Rolling Stone Embeds with the Taliban

[the 48th regulator]

Very good point! I have not considered this point, and you make a very good case. With this i mind I will have to change definitions, as you are correct that turning it into a job is still dehumanization. What is a good term then? What I am trying to argue against is the unneeded demonization of the enemy as an inhuman, almost animal-like entity needing to be eliminated.  48th regulator you are correct, what I am promulgating is indeed dehumanization. With that in mind, would anyone like to speak up about a good term for what I am trying to project?

-C/D

Much like our duty as soldiers, it not our job to question the mission.

Well before someone becomes a soldier, they must understand that the ultimate sacrifice that our country asks us is not only to sacrifice our lives, but that we will be asked to sacrifice the lives of others. Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously (1).  These feelings should come to you, when you decide to make the effort to join the military.  Knowing full well my explanation of the sacrifice asked by us as soldiers, one cannot go forward and join, and expect not to perform the act of killing.

Canada offers many others methods of service, for those that wish to help a nation, and not want to perform the act of fighting and terminating lives.  Unfortunately, one can not join the military, and live in an idea that they will never have to dehumanize an enemy, and perform the ultimate act of terminating their life.

So basically, I feel there is no other way you can phrase your belief.  Soldiers cannot have a Cognitive-Dissonance during the service of a country, when fighting a war.

dileas

tess

 

[Shamrock]

With that in mind, would anyone like to speak up about a good term for what I am trying to project?

Actually, I'd like to ask at what point during your training has your enemy been demonized, or for that manner, even dehumanized.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

+1 Shamrock.


Surely training in the Laws of Armed Conflict should prevent any 'dehumanization'.

Cog-Diss, you are putting WAY too much thought into your trade, 031 I believe? Are you going to pause and segue into some philosophical pycho-babble when you should be running your enemy through with a bayonet???

 

[Fusaki]

Are you going to pause and segue into some philosophical pycho-babble when you should be running your enemy through with a bayonet???

I somehow doubt he'll ever find himself in that situation, or a situation even remotely near it, anyways... :

 

[TheHead]

So I have corresponded with Mr Rosen in a few emails. I will say that the comments he made on that website Tomahawk are confirmed to be his. He does clarify though what did happen at that check point.  So once I gain permission from him to reproduce the email I Will.

Thanks.

 

[1feral1]

"Actually, I'd like to ask at what point during your training has your enemy been demonized, or for that manner, even dehumanized."


It hasn't.

Remember who you are talking to, and the key word is with this individual is "AGENDA".

Thats obvious.

: ; and op:

OWDU

 

[PAT-Platoon]

Actually, I'd like to ask at what point during your training has your enemy been demonized, or for that manner, even dehumanized.

Plenty of times I have heard the terms "Haji" and "Raghead" in regards to the Taliban and other enemy insurgents in Afghanistan. Not to mention the context in which was spoken about the Taliban is always a demonized version, of horribly mutilating them and of other disgusting acts. I understand that many will feel hatred towards an enemy, I just wish it wasn't so prevalent and we viewed it more as a job we have to do, instead of a privilege that many seem to find in killing.

-C/D

 

[Shamrock]

Plenty of times I have heard the terms "Haji" and "Raghead" in regards to the Taliban and other enemy insurgents in Afghanistan.

After a breather, I'm prepared to address this individual.

As an institution, the Canadian Forces neither practices nor encourages the dehumanisation in any form of its 'customers.'  We regularly practice our rules of engagement - be they generic or shopping venue specific - to ensure we use the appropriate level of customer appreciation to the scenario; yes, this sometimes require us to return our customers to sender.  We all are also required to be very familiar with the Geneva Conventions as we must do more than ensure customer satisfaction, we must sure it is done in accordance with international law.  All soldiers are also required to be at least passingly familiar with the Canadian Military Ethos.

These values all should have been imparted to you during BMQ; they are key elements to service.  That you so casually overlook them suggests you have completely failed to internalize any sort of military values.  Why would that be?

