Retired general claims $72K in moving expenses (CTV)

[Oldgateboatdriver]

BGen Chekan (Ottawa to Carp) $468.60

$468?  That's a cheap move! 

Maybe he moved into the old Diefenbunker, so the realtor actually paid him to take it off DND's hands

 

[Remius]

The timing does seem off a bit though.  Global does an ATI request, specifically it would seem for Generals.  Somehow in the ATI process someone leaks this to CTV before Global does its story on this.  But it's Leslie's specific info that gets sent to CTV.

On the eve of the Liberal Party Convention where he will be speaking.

The MND specifically adresses Leslie as "Liberal Defence Advisor" in his statement.

He orders a review of General Leslie's moving expenses but not it would seem anyone else's.

The Government, who knew for a while about this benefit possibly being problematic suddenly are going to review it reacting to a media story (reacting to the media isn't something the CPC is known for yet they seem to be moving fast on this one).  Seems like a knee jerk reaction to me.

Could all be coincidence though but I doubt it.  I'm no fan of Mr. Leslie.  I'm also not a huge fan of final cost moves in the same posting area either.

But, in politics, everyone is fair game.  If this is a political move to discredit Leslie then it seems that would be par for the course.  I expect nothing less from any party really.  The CPC tried to pin some things on Trudeau that I would argue backfired and I hope this isn't the case here.  The Liberal's will fling dirt just as good as the CPC given the chance. 

But in the end the CF will likely be the ones paying for this as it may mean reduced benefits. 

The CPC may not have been the ones responsible for the leak or the ATI request but it isn't hard to see that with the timing and the language that they could have pointed someone in the right direction.

What will be interesting to see is what kind of backlash if any this might provoke.  It would seem that Laurie Hawn was asked if he used the program himself and that he did but does not remember the cost.  (from Cold Lake to Edmonton) You can bet that his relocation stuff will be ATIed as a result. 

When one thinks about it though, the CPC may not be be the ones behind all of this.  They have former military types within their ranks and what with the brouhaha with vets, why subject themselves to something that would backfire on them. 

 

[George Wallace]

The timing does seem off a bit though.  Global does an ATI request, specifically it would seem for Generals.  Somehow in the ATI process someone leaks this to CTV before Global does its story on this.  But it's Leslie's specific info that gets sent to CTV.

.......

The CPC may not have been the ones responsible for the leak or the ATI request but it isn't hard to see that with the timing and the language that they could have pointed someone in the right direction.
..............

When one thinks about it though, the CPC may not be be the ones behind all of this.  They have former military types within their ranks and what with the brouhaha with vets, why subject themselves to something that would backfire on them.

Perhaps it would be best to make and ATI request as to the number of ATI requests each of the Media outlets submit in a day/week/month.  I am sure that the numbers will be astronomical.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The timing does seem off a bit though.  Global does an ATI request, specifically it would seem for Generals.  Somehow in the ATI process someone leaks this to CTV before Global does its story on this.  But it's Leslie's specific info that gets sent to CTV.

On the eve of the Liberal Party Convention where he will be speaking.

The MND specifically adresses Leslie as "Liberal Defence Advisor" in his statement.

He orders a review of General Leslie's moving expenses but not it would seem anyone else's.

The Government, who knew for a while about this benefit possibly being problematic suddenly are going to review it reacting to a media story (reacting to the media isn't something the CPC is known for yet they seem to be moving fast on this one).  Seems like a knee jerk reaction to me.

Could all be coincidence though but I doubt it.  I'm no fan of Mr. Leslie.  I'm also not a huge fan of final cost moves in the same posting area either.

But, in politics, everyone is fair game.  If this is a political move to discredit Leslie then it seems that would be par for the course.  I expect nothing less from any party really.  The CPC tried to pin some things on Trudeau that I would argue backfired and I hope this isn't the case here.  The Liberal's will fling dirt just as good as the CPC given the chance. 

But in the end the CF will likely be the ones paying for this as it may mean reduced benefits. 

The CPC may not have been the ones responsible for the leak or the ATI request but it isn't hard to see that with the timing and the language that they could have pointed someone in the right direction.

What will be interesting to see is what kind of backlash if any this might provoke.  It would seem that Laurie Hawn was asked if he used the program himself and that he did but does not remember the cost.  (from Cold Lake to Edmonton) You can bet that his relocation stuff will be ATIed as a result. 

When one thinks about it though, the CPC may not be be the ones behind all of this.  They have former military types within their ranks and what with the brouhaha with vets, why subject themselves to something that would backfire on them.

..........or it could be the liberals putting it out there. Perhaps they knew this would come to light and would prefer to deal with it now. That way it'll be forgotten or he'll be vindicated, well before any election. Instead of it coming in the middle of his campaign where it would become a major distraction.

