Royal Canadian Air Force headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general

[Humphrey Bogart]

An official tweet on a capability that might be welcome in Mali by MINUSMA:
https://twitter.com/CFOperations/status/922557801507049472

July 2016:

Pity they might actually end up killing people, eh Justin?

Mark
Ottawa

No Pac4's on the door weapons, interesting.

 

[MilEME09]

No Pac4's on the door weapons, interesting.

Didn't notice that at first, can the pac4 be seen on thermal? I thought they were more for night ops, in which case I would assume that our heli's are grounded at night?

 

[daftandbarmy]

An official tweet on a capability that might be welcome in Mali by MINUSMA:
https://twitter.com/CFOperations/status/922557801507049472

July 2016:

Pity they might actually end up killing people, eh Justin?

Mark
Ottawa

In general, Western politicians (and their countrymen) aren't very good at 'Arithmetic on the Frontier':


Arithmetic on the Frontier

by Rudyard Kipling

A GREAT and glorious thing it is
To learn, for seven years or so,
The Lord knows what of that and this,
Ere reckoned fit to face the foe -
The flying bullet down the Pass,
That whistles clear: "All flesh is grass."

Three hundred pounds per annum spent
On making brain and body meeter
For all the murderous intent
Comprised in "villainous saltpetre".
And after?- Ask the Yusufzaies
What comes of all our 'ologies.

A scrimmage in a Border Station-
A canter down some dark defile
Two thousand pounds of education
Drops to a ten-rupee jezail.
The Crammer's boast, the Squadron's pride,
Shot like a rabbit in a ride!

No proposition Euclid wrote
No formulae the text-books know,
Will turn the bullet from your coat,
Or ward the tulwar's downward blow.
Strike hard who cares - shoot straight who can
The odds are on the cheaper man.

One sword-knot stolen from the camp
Will pay for all the school expenses
Of any Kurrum Valley scamp
Who knows no word of moods and tenses,
But, being blessed with perfect sight,
Picks off our messmates left and right.

With home-bred hordes the hillsides teem.
The troopships bring us one by one,
At vast expense of time and steam,
To slay Afridis where they run.
The "captives of our bow and spear"
Are cheap, alas! as we are dear.


http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_arith.htm

 

[Good2Golf]

No Pac4's on the door weapons, interesting.

PAQ-4s are crap, almost 10x less power than a PEQ-2, which is what should be on the C6.

MilEME09, both the PAQ-4 and PEQ-2 are 830 nanometer (0.83 micron) wavelength, which is too close to visible to be seen on TI.  TI usually is out at 8 to 12 microns, or 8,000 to 12,000 nanometers.  Even mid-IR at 3-5micron won't 'see' a 0.83 micron beam.  NVDs/NVGs will see the PAQs/PEQs, because they usually have a pass filter that can see up to" around 1.063 micron (sometimes hear 1063 nanometers), which is the same frequency as laser target designators.

Cheers
G2G

 

[daftandbarmy]

PAQ-4s are crap, almost 10x less power than a PEQ-2, which is what should be on the C6.

MilEME09, both the PAQ-4 and PEQ-2 are 830 nanometer (0.83 micron) wavelength, which is too close to visible to be seen on TI.  TI usually is out at 8 to 12 microns, or 8,000 to 12,000 nanometers.  Even mid-IR at 3-5micron won't 'see' a 0.83 micron beam.  NVDs/NVGs will see the PAQs/PEQs, because they usually have a pass filter that can see up to" around 1.063 micron (sometimes hear 1063 nanometers), which is the same frequency as laser target designators.

Cheers
G2G

Need. Infantry. Translation.  :camo:

 

[OldSolduer]

Need. Infantry. Translation.  :camo:

.

Small words. Short sentences.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

PAQ-4s are crap, almost 10x less power than a PEQ-2, which is what should be on the C6.

MilEME09, both the PAQ-4 and PEQ-2 are 830 nanometer (0.83 micron) wavelength, which is too close to visible to be seen on TI.  TI usually is out at 8 to 12 microns, or 8,000 to 12,000 nanometers.  Even mid-IR at 3-5micron won't 'see' a 0.83 micron beam.  NVDs/NVGs will see the PAQs/PEQs, because they usually have a pass filter that can see up to" around 1.063 micron (sometimes hear 1063 nanometers), which is the same frequency as laser target designators.

Cheers
G2G

Thanks G2G!  I'm not up on the latest in the laser designation world.  Just surprised they had no night fighting kit.

.

Small words. Short sentences.

