have to stand on Pde what, 30 mins a week?

If you are a Foot Guard, go see a specialist and get some orthotic insoles - those suckers do alot of standing around. If you are just griping about something unpleasant, refer to my first post muffin.

Nothing good comes easy.

 

[ZipperHead]

KID, I think you are venturing into an area that you don't want to. GO!!!! is giving you his advice. Accept, or don't.

GO!!!! was pointing out that you are on parade a limited amount of time, so your body probably isn't used to it. Don't take my advice (based on my experiences and observations) and play poke-chest with somebody who has vastly more than you do (GO!!!!). There's a saying about writing cheques with your mouth.......

Sometimes things will hurt, and nothing can be done about it, and at that point one must suck it up. But if that pain can be minimized, via equipment, training, exercise, etc go for it. But there isn't always a magic pill that can be taken. Again, see a professional, not an anonymous stranger on a forum. More bad advice has been given in places like this than anywhere else. But there has also been a lot of good advice. It's a question of sorting the wheat from the chafe.

Al

 

[KID]

Well, I agree with your post Al, for the most part anyways. You guys don't seem to realize that, although parades with my unit don't last long, field ex's and evenings at the unit do. Standing around in those boots for hours on end kill my knees. And once again, i will repeat that i know the difference between pain and discomfort, and in my books, this has long surpassed the discomfort zone. Throughout my courses and time in, i have not ever complained to anyone about any pain...believe me or don't, I have nothing to gain from lying on the internet, but I figured maybe I could ask you guys for some advice and clearly i wouldn't post something if it was just "mild discomfort" and i figured you guys would know better than to think i was complaining because my socks were itchy....I stand corrected.

As for GO!!!, I agree he seems like a very smart guy who knows what he's doing and alot of things about this line of work, but I figured my post would be welcomed a little more openly than "suck it up muffin" or something of the sort. This is just the internet boys and you have nothing to gain by being a hard a** all the time. And if I didnt make it clear enough that this is serious pain then you should just say so instead of dropping the "suck it up bomb" on me....I've been waiting for months now to see if my body would get over it, and I wouldn't just run to post this if it was a first time occurance. So why not be a little more open and helpfull. It is the soldier's duty to keep his body in good shape and take care of himself so I don't see how sucking it up makes anyone a good soldier, some injuries (not discomforts) can progress so quickly and to such a state that you have to pull out and you are no longer able to serve your country, now I ask you, does a real dedicated soldier "suck it up" (I realise in times of war and other operational duties, sucking it up can mean life or death, failure or success, but this is not my situation right now, and there is no reason I shouldn't keep my body in a good state of health and readiness)

As for the "sometimes things with hurt, and nothing can be done about it" well, i agree with that, but in my case,  I don't know if something can be done or not so i came here to see if maybe you guys knew of something that could help me out, instead i got treated like a softy...

And go, you were right about something "Nothing good comes easy" ....but nothing good comes by making things harder for yourself either...

 

[ZipperHead]

KID, when you post a simplistic message (I am having pains standing in combat boots), and have the profile that you do (18 yrs old, in the Reserves), you will get simplistic replies (suck it up, watch and shoot, see an MO, etc).

When your response to answers that you don't like is 3 times longer than the original post, maybe that goes to show that you could have explained your circumstances in a little more detail. And keeping in mind that GO!!! was in uniform while you were still in liquid form, give him the latitude to give a bit of "tough love" to someone that perceives may be looking for an easy way out for something. Also keep in mind, this is an open forum, and it's open season on any post you make here, and the answers will range from the ridiculous to the sublime. Having a thick skin helps (though try telling somebody that... myself included).

You get what you pay for. If you ask gruff army guys for advice, expect gruff advice, because that is what we got in your place, 5, 10, 50, 150 years ago. The School of Hard Knocks has had a lot of pupils, and sometimes you have to learn something the hard way. If you don't understand how much something can suck (see: MkIII combat boots), you can't appreciate that a nice Gucci pair of Matterhorns or Danners is soooooooo much better (for me anyways). You are a Pte. You are 18. Expect things to be difficult. When you are a wise Cpl (and have learned whose advice to take), remember the advice you were given: be gruff, or be kind. The choice is yours. Sometimes one approach works better than the other, but one approach will never work in all cases. Trust me.

Al

 

[GO!!!]

I guess I just see things differently, although I have much respect for rank and experience (time-in including) but this is still the internet, there's no reason in being gruff. If I was ignorant enough to take the "suck it up" advice, it wouldn't be your problem when I'm 55 and have to walk with a walker or have to pay for expensive surgery and medication...it won't affect you and it will only be my problem. So why not give sensible and positive advice instead of giving young soldiers advice that will only lead them to breaking themselves down.