 

[Remius]

@George,

There's an easier way.  TBS has a list of completed ATI requests, by month.  It isn't hard to see what has been requested and what stories have followed shortly there after.  For instance Tony Clement's gold embossed business cards were the subject of a rquest completed in Dec 2013.  In Jan, the Citizen ran a story on exactly that. 

https://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/atipo-baiprp/req/2013l-eng.asp

Someone also looked into his travel as well back in November.

As for this current request it may have been done in Jan for this month (that data isn't available yet).  But there was something back in spet i believe requesting  info on rellocation plans and benefits but it seemed to be government wide.

@recceguy

If they did do that it would be a pretty badly timed plan given their convention.  Plus they could have just come forward with it rather than use the guise of an ATI request.  But you have a point that they might have been trying to get ahead of it.  Although one would think they woudl have done that before the story broke in the news (unless they were too slow).  They seemed however fairly prepared.  Leslie responded, Marc Garneau taking the lead etc etc. 

 

[Journeyman]

......or it could have been the NDP as a false-flag op, knowing it would have the CPC and the Liberals squabbling embarrassingly, which in turn would have the conspiracy theorists question the Global versus CTV timelines.....all apparently to distract attention from the VAC closures. 

        :stars:    :Tin-Foil-Hat:

About the best quote so far is:

.......have no idea what took place......

 

[The Bread Guy]

The timing does seem off a bit though.  Global does an ATI request, specifically it would seem for Generals.  Somehow in the ATI process someone leaks this to CTV before Global does its story on this.  But it's Leslie's specific info that gets sent to CTV.

Still peeling the layers off the onion, but another possible alternative explanation:  CTV requests & receives ATI trawl package.  Two ways it could go:
1)  Overall "lookit how much Canada is spending to move generals from one neighbourhood to another?" story, or
2)  Who floated to the top of the list?  Someone more prominent than most Generals knows?  Anyone else that's been in the news on the list?
We see how it went.
Also, so far, it appears only Global may have shared the "obtained' doucment itself.

 

[dapaterson]

......or it could have been the NDP as a false-flag op, knowing it would have the CPC and the Liberals squabbling embarrassingly, which in turn would have the conspiracy theorists question the Global versus CTV timelines.....all apparently to distract attention from the VAC closures. 

        :stars:    :Tin-Foil-Hat:

But what about Elizabeth May?  The Green Party!  And Army uniforms are Green!  Convenient how your version excludes her completely.

Clearly, you're part of the deception plan - maybe you're the mastermind behind the whole consipiracy...

 

[DAA]

It's all pretty ridiculous. 

LGen Leslie should just do the honest thing and pay the money back.  Heck, he might even be able to borrow it, without interest, from Jeremy Broadhurst, Justin Trudeau's Chief of Staff.

Oh wait a second.....what was I thinking?  The Conservatives have already used that one.........    :facepalm:

 

[The Bread Guy]

Also, so far, it appears only Global may have shared the "obtained' document itself.

And if you're interested, here's the "obtained" doc attached.

Also, here's a link to the AG's 2006 report on the program in question.

 

[Journeyman]

LGen Leslie should just do the honest thing and pay the money back. 

If everything he did was correct within regulations, want to give us a hand hauling him down off that cross?!  The honest thing??!

For disclosure, I am not a fan of former-LGen Leslie.  I don't know if I'm a fan of politician-Mr. Leslie, but even that is irrelevant because he's not in my riding.


Sorry DAA, I thought more highly of you.  Maybe you should back off from the amount of time you're spending in the Recruiting threads.  :not-again:

 

[Bog-Trotter]

Is it just me, or...

having retired from the RAF, under essentially the same policy but in Britland, my move back to Canada was under $20K. Have I missed something... :'(

 

[George Wallace]

Is it just me, or...

having retired from the RAF, under essentially the same policy but in Britland, my move back to Canada was under $20K. Have I missed something... :'(

Yes you have.  If you look at the list that was provided, a couple of Generals moves cost less than $500 while others varied in costs up to the $72K.  Distance wasn't the big factor in cost.  Other factors were.  What was the value of the home they were moving from and the home that they were moving into, and what were the Legal, Realtor and Property tax costs involved were often the determining factors.  Someone moving from a downtown apartment to a home in the 'burbs would incur costs less than someone in a million dollar home moving into another million dollar home.

As all the rules for this move, and all the others, seem to be in accordance to the directives, this is not news.  It is only news because someone who has no understanding of the rules governing the 'last move' of long serving military members thinks that there is an impropriety in what some have done.  Some people have the opinion that they must know everything about everything, even if it does not concern them.  Others, such as Stephen Staples have agendas to dismantle the military, and will see a conspiracy or impropriety around every corner.  Still others are just trying to justify their jobs and sell newspapers or fill a news program with sound bits.   

 

[The Bread Guy]

If the MND and other CPC politicians decide to "make (one time) hay" with this by introducing some new exceptions/limitations I guarantee, without fear of ever being wrong, that someone, a corporal most likely, will get sideswiped; the media will take up that case and DND and the government of the day will look cruel and foolish.