Basically, so they can shoot at night with NVGs using an infrared designator.  Think laser beam similar to the Paq4 you would attach to a rifle that can be seen through your nvg. 

 

[Good2Golf]

PAQ-4 = Boulet.

PEQ-2 = Lowa

 

[Loachman]

Just surprised they had no night fighting kit.

...installed during daylight hours.

After dark may be different.

I am not sure about current mission details.

 

[tomahawk6]

More info has come out on this mission and its classic mission creep.The original patrol was just that a patrol,then higher thought hey there is a HVT in the AO,lets send in the patrol to get him. The patrol was spotted and then the local elders tried to delay them as much as possible. After leaving they run into the ambush. There remains  the question of why the one hour delay for the patrol to request support ? The French responded with 2 Mirage fighters and a ground element of French special forces.Additional US SF arrived soon after and the wounded were evaced and the search for the MIA was launched. We have alot to learn from the French on how to fight in Africa.

 

[PuckChaser]

Do you have a link for that extra info?

 

[daftandbarmy]

More info has come out on this mission and its classic mission creep.The original patrol was just that a patrol,then higher thought hey there is a HVT in the AO,lets send in the patrol to get him. The patrol was spotted and then the local elders tried to delay them as much as possible. After leaving they run into the ambush. There remains  the question of why the one hour delay for the patrol to request support ? The French responded with 2 Mirage fighters and a ground element of French special forces.Additional US SF arrived soon after and the wounded were evaced and the search for the MIA was launched. We have alot to learn from the French on how to fight in Africa.

Overweening ambition can take more lives than the enemy in some of these fights, sadly. Some rules to live by:

Never fight fair. Or on your own. That usually means fighting like the locals.

Never stick your own neck out when you can get a local to do it for you.

If it's worth hitting with a hammer, hit it with a really, really big hammer.

Keep one pocket full of candies to keep the kids hanging around so you can get information while making it less likely that they'll shoot at you. Keep some pepper in your other pocket for the dogs.

When in doubt, chicken out.

 

[tomahawk6]

Unfortunately we keep making the same mistake in Africa with regard to mission creep.I think its arrogance as a substitute for sticking to tactics. The bad guys know the terrain and have local support,we enjoy neither in parts of the AO anyway.A patrol like that should have had drone coverage and a QRF. Of course if you wait an hour to call for help thats part of the problem.In An urban setting like we faced in Mogadishu chasing after HVT's caused the whole fiasco in the first place.We either have to bide our time to grab a target or just take the target out with a drone as we have done in Syria and Afghanistan.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Unfortunately we keep making the same mistake in Africa with regard to mission creep.I think its arrogance as a substitute for sticking to tactics. The bad guys know the terrain and have local support,we enjoy neither in parts of the AO anyway.A patrol like that should have had drone coverage and a QRF. Of course if you wait an hour to call for help thats part of the problem.In An urban setting like we faced in Mogadishu chasing after HVT's caused the whole fiasco in the first place.We either have to bide our time to grab a target or just take the target out with a drone as we have done in Syria and Afghanistan.

Exactly. Someone in AFRICOM needs to be told 'you're fired'

 

[Old Sweat]

To my mind, there are too many inconsistencies in the narrative, but one thing does come through: the affair was not up to a standard in planning and execution one would expect from special forces with or without the "O" word added.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Unfortunately we keep making the same mistake in Africa with regard to mission creep.I think its arrogance as a substitute for sticking to tactics. The bad guys know the terrain and have local support,we enjoy neither in parts of the AO anyway.A patrol like that should have had drone UAV/RPA/UAS coverage and a QRF. Of course if you wait an hour to call for help thats part of the problem. In An urban setting like we faced in Mogadishu chasing after HVT's caused the whole fiasco in the first place.We either have to bide our time to grab a target or just take the target out with a drone UAV/RPA/UAS as we have done in Syria and Afghanistan.

FTFY

 

[OldSolduer]

To my mind, there are too many inconsistencies in the narrative, but one thing does come through: the affair was not up to a standard in planning and execution one would expect from special forces with or without the "O" word added.

The good idea fairy strikes again.

 

[MilEME09]

Ottawa apparently out of touch with what the UN wants.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-un-peacekeeping-summit-contributions-1.4375711

Canadian peacekeeping proposals out of line with UN priorities: sources

Canada has been discussing peacekeeping contribution ideas with the United Nations for months, but sources tell CBC News many of the proposals Ottawa has presented aren't considered by the UN to be operational priorities — or even necessary.

The latest talks are being held just weeks before Canada hosts an international peacekeeping summit and more than a year after Ottawa first pledged up to 600 Canadian Armed Forces personnel and 150 police officers toward global peace operations.

