Ricks Napkin Challenge- The Infantry Section and Platoon

ArmyRick · 9 May 2022

So many of you participated in the napkin challenge where you were denied many things (such as large personnel numbers) and for us in Canada, things like this is a reality.

So my NEXT napkin force challenge is tackling the organization, equipment and range bands (woooo, love that neat word now) of first the infantry section and the platoon.

Who is up for it? Lets see some creativity. KevinB, Kirkhill, Infanteer, I am looking at you guys.

1. Section strength up to you and same with how many
2. Platoon maximum strength is topped at 50. Poor WO gotta feed and equip all those troops
3. The normal task that a platoon can be assigned but the key is to be able to function as part of a company and when necessary, operate on its own in a non-permissive or semi non-permissive environment
4. The small arms MUST exist now in 2022 (no future concept weapons or hand held nukes or anything like that)

I would put up my napkin orbat right now BUT I have sheep all my driveway, gotta go deal with that first.

Give 'er

OldSolduer · 9 May 2022

Honestly I like the current orbat. I would however like a fully manned weapons Dey.
2x C6
2 x 84 or a missile weapon crew

A drone operator or two would be fantastic

KevinB · 9 May 2022

ArmyRick said:
So many of you participated in the napkin challenge where you were denied many things (such as large personnel numbers) and for us in Canada, things like this is a reality.

So my NEXT napkin force challenge is tackling the organization, equipment and range bands (woooo, love that neat word now) of first the infantry section and the platoon.

Who is up for it? Lets see some creativity. KevinB, Kirkhill, Infanteer, I am looking at you guys.

1. Section strength up to you and same with how many
2. Platoon maximum strength is topped at 50. Poor WO gotta feed and equip all those troops
3. The normal task that a platoon can be assigned but the key is to be able to function as part of a company and when necessary, operate on its own in a non-permissive or semi non-permissive environment
4. The small arms MUST exist now in 2022 (no future concept weapons or hand held nukes or anything like that)

I would put up my napkin orbat right now BUT I have sheep all my driveway, gotta go deal with that first.

Give 'er

I will start with 12 man sections - with 3x4 man Det subcomponents.

Sgt - Section Commander
M/Cpl - Detachment Commanders x2
DMR x2
LMG X2
Grenadier x2
Mini UAS Op
Rifleman* x2

6" .300 BlackOut Suppressed Upper (Commanders, Signaller, Medic, Grenadiers, Riflemen and support pers)
Hk M320A1 Stand Alone 40mm MV Grenade Launcher (Section and Det Commanders)
M32A1 Multi Barrel Grenade Launcher - Grenadiers
KAC LAMG 6.5CM - LMG
KAC M110A2 6.6CM 14.5" DSR - DMR

My section range band for Direct Fire Small Arms is 1,200m for the DMR and LMG's.
400mm for the Grenadiers
300m for the sub combat carbine equipped personnel.
Rifleman may be assigned Javelin as required

For the Platoon
3 x Rifle Sections and 1 x 12 man Platoon HQ

Platoon HQ
Lt
Signaller
Pl UAS OP
Javelin Op

PL WO
Signaler
Medic
Medic

Weapons Det Cdr
6.5CM C6A1/M240
Assistant Gunner
DMR

More to follow

KevinB · 9 May 2022

Trying hard to be careful to only site OS stuff here. There is some good stuff about Squad and Platoon UAS in this.

https://www.benning.army.mil/armor/earmor/content/issues/2019/Fall/4Broman19.pdf

The type of Squad UAS I am thinking about is InstantEye Mk-2 GEN4-E0

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short legs - but extra batteries can be carried and swap out quickly.

For a Platoon UAS InstantEye Mk-3 GEN4-ISR

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I am using a Light Infantry Section and Platoon as a base - the goal was to cut down on heavy systems as much as possible - to provide a Light, Nimble Force for Operation in Complex Terrain - that can also defend itself again Near Peer Armored Threats.

-- I have NO integral mobility --
The reason for that is to me Light Forces need to be able to be deployed via Plane, Helicopter etc and be self sufficient at the Platoon level as best as possible - theatre relevant transportation would be available - but also a Light Platoon could embark in a LAV (2 LAV / Section) as needed.
Light Vehicles can be managed by the Platoon and Sections as required (Snowmobile, JLTV, ATV etc) -

Grenade Launchers: One may notice I have 5 Grenade Launchers at the Section Level.
3x HK M320A1 Stand Alone

Heckler & Koch :: Product Overview | GLM

Section and Detachment Commanders - this is more for target marking, but could be used for HEDP etc usage as well.
2x Milkor M32A1 6 shot multi barrel grenade launchers.