And I can tell you one thing, when I am a wise corporal, as you referred to it, my approach, gruff or kind, I will always look out for the health and well-being of the young guns. Human being has the gift of reason, and I will be able to use it when a young member will approach me with any type of problem, I will not tell anyone to "suck it up" because in my view, that is just a bold example of poor leadership.

This is not meant to offend anyone, it is simply my view on the subject and is not directed to anyone specific.

Thank you for anyone who provided me with the best advice they could give.

KID

There is no injury sustainable from standing still that will have any long term effects. (I checked). So you can lose the melodramatic "when I'm 55..." More likely, your pain is based in poor muscle tone in the areas used to stand at attention, or you are simply unaccustomed to it. If your boots hurt your feet, welcome to the club, ensure that they are broken in properly, that you have appropriate insoles and socks and have them resoled if you so desire.

"Sensible and positive" is not what armies are traditionally associated with, as young men (who comprise armies) respond just as well (often better) to a stern talking to and a kick in the ass. You might have been special elsewhere, but this type of training and people management has worked since roman times, so whether or not you "see a reason" be assured that it does exist. You will also undoubtedly discover that there will be times in your military career when you will encounter severe discomfort and you will have to soldier through it - even if it is painful. Don't be scared, winners  just don't quit.

At 18, and as a reservist, the likelihood of you "breaking yourself down" is slim, especially in garrison. Everyone I know in the army has experience service related pain, myself included, and no - on likes standing at attention, it just takes some getting used to, perhaps you should consider a less physically demanding line of work.

You are perhaps the least qualified individual to comment on what is and is not an example of poor leadership, but I for one have seen dozens of Privates whining about everything from their toenails to their hair to get out of a parade, exercise, tasking etc. Often all they need is an "attitude reorientation" to help them prioritze. Even more common today is the private with a pocket full of chits that forbid saluting, carrying anything, running etc. So you are in esteemed company already, if you are incapable of standing in one place.

When you are a Cpl, you will undoubtedly be put in a leadership position at some point. Then you will have the option of being "positive and understanding" when some young private tells you that he "just can't do another patrol, because the C6 is heavy, and I have'nt eaten or slept in days, and my feet hurt, and I have a splinter...." You will see that the people who were always on chit in garrison are completely useless in the field, and you will dump them out of your section in a heartbeat, after a few vigourous "councilling" sessions.

I consider people who are unable to deal with the "rigours" of garrison to be a bold example of who will not be able to perform in the field.

This is not meant to offend anyone, it is simply my view on the subject and is not directed to anyone specific. 

Have a good one.

 

[ZipperHead]

but this type of training and people management has worked since roman times, so whether or not you "see a reason" be assured that it does exist

GO!!!, no truer words have been spoken. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

KID, you may want to absorb some of GO!!!'s advice before you say something rash. Old age and treachery will always beat out youth and vigour (i.e GO!!! or I can easily find out who you are... it is a small military after all, and the DIN (Defence Information Network.... military intranet) makes it even smaller). You are accountable for what you say here, regardless of what some people seem to think.

It's always nice to think that you are going to do something, or be something, different than a given example. That is called a perfect world. Wait until it happens, and then see. As an NCO, and as a parent, I have fallen back on ways that I would sooner not, but at the time, they seemed to be the right thing to do, and more often than not, they were. But, as GO!!! said, you are perhaps the least qualified person here to say anything about what is, or isn't good leadership. I guarantee you that when you are put into a position of leadership, you will make mistakes. Napoleon made them. Patton made them. Rommel made them. Making mistakes isn't wrong: failure to learn from mistakes (yours and/or others) is what is wrong.

Now that the leadership tip of the day is put to bed, think about what GO!!!, and I, and others have said to you. Analyze the thoughts. Process it in your hamburger-fed computer (yer brain), and then draw your own conclusion. It is, after all, your body, so do what you must. If you are going to learn anything, learn to listen to your body, but also be able to ignore your body when it is telling you to stop, when the end of the march is still 10km away. That's where suck-it-up becomes the order of the day.

I think you wanted a simple answer to a simple question, but life is never that simple. You probably wanted to hear "Take supplement X!!! It will make all the pain go away!!". Or "Do this stretch for 2 minutes per day for 3 days". Lord knows I wish it were that easy, but it never is. I went to physio a few weeks back because my knee was killing me (thank god for the walk in "satellite" physio clinic at the base gym here in Gagetown..... no Dr referal, rarely a line-up.... heaven!!!!), and was hoping to hear that all I needed was a fancy bandage, or to double my glucosamine sulphate intake (read up on this supplement.....), but no, I need to work on my muscle strength for a particular muscle, and avoid hyper-extending my knee when standing (now I know, after all these years.....). No pill. No easy road. But it is feeling better. So, after all the round-and-round, it comes back to this: go see a professional. What worked for me, or GO!!!!, or your Aunt Suzy probably won't work (except maybe Aunt Suzy's estrogen therapy .... if you want breasts, that is).