 

[1feral1]

instead of a privilege that many seem to find in killing.

-C/D

A privilege??

For the record, in our line of work violence is business, its never taken personally.

Cog Dis, you have achieved a new high in low! I hope you are happy.

Your post is absolutely clueless, you've been no where, baseless and one of the most 'thick' posts yet.

You do really have issues and an OPEN agenda.

You are confirming yet again that you are a TROLL with a capital T and a disgrace to all those who have served.

Shame on you.

Truly again disgusted,

OWDU
Veteran

EDITed for clarity

 

[Franko]

Plenty of times I have heard the terms "Haji" and "Raghead" in regards to the Taliban and other enemy insurgents in Afghanistan. Not to mention the context in which was spoken about the Taliban is always a demonized version, of horribly mutilating them and of other disgusting acts. I understand that many will feel hatred towards an enemy, I just wish it wasn't so prevalent and we viewed it more as a job we have to do, instead of a privilege that many seem to find in killing.

-C/D

After seeing what they have done here:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081112/afghanistan_girls_081113/20081113?hub=SEAfghanistan

I can't believe that you are still going on and on adnaseum. Almost borderline trolling.

You obviously have never been in a fire fight and have to "close with and destroy the enemy."

I suggest that if you are seeking join up and go on tour, you join something that will keep you far away from the battle field.

I don't think, IMHO, you will have the stomach for it.

Regards

 

[George Wallace]

Plenty of times I have heard the terms "Haji" and "Raghead" in regards to the Taliban and other enemy insurgents in Afghanistan. Not to mention the context in which was spoken about the Taliban is always a demonized version, of horribly mutilating them and of other disgusting acts. I understand that many will feel hatred towards an enemy, I just wish it wasn't so prevalent and we viewed it more as a job we have to do, instead of a privilege that many seem to find in killing.

-C/D

I'm sorry.  From now on I will always refer to the enemy; you know those guys who go around throwing acid on little Schoolgirls or blowing up IEDs in crowded markets, as those very nice people who live next door.  You know; they meek little guys who wouldn't hurt a fly.  The guys who would never pick up a gun, or any weapon, in anger.  

Yeah!  Sure!

I think you are living in a very fuzzy wuzzy fantasy world.  Get REAL.   :

 

[Fusaki]

You mean it's not a privilege to scrub <a href=http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/afghanistan/afghan101.htm#P67_654>these guys</a> off the face of the earth?

The way I see it, I've been given a gift: LAV Gunnery. I feel privileged to have used my gift to make the world a better place.

 

[RCR Grunt]

You mean it's not a privilege to scrub <a href=http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/afghanistan/afghan101.htm#P67_654>these guys</a> off the face of the earth?

The way I see it, I've been given a gift: LAV Gunnery. I feel privileged to have used my gift to make the world a better place.

Canadian Forces, making the world a better place 25mm's at a time!

 

[2 Cdo]

Plenty of times I have heard the terms "Haji" and "Raghead" in regards to the Taliban and other enemy insurgents in Afghanistan. Not to mention the context in which was spoken about the Taliban is always a demonized version, of horribly mutilating them and of other disgusting acts. I understand that many will feel hatred towards an enemy, I just wish it wasn't so prevalent and we viewed it more as a job we have to do, instead of a privilege that many seem to find in killing.

-C/D

And this was done in a formal teaching environment or just troops standing around the smoking area bullshitting? : Your last sentence was the worst sensationalist bullshit you have spouted yet. You are an embarrassment and a disgrace for your vague accusations about fellow troops, and frankly you disgust me. :threat:

 

[1feral1]

Remember Lads (and Ladettes) we are giving this 'waste of rations' simply what he wants to hear.

He feeds off us like a crack whore possessed, and is no doubt sharing our quotes with others of his ilk ("look what they wrote about me today guys, those war mongering baby killers who think they are privileged to kill"...). What a POS!

I reckon his time has come on here. His integrity is long gone, and so should he.

Troll/shyte disturber, all from the same mold.