M32A1-MSGL - Milkor USA Inc.

The M32A1 is the USMC/SOCOM 40mm Multi-Shot Grenade Launcher of choice. The M321A1 is a hand-held, gas plug operating, semi-automatic, revolving action, 40mm Multi-Shot Grenade Launcher (MSGL). The M32A1 has...

www.milkorusa.com

To me weight of fire with a GL is important, the single shot GL's are not able to pump out a lot of rounds - and the M32A1 can dump its 6 rounds in a few seconds if need be - I chose to abandon the 60mm Mortar, and while I think the 40mm payload is pretty poor, both Grenadiers firing the M32A1 can put down a pretty significant weight of fire, and still be considerably mobile.

LMG
2x KAC LAMG 6.5 Creedmore AMG - Knight's Armament

It isn't a SF MG, it is a true light weight assault machine gun - in 6.5Creedmore it can reach 1,600m fairly well -- but I would put a 1-6x optic on it, and not expect much last 1,200m, which is pretty far anyway for a section to consider fighting with direct fire.

DMR
KAC M110K5 (adopted as M110A2 by USASOC in 6.5 Creedmore) 14.5" barrel with direct thread suppressor (the only time you take the can off is for barrel cleaning).

M110K5 M-LOK - Knight's Armament

The M110K5 is a suppressor optimized 7.62mm carbine.

www.knightarmco.com

With a 1-8x Optic, it can reach out past 1,200, and the bullet remains supersonic past 1,000m

6" .300BlackOut C8. 110gr TTSX round is exceptionally effective in the anti-personnel role out to 300m, and Subsonic rounds can be used reduce signature further - though with a reduction in effective range to ~200m - but can still deliver 100m headshots. With the suppressor is slightly shorter than a 10.3" barrel upper receiver.

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At the Platoon level - small quadcopter drones are about all you really need (IMHO) anything more than that is a Recce task, OR Mortar Platoon, OR Armor Defense Platoon or higher level assets.

ArmyRick · 9 May 2022

How many people feel a switchblade 600 (can destroy tanks apparently) can be and should be carries at either the platoon or company level?

The switchblade 300 seems more like a platoon or section weapon. Thoughts?

I personally like the idea of every section having 1 or 2 scoped 7.62mm Rifle in DMR role.

Rick's platoon Structure
Close Combat Section (8)
-Sergeant (5.56mm Carbine HK416 or C8) Assault Team
-Pte/CPL (5.56mm Carb, with stand alone M320 40mm) Assault Team
-Pte/CPL (5.56mm Carb, with Section Medical Pack) Assault Team
-Pte/CPL (5.56mm Carb, with shotgun for breaching) Assault Team
-Pte/CPL (5.56mm Carb, with Prepared breaching explosives) Assault Team
-MCPL (2IBoss) 5.56mm Carb (Cover Team) and M320 40mm stand alone
-Pte/CPL 7.62mm FN Minimi MK3 in 7.62mm (Cover Team)
-Pte/CPL 7.62mm HK417 or very similar scoped DMR (Cover Team)

ALL have 9mm pistol side arm (everybody in the platoon or if I were Grand Snake, every service member)

3 x Close Combat Sections

Fire Support Section
-SGT (Carbine)
-MCPL (carbine)
-2 x Pte man 7.62mm GPMG C6 or .338 MMG
-2 x Pte man 84mm Carl Gustav M4 (used for light armour, breaching, bunkers, buildings, smoke, etc)
-2 x Pte man Javelin (Strictly anti-armour use or use the CLU for OP, when no armour threat is present, they act as depth)

HQ
-LT with his sidekick, the signaler
-WO with his sidekick, platoon medic (who receives extra combat infantry training to keep them as compatible as possible)

I suggest only 1 x C6, because their will be 3 x additional 7.62mm LMGs.

When platoons operate in isolation from coy or BN support, give each Close combat section switchblade 600s if armour threat

This platoon numbers 36 all ranks and is meant for light infantry task

ArmyRick · 9 May 2022

KevinB said:
KAC gun is very controllable - the FN is not, and the KAC gun can be shot with a can without damage to the gun unlike the FN.