Remember, life is much too serious to be taken seriously....

Al

 

[KID]

....first of all, I have no chits, I want no chits, and if they want to try and limit my participation in regimental activities I would say nevermind, forget about it. I joined a "team" and theres nothing more I want than to participate and be a part of the team. Explain to me why posting a question on the internet is an attempt to get out of work? I already told you, I am not looking for a way out of work, I pull my own weight and do my best to pull the weight of others, who are unable, or refuse to pull their own. If I really wanted to escape from duty I would go complain to my section comander or something, that's why I didn't take it up with someone at the unit, I figured I could discretely ask a question here, get some answers and fix my problem without bringing it to the attention of anyone at the unit. All I wanted to get out of this was an answer, not a chit, not any special treatment, and especially not to be told I should consider another line of work.

Second of all,I have no problem with strict rules and discipline, a good leader needs to have a backbone, and you people seem to have one. Although he or she, as a leader, needs to be strict, stern, and take no bulls**t, it is another thing to neglect the well being of his or her troops. In case you might of missed it (during your search), footwear is the leading cause in backpain, bad posture as well as knee problems. I'm not sure where you checked, but I'd like to have a look at your sources.

As I have already stated, this pain arises whenever I wear those boots, not only standing at attention. I realise standing at attention is not the most comfortable thing in the world and I can deal with it just like anyone else so that is not even the issue here.

(By the way: my boots are properly broken in, they do not hurt my feet...)
KID

 

[visitor]

Hmm for a "kid" he sounds pretty articulate and mature and I did not not detect a  request for an easy solution, merely a request for feedback. I agree with the  advice to see a physiotherapist or podiatrist (probably both) to get some custom made orthotics (as opposed to computer generated ones) and review muscle and joint  imbalance and strain.  I would also comment that an aquaintance of mine who has had extensive experience hiking all day for weeks on end with a heavy pack  (in all sorts of crappy weather and walking through streams and snow) has  commented that, in boot camp  his CF boots are not good and that he is having foot problems, where there were none with his own personal boots previously in years of trips.  Incidentally, he is finding the PT easy, otherwise. He is dealing with it, but has experience with it and it not a 18 year old kid.

 

[ZipperHead]

I know that this is going to take the thread even more off topic (but is still related), but it is my conviction that the CF should INVEST the money, and assess every soldier as to whether or not they need orthotics, as part of basic training. The Americans do something similar (I have been told, to assess for what type of running shoes they should have). To me, prevention will cost much less in the long run, than trying to cure all these problems down the road.

To go along with this, the need to have a range of different boots styles (again, a la the US) available for soldiers to wear would also PREVENT problems from occurring. Looking at boots from an aesthetic point of view only is going to continue to cripple people. I know very little about the new Temperate weather boot, but I hope that it has been looked at from a medical (orthopedic) point of view, specification-wise. Otherwise, it is a wasted effort. There are MANY existing boots that the companies (Danner, Corcoran, Matterhorn, etc) have dumped vast amounts of R&D money into to just ignore.

Al

 

[Temoid]

To people saying that one must run before eating/2 hours after a meal to avoid stitches:
I was under the influence that running without at least a little food (especially in the morning where you have't eaten anything for 6-8 hours) is detrimental to ones' health. Ideas?

 

[GO!!!]

To people saying that one must run before eating/2 hours after a meal to avoid stitches:
I was under the influence that running without at least a little food (especially in the morning where you have't eaten anything for 6-8 hours) is detrimental to ones' health. Ideas?

This is probably based in the fact that your body consumes a large amount of protein for muscle repair and reconstruction in the 60 mins after you exercise. If you have an empty stomach, it will cannibalise unused muscle to repair the ones you used, as muscle is the most easily metabolised tissue in the body. Also, if you have'nt eaten in awhile, your blood sugar levels will be low, so you likely will not feel too peppy while working out anyway.

So it is not BAD for you, but is rather counterproductive.

Personally, I believe the six cigarettes and XL triple triple I suck back on my way to work are far more detrimental than my empty stomach, but fortunately, I'm bulletproof  Your results may vary.

 

[Temoid]

Is there a light snack in the morning before running then( basic)? Or does the drill instructor just make you do it as soon as you get out of bed?