But with the conference looming, even the UN isn't clear on how the country will contribute.

''It would be very awkward for anyone to host a ministerial meeting on peacekeeping without having made a real contribution to peacekeeping,'' said one UN official, who spoke to CBC News on condition of anonymity.

It's expected that most of those details will be unveiled either right before or at the two-day UN peacekeeping summit in Vancouver which begins on Nov. 14. More than 80 countries, including some 50 defence ministers, have so far confirmed their presence at the conference where Canada will also launch an initiative aimed at preventing the recruitment and use of child soldiers.

Gender parity will be a focus of the international gathering, as will ''capability gaps that need to be filled, such as rapid deployment, helicopters and francophone units'' a UN report says. South Sudan, Mali and Haiti are listed as missions currently dealing with critical gaps.

How will Canada contribute?

Several peacekeeping scenarios have been put forward by Ottawa, according to UN officials familiar with the talks.

One involves the offer of a C-130 Hercules to the UN's logistics hub in Entebbe, Uganda. The military aircraft could be used to help transport personnel and equipment to and from missions in South Sudan, Democratic Republic of Congo and possibly Somalia. Ottawa is also looking at capacity-building and training for peacekeepers, such as countering the threat from improvised explosive devices (IEDs).

The UN seems less enthusiastic about some of the other options Ottawa is mulling, including helicopters for the mission in Haiti which other countries, including Bangladesh, have already offered, said another UN source.

The same UN source says a Canadian proposal for a rapid response force for the UN mission in Golan Heights isn't a priority right now, but were Canada to offer a rapidly-deployable infantry force that could help in the Central African Republic ''we would be happy with that."
Major need in Mali

Another country the UN considers a priority is Mali — but the peacekeeping operation there has the highest-number of fatalities of any current peacekeeping mission, a growing terrorist threat and a peace accord that the country is struggling to implement, which makes it an unattractive option for  decision-makers in Ottawa.

Mahamat Saleh Annadif, head of the UN stabilization mission in Mali (MINUSMA), has said he would welcome Canadian peacekeepers "with open arms."

Canada's contribution could involve multi-year commitments and in the case of Mali might only begin in 2019 after Germany and Jordan end their mandates in the West African country.

One of the UN sources says Canada has been asked to consider deploying personnel and equipment to Timbuktu.

''We'll see. I don't know if that message will be heard or not," the UN source said.

The UN and allies have been urging Canada to consider Mali, a country Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan visited in 2016.

''There were even rumours the next force commander might be a Canadian,'' said a third UN official, who was in Mali when Sajjan was there. The defence minister took part in several security briefings which the official said may have contributed to a reluctance to deploy.

If Ottawa does commit to the Mali operation, Canada's contribution could include the deployment of six Griffon and Chinook helicopters.

The peacekeeping summit in Vancouver is part of a push launched by the Obama administration in 2015 to get countries with more advanced soldiers and equipment into the field. It's paid off, but has also presented challenges as some countries have been reluctant to engage in high-risk operations.

''None of them want to risk losing a soldier,'' the official said, without suggesting this was the case with Canada.

Focus on child soldiers

Ahead of the Vancouver meeting, Canada has written to UN member states requesting they sign on to a set of 17 principles aimed at preventing the recruitment and use of child soldiers. The initiative, called the Vancouver Principles, was developed in co-ordination with the Roméo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative and ''the child protection community,'' according to the Canadian letter.

''Children associated with armed forces or armed groups are often exposed to horrific violence — often forced both to witness and commit violence, while themselves being abused, exploited, injured, or even killed as a result,'' says an explainer accompanying the note, and a draft of the non-binding resolution.

It goes on to say that the principles could be put to work in several ways, including training for peacekeepers on how to interact with a child soldier, liaising with schools and orphanages to help prevent abductions, and adjusting patrol routes to include areas where at-risk children are known to live and play.

 

[McG]

I have not seen any discussion on the announcements from the peacekeeping conference in Vancouver, and I am away from home with only a smart phone to view the world.  Did the government actually say we would provide attack helicopters (if yes, does that mean we are buying attack helicopters), or did CBC apply some artistic licence? 

 

[dapaterson]

I have not seen any discussion on the announcements from the peacekeeping conference in Vancouver, and I am away from home with only a smart phone to view the world.  Did the government actually say we would provide attack helicopters (if yes, does that mean we are buying attack helicopters), or did CBC apply some artistic licence?

Griffons with GAUs meet the definition of attack helicopters, apparently.