I guess it could if you didn't like the Platoon much

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At the Platoon level - small quadcopter drones are about all you really need (IMHO) anything more than that is a Recce task, OR Mortar Platoon, OR Armor Defense Platoon or higher level assets.

Or do we see a "Surveillance Strike Platoon" coming up soon that uses things like switchblade for ISR and attacking enemy at stand off range?

ArmyRick · 9 May 2022

Sold. Change FN Minimi to KAC LAMG.

markppcli · 9 May 2022

So I’m going to go a different direction and assume that we’re still operating in the CAFs “LAV based army” or at least a similar IFV. That’s caps section space at 7.
Pl:
Pl Comd (2Lt / Lt)- 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm
Pl 2IC (WO) - 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm
Signaller / System Op - 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm. Operates short range drone, provides IT services for 152s.

Weapons Section
DMR / Commander (MCpl) - C20 ( I honestly love the thing)
Spike MR No 1 - 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm clu
Spike MR No 2 - 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm

3x Section:
Section Commander (Sgt) 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm
Assault Team
Team Leader (MCpl) - 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm
Rifleman / Breacher - 10.5” 300 black out C8 + breaching shot gun + side arm. Carries charges.
Rifleman / TCCC - 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm. Medical bag

Support Team
Team Leader ( MCpl) 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm
Machine Gunner - FN Maxine 7.62mm + Side arm
AT Gunner - 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm, Spike SR

Vehicle Crew: as per

daftandbarmy · 9 May 2022

As I'm one of those party poopers who tends to thinks that we focus too much on the minutae, at the expense of the really important stuff, I'd propose some small arms for everyone in the Platoon, of course, plus something like this in direct support

Wireless Ridge (1982) Part I

"Fire support was to be lavish in comparison to Goose Green: two batteries of 105 mm guns, HMS Ambuscade with her one 4.5-inch gun offshore, and the mortars of both 2 and 3 Para, totalling 16 tubes. Ammunition was plentiful, and the battalion’s mortars had been moved complete from Mount Kent by helicopter, and were thus fresh for action. The Machine-Gun Platoon had also been flown forward. Between the six guns they had enough ammunition to provide a massive weight of fire, and the men were fresh and rather proud of their earlier achievement behind Mount Kent against the Skyhawks. The Milan Platoon was already forward with the battalion – the experience of Goose Green had demonstrated the capability of this precision guided missile against static defences. Finally the light tanks of the Blues and Royals would be there, Scimitars with their 30 mm automatic cannon and Scorpions with 76 mm guns, and both equipped with very high quality night-vision equipment and having superb cross-country performance. All available support was allotted first to D Company, then to A and B in their assault, and finally to D Company again as it traversed the ridge.

If any particular group deserves special praise for what was done that night, then it must be the tanks of the Blues and Royals. Their mere presence had been a remarkable boost to morale during all the attacks that had taken place, and the speed and accuracy of their fire, matched by their ability to keep up with the advancing Paras, had been a severe shock to the enemy. Lance-Corporal Dunkeley’s tank, which Captain Field had taken over following the injury to its commander, had alone fired 40 rounds from its 76 mm gun.

2 Para was performing superbly, its three first objectives taken with great speed and a minimum of casualties, despite heavy and accurate enemy artillery fire. Whenever the enemy in trenches had sought to return fire they had been met by a withering concentration of fire from the rifle companies’ weapons which, coupled with very heavy support, had proved devastating."

Wireless Ridge (1982) Part I

Battle for Wireless Ridge – from the Art of Daniel Bechennec The British Army’s Second Battalion of the Parachute Regiment fought in all the major battles of the 1982 land war between Britain…

weaponsandwarfare.com

Kirkhill · 9 May 2022

daftandbarmy said:
As I'm one of those party poopers who tends to thinks that we focus too much on the minutae, at the expense of the really important stuff, I'd propose some small arms for everyone in the Platoon, of course, plus something like this in direct support