Along those lines - different policy, maybe, but it's being pulled in ....

A military family that took a $77,000 loss selling their Edmonton-area home because of a forced transfer is challenging the Conservative government in Federal Court.

Maj. Marcus Brauer is protesting a federal Treasury Board decision that denied him full compensation for lost equity under a long-standing Defence Department policy.

The resurrection of his case comes amid lingering questions about moving expenses claimed by military brass.

The government has yet to explain why it covered the nearly $40,000 bill to move a court-martialed and disgraced former brigadier-general to the United Arab Emirates. Nor has there been a public accounting of $47,000 in claims for three officers whose moves were listed as going from a spartan military camp in Afghanistan to Ottawa, Kingston, Ont., and Halifax.

Requests for comment or clarification were unanswered Tuesday.

The Harper Conservatives also remained silent Tuesday after two days' of political attacks on former lieutenant-general and star Liberal candidate Andrew Leslie's $72,000 moving bill.

Brauer said he could not comment on the expense claims of flag officers and noted that the nuts and bolts of moving outlays are handled under a separate benefits program.

But he did say he's been scrambling to make ends meet following a $77,000 equity hit in his move to Halifax, and has been appealing for donations to cover the estimated $20,000 needed to keep the Federal Court challenge going.

"The level of destitution we are going through is not acceptable for any family," he said Tuesday in an interview with The Canadian Press. "After 25 years of service I don't think I should have to go through this." ....

 

[DAA]

If everything he did was correct within regulations, want to give us a hand hauling him down off that cross?!  The honest thing??!

For disclosure, I am not a fan of former-LGen Leslie.  I don't know if I'm a fan of politician-Mr. Leslie, but even that is irrelevant because he's not in my riding.

Sorry DAA, I thought more highly of you.  Maybe you should back off from the amount of time you're spending in the Recruiting threads.  :not-again:

My bad idea of humour using it as a parody in comparison to the CPC fiasco.  Couldn't think of a better word to use at the time.   

 

[Lightguns]

Talk radio is completely on side with the lower ranks, Canadians can tell the difference from uniformed politicans from soldiers.  Who really cares if "$500 Limit Andy" gets an rude introduction to a world he cannot order to shut up?

 

[Remius]

Talk radio is completely on side with the lower ranks, Canadians can tell the difference from uniformed politicans from soldiers.  Who really cares if "$500 Limit Andy" gets an rude introduction to a world he cannot order to shut up?

I've never been a fan of the guy but he was a soldier at one time and the contract he had with the Crown applied to him as well as any private or corporal (including but not limited to unlimited liability).  The man and his family was posted and transferred 18 times, he served with distinction and yes became a general.  Becoming a general does indeed involve some politics. 

I care if he gets this rude introduction because it will likely lead to collateral damage.  The lower ranks will become pawns in this mess.  Leslie takes a bit of heat, the CPC tries to score some points and serving CF members will lose more benefits all with people smiling and saying they are supporting the troops.

I think what grates on people who don't know any better is that:

a) he's was a general and,

b) he's a rich guy who used to be a general

Neither should factor in at all in this. 

There are plenty of other things one could attack Leslie for but this shouldn't be one of them.

Already there seems to be a backlash over this.  Talk radio this morning was bringing up the fact that the auditor general and the ombudsman have both brought this problem of relocation up for years now and nothing has been done.  So why now?  Because it is politrically expediant to do so.  rather than look at this from a public interest point of view it is being used as a political interest. 

If anything, it seems, that at least the plight of some CF members who've suffered hardships in their postings and transfers are getting some attention now.

 

[Sub_Guy]

While not the case for Leslie, a few of the Generals/Admirals on the list had to vacate their residences at retirement because they were in Military housing (Adm Greenwood comes to mind).

 

[George Wallace]

Talk radio this morning mentioned questioning General Hillier on the matter and whether or not he took advantage of this policy.  His reply was that he did not.  He has a home in Newfoundland.  This now turns into a question of judgement on the part of General Leslie, not one of entitlements.  Could he have, with his financial situation, not taken advantage of this policy, like some others who have not found it necessary to do so?  Only General Leslie can answer that.  Perhaps this will place his ethics and morals into the limelight, rather than an entitlement that long serving members CAN take advantage of.  We have seen already that some have found it is NOT necessary to take advantage of this.  The longer this stays in the news, the more speculation and the appearances of a smear job will thrive.

Ill-informed people will continue to question why others have entitlements that they do not.  Socialism thrives in Canada.

 

[Jarnhamar]

A military family that took a $77,000 loss selling their Edmonton-area home because of a forced transfer is challenging the Conservative government in Federal Court.

That's just brutal.  The media should look into forced transfers and CF members loosing tens of thousands of dollars after they have their fill with the ex-generals moving expenses.