If others can be placed up the warning system for repeated anti LEO comments, then the same should be done for those trolling and baiting us in the anti CF comments, like this INDIVIDUAL is doing.

Ref:   Ms JdrO http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/81261.0.html

-------------
"Maybe because it's true.   

This is all I see, and I don't like that ish...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqbmasNeOmM

It should be publicized when the people who are supposed to be "serving and protecting" lose trust and do this type of ish, nah I don't like that ish."
----------------

Cog-Dis's behaviour (he knows what he is doing) IMHO is the same, if not worse as the above reference. His political agenda is truly disgusting.

Action, not words please.

OWDU

 

[OldSolduer]

Hey Cog Diss - get some time in before you start to spout off.

As a Company Sergeant Major, if I ever heard you shooting your mouth of around the troops like that, you'd be counselled. If you didn't stop, you'd be gone. Now good bye.

 

[PAT-Platoon]

And this was done in a formal teaching environment or just troops standing around the smoking area bullshitting? : Your last sentence was the worst sensationalist bullshit you have spouted yet. You are an embarrassment and a disgrace for your vague accusations about fellow troops, and frankly you disgust me. :threat:

These comments were done in a formal teaching environment as a matter of fact. Though I'll be fair and state that these were Reserve courses (though these comments were frequently made by Regular force members) so I cannot say if this sort of crude demonization is done throughout but from the apologism I get here it is starting to sound like it does. I understand that the emotions involved in combat bring out these things but I personally feel its unprofessional to be calling the enemy such names.

-C/D

 

[the 48th regulator]

These comments were done in a formal teaching environment as a matter of fact. Though I'll be fair and state that these were Reserve courses (though these comments were frequently made by Regular force members) so I cannot say if this sort of crude demonization is done throughout but from the apologism I get here it is starting to sound like it does. I understand that the emotions involved in combat bring out these things but I personally feel its unprofessional to be calling the enemy such names.

-C/D

Unprofessional to be calling your Enemy names, yet you have no challenge with terminating his life?

I am sorry C-D, now you are really digging at the bottom of the politically correct barrell.  You have no qualms with killing or maiming an enemy in batttle, but you take issue with name calling?

I shall retire to Bedlham....

dileas

tess

 

[George Wallace]

These comments were done in a formal teaching environment as a matter of fact. Though I'll be fair and state that these were Reserve courses (though these comments were frequently made by Regular force members) so I cannot say if this sort of crude demonization is done throughout but from the apologism I get here it is starting to sound like it does. I understand that the emotions involved in combat bring out these things but I personally feel its unprofessional to be calling the enemy such names.

-C/D

???

Really!  I really don't understand your logic at all.  Do you have any concept at all as to what kind of training Combat Arms soldiers must go through?  It doesn't matter what military, or in fact, what insurgent organization, is engaging in "KILLING"; they all will dehumanize their enemies.  What do you think the Taliban call Western soldiers and NGOs?  They demonize their enemies just like anyone else. 

What kind of principles are you teaching your soldiers/combatants if you tell them that their enemy is their best friend?  Get your head out of wherever you have it stuck and smell the coffee.

 

[PanaEng]

???

Really!  I really don't understand your logic at all.  Do you have any concept at all as to what kind of training Combat Arms soldiers must go through?  It doesn't matter what military, or in fact, what insurgent organization, is engaging in "KILLING"; they all will dehumanize their enemies.  What do you think the Taliban call Western soldiers and NGOs?  They demonize their enemies just like anyone else. 

What kind of principles are you teaching your soldiers/combatants if you tell them that their enemy is their best friend?  Get your head out of wherever you have it stuck and smell the coffee.

It pains me to say it... (there is some cognitive dissonance for you  ) and I am not trying to defend C-D or support his point of view...
but, just because the enemy does it doesn't mean that we should do it too...

but you are right, I don't see anything wrong with calling them some as long as we don't generalize and can distinguish between civilians/combatants.
We don't want guys going of to Darfur (lets say) and talk about "getting some n****rs," etc.