Wireless Ridge (1982) Part I
"Fire support was to be lavish in comparison to Goose Green: two batteries of 105 mm guns, HMS Ambuscade with her one 4.5-inch gun offshore, and the mortars of both 2 and 3 Para, totalling 16 tubes. Ammunition was plentiful, and the battalion’s mortars had been moved complete from Mount Kent by helicopter, and were thus fresh for action. The Machine-Gun Platoon had also been flown forward. Between the six guns they had enough ammunition to provide a massive weight of fire, and the men were fresh and rather proud of their earlier achievement behind Mount Kent against the Skyhawks. The Milan Platoon was already forward with the battalion – the experience of Goose Green had demonstrated the capability of this precision guided missile against static defences. Finally the light tanks of the Blues and Royals would be there, Scimitars with their 30 mm automatic cannon and Scorpions with 76 mm guns, and both equipped with very high quality night-vision equipment and having superb cross-country performance. All available support was allotted first to D Company, then to A and B in their assault, and finally to D Company again as it traversed the ridge.

If any particular group deserves special praise for what was done that night, then it must be the tanks of the Blues and Royals. Their mere presence had been a remarkable boost to morale during all the attacks that had taken place, and the speed and accuracy of their fire, matched by their ability to keep up with the advancing Paras, had been a severe shock to the enemy. Lance-Corporal Dunkeley’s tank, which Captain Field had taken over following the injury to its commander, had alone fired 40 rounds from its 76 mm gun.

2 Para was performing superbly, its three first objectives taken with great speed and a minimum of casualties, despite heavy and accurate enemy artillery fire. Whenever the enemy in trenches had sought to return fire they had been met by a withering concentration of fire from the rifle companies’ weapons which, coupled with very heavy support, had proved devastating."

Wireless Ridge (1982) Part I

Battle for Wireless Ridge – from the Art of Daniel Bechennec The British Army’s Second Battalion of the Parachute Regiment fought in all the major battles of the 1982 land war between Britain…

weaponsandwarfare.com

Does that constitute a comprehensive list of the fire support you consider necessary or would it be fairer to suggest that you want the support of anything that can be brought to bear?

HMS Ambuscade might have difficulty supporting ops in Wainwright, or even Larkhill. Would you accept a pair of F35s instead?

ArmyRick · 9 May 2022

daftandbarmy said:
As I'm one of those party poopers who tends to thinks that we focus too much on the minutae, at the expense of the really important stuff, I'd propose some small arms for everyone in the Platoon, of course, plus something like this in direct support

Wireless Ridge (1982) Part I
"Fire support was to be lavish in comparison to Goose Green: two batteries of 105 mm guns, HMS Ambuscade with her one 4.5-inch gun offshore, and the mortars of both 2 and 3 Para, totalling 16 tubes. Ammunition was plentiful, and the battalion’s mortars had been moved complete from Mount Kent by helicopter, and were thus fresh for action. The Machine-Gun Platoon had also been flown forward. Between the six guns they had enough ammunition to provide a massive weight of fire, and the men were fresh and rather proud of their earlier achievement behind Mount Kent against the Skyhawks. The Milan Platoon was already forward with the battalion – the experience of Goose Green had demonstrated the capability of this precision guided missile against static defences. Finally the light tanks of the Blues and Royals would be there, Scimitars with their 30 mm automatic cannon and Scorpions with 76 mm guns, and both equipped with very high quality night-vision equipment and having superb cross-country performance. All available support was allotted first to D Company, then to A and B in their assault, and finally to D Company again as it traversed the ridge.

If any particular group deserves special praise for what was done that night, then it must be the tanks of the Blues and Royals. Their mere presence had been a remarkable boost to morale during all the attacks that had taken place, and the speed and accuracy of their fire, matched by their ability to keep up with the advancing Paras, had been a severe shock to the enemy. Lance-Corporal Dunkeley’s tank, which Captain Field had taken over following the injury to its commander, had alone fired 40 rounds from its 76 mm gun.

2 Para was performing superbly, its three first objectives taken with great speed and a minimum of casualties, despite heavy and accurate enemy artillery fire. Whenever the enemy in trenches had sought to return fire they had been met by a withering concentration of fire from the rifle companies’ weapons which, coupled with very heavy support, had proved devastating."

Wireless Ridge (1982) Part I

Battle for Wireless Ridge – from the Art of Daniel Bechennec The British Army’s Second Battalion of the Parachute Regiment fought in all the major battles of the 1982 land war between Britain…

weaponsandwarfare.com

So with the context of operating with other arms especially fire support, how do YOU structure your section and platoon?

ArmyRick · 9 May 2022

markppcli said:
So I’m going to go a different direction and assume that we’re still operating in the CAFs “LAV based army” or at least a similar IFV. That’s caps section space at 7.
Pl:
Pl Comd (2Lt / Lt)- 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm
Pl 2IC (WO) - 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm
Signaller / System Op - 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm. Operates short range drone, provides IT services for 152s.

Weapons Section
DMR / Commander (MCpl) - C20 ( I honestly love the thing)
Spike MR No 1 - 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm clu
Spike MR No 2 - 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm

3x Section:
Section Commander (Sgt) 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm
Assault Team
Team Leader (MCpl) - 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm
Rifleman / Breacher - 10.5” 300 black out C8 + breaching shot gun + side arm. Carries charges.
Rifleman / TCCC - 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm. Medical bag

Support Team
Team Leader ( MCpl) 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm
Machine Gunner - FN Maxine 7.62mm + Side arm
AT Gunner - 10.5” 300 black out C8 + side arm, Spike SR

Vehicle Crew: as per

Just curious, why are you set on Spike as opposed to javelin and NLAW?

KevinB · 9 May 2022

ArmyRick said:
How many people feel a switchblade 600 (can destroy tanks apparently) can be and should be carries at either the platoon or company level?

The switchblade 300 seems more like a platoon or section weapon. Thoughts?

To me they offer a significant weight penalty- and deal with potential (albeit only 150’ AGL) deconfliction issues. I’d rather use a quadcopter drone for ISR and engage via Javelin or better yet Air/Arty.

ArmyRick said:
I personally like the idea of every section having 1 or 2 scoped 7.62mm Rifle in DMR role.

6.5 Creedmore offers a lot more, flatter trajectory, so less issues with wind or distance errors.

ArmyRick said:
ALL have 9mm pistol side arm (everybody in the platoon or if I were Grand Snake, every service member)

IMHO a pistol is the first weapon anyone should be trained on. They are harder to shoot well, cheaper (weapon and ammo) and due to the short barrel length a tough but good teacher for safety.

ArmyRick said:
-2 x Pte man 7.62mm GPMG C6 or .338 MMG

The .338NM MMG is a beast - but the ammo is frighteningly heavy. To me it’s like the C-16 a great piece of kit for a vehicle

ArmyRick said:
-2 x Pte man 84mm Carl Gustav M4 (used for light armour, breaching, bunkers, buildings, smoke, etc)

I’m not against the CG84 M4, I just view it as an arms room system that is only brought out when really needed.

ArmyRick said:
2 x Pte man Javelin (Strictly anti-armour use or use the CLU for OP, when no armour threat is present, they act as depth)

Great anti-helicopter system just saying

LWCLU is a great TI in its own right as well.

ArmyRick said:
…his sidekick, platoon medic (who receives extra combat infantry training to keep them as compatible as possible)

I think everyone should be TCCC qualified, and I’m a 2 is 1, 1 is none, so I’d want two Combat Medics - who spend at least 4 years in the position being Infantry guy with the Platoon.

markppcli · 9 May 2022

ArmyRick said:
Just curious, why are you set on Spike as opposed to javelin and NLAW?

I like Spike MR / LR’s ability to aquire or switch targets post launch.

KevinB · 9 May 2022

markppcli said:
I like Spike MR / LR’s ability to aquire or switch targets post launch.

You need to come visit Benning or Bragg, we have a new toy you need to see

ArmyRick · 9 May 2022

KevinB said:
You need to come visit Benning or Bragg, we have a new toy you need to see

tease

Kirkhill · 9 May 2022

To Kevin's point:

Here is the Switchblade 300 - similar to a 60 mm mortar at launch but with a payload more like a 40 mm grenade

Here is the Switchblade 600 - More like a 120mm Mortar

A battery of 8 tubes on the back of an ATV might make for an interesting system

Link range is 40 km, Flight range is over 90 km, The round is 23 kg, The UAV is 15 kg and the FCS is 32 kg.

It kind of sounds like a Battalion Weapon to me.

Drone 40 feels like more of a Section system -

SOFIC 19 - DefendTex Drone-40 - Soldier Systems Daily

AT at the Section and Platoon - CG84 and NLAW

AT at the Platoon and Company - Javelin or Spike

AT at the Battalion - Strix 120 and Switchblade 600

Ricks Napkin Challenge- The Infantry Section and Platoon

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