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Mr Langen:
Could you enlighten us as to why (you think) this happened?
Could you enlighten us as to why (you think) this happened?
respect in general
- Thread starter Roger Langen
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To Cpl Caldwell: The class action lawyers have an opinion which I have repeated - by implying it - in my paragraph on the NCVA. The concern is that the NCVA spokesman was advised to think better of his organization's initial response (in order, one presumes, to protect future assets).
But it may be more complicated even. The case is potentially embarrassing for the government. So it is useful, whenever the media does its occasional piece on the story, to have someone with a respectable veteran's background distracting attention away from the government itself. And it has the added benefit of being a calumnious distraction: These are "52nd cousins" with their hands stretched out; taxpayers are being taken for a ride; the lawyers are greedy; other programs will suffer; the veterans don't need - or can't use - the money; and so on. None of it true; but sufficient, nonetheless, to confuse critical attention long enough for other stories to push this one into the shadows.
Is this deliberate, or just serendipity - a bit of good PR luck for the government? You be the judge.
But there was an interesting moment when the NCVA offered for a time to represent my dad's interests in this matter (in return, I assume, for ceasing to speak publicly about the case). The NCVA's star ship enterprise is, without doubt, War Amps. The mindset of my father's generation, a mindset that he himself shared, was that physical disability from war was typically a badge of honour; mental disability, or shell shock, was much more vague, and possibly a sign of cowardice. Today's post-traumatic stress syndrome was, as a matter of simple history, yesterday's execution. The difficulty my dad's case posed for this attitude is that not only did he return from the war war-obsessed, he was severely wounded in combat - moreover, during a significant action in the Italian Campaign - and barely survived. Only last spring, letters of his to his mother and brother turned up in our family for the first time, and we can read there both his experience just before the injuries (bullet and grenade) and a month after as he was recuperating and in obvious amazement at his survival. It is just a paragraph, but it says a lot. He was 20.
How to discredit him? It may interest you to know that neither my mother nor I has ever been able to review my dad's war record or pension history. We have written many letters of request, and for a time, even enlisted the help of the Legion. Two things happened: no reply, or a letter stating that our inquiry had been re-directed to another agency (the last time, the Canadian archives) and then no reply. But as it happens, the NCVA was interested in my father's war record, too. Reading the memos between that organization and the lawyers and others connected with the Deputy Minister for Veterans Affairs, it was clear that the records could be had for the NCVA to peruse within a week, whether to good purpose or ill, who shall say? But the class action lawyers formally complained to the RCMP, as did I, and the effort to obtain that record was dropped.
So, at the very least, without being definitive on any particular point, we can say that the NCVA's connection to this case is both interested and complex. What does it exactly mean? I am unable to say.
I'm sorry to have written another long message, but this case is obviously large with me. When it finally settles, I will go away. But for now, I am very heartened. I have had more interest over the last few days, thanks to this site, than from anyone in the media mainstream for quite a while.
Roger Langen
But it may be more complicated even. The case is potentially embarrassing for the government. So it is useful, whenever the media does its occasional piece on the story, to have someone with a respectable veteran's background distracting attention away from the government itself. And it has the added benefit of being a calumnious distraction: These are "52nd cousins" with their hands stretched out; taxpayers are being taken for a ride; the lawyers are greedy; other programs will suffer; the veterans don't need - or can't use - the money; and so on. None of it true; but sufficient, nonetheless, to confuse critical attention long enough for other stories to push this one into the shadows.
Is this deliberate, or just serendipity - a bit of good PR luck for the government? You be the judge.
But there was an interesting moment when the NCVA offered for a time to represent my dad's interests in this matter (in return, I assume, for ceasing to speak publicly about the case). The NCVA's star ship enterprise is, without doubt, War Amps. The mindset of my father's generation, a mindset that he himself shared, was that physical disability from war was typically a badge of honour; mental disability, or shell shock, was much more vague, and possibly a sign of cowardice. Today's post-traumatic stress syndrome was, as a matter of simple history, yesterday's execution. The difficulty my dad's case posed for this attitude is that not only did he return from the war war-obsessed, he was severely wounded in combat - moreover, during a significant action in the Italian Campaign - and barely survived. Only last spring, letters of his to his mother and brother turned up in our family for the first time, and we can read there both his experience just before the injuries (bullet and grenade) and a month after as he was recuperating and in obvious amazement at his survival. It is just a paragraph, but it says a lot. He was 20.
How to discredit him? It may interest you to know that neither my mother nor I has ever been able to review my dad's war record or pension history. We have written many letters of request, and for a time, even enlisted the help of the Legion. Two things happened: no reply, or a letter stating that our inquiry had been re-directed to another agency (the last time, the Canadian archives) and then no reply. But as it happens, the NCVA was interested in my father's war record, too. Reading the memos between that organization and the lawyers and others connected with the Deputy Minister for Veterans Affairs, it was clear that the records could be had for the NCVA to peruse within a week, whether to good purpose or ill, who shall say? But the class action lawyers formally complained to the RCMP, as did I, and the effort to obtain that record was dropped.
So, at the very least, without being definitive on any particular point, we can say that the NCVA's connection to this case is both interested and complex. What does it exactly mean? I am unable to say.
I'm sorry to have written another long message, but this case is obviously large with me. When it finally settles, I will go away. But for now, I am very heartened. I have had more interest over the last few days, thanks to this site, than from anyone in the media mainstream for quite a while.
Roger Langen
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Sir,
having read your eloquent response, I owe you a further apology.
I said earlier that you touched a nerve - that is when you said that the 'stock' of a veteran goes down when he is no longer needed.
I have been thinking of your post all day, and thinking of WW2 veterans I know, and how they have often been treated with far less respect than they deserve.
You lost a father, and your mother lost a husband, because of his sense of duty to his country, and now you are fighting for compensation - when really, I suspect, you would have rather had your father whole.
I guess I am (was) angry because I was not surprised that your father was treated so, because there are so many stories like this.
I knew a fellow who was taken prisoner at Dieppe. He was a tank crewman, and was fighting ashore, covering the retreat, when he was ordered to surrender. He spent almost three years in a German camp, and was sent home on a prisoner exchange in early '45 when the doctor determined that he was losing his mind. (He had been tortured.)
He said that he went into a Legion once after the war. When they found out he had been a prisoner, they called him a coward, and he never went back. He was a good man, but he spent the rest of his life coming to terms with anger. He died in 2003. He had come to terms with what had happened, he was proud of his service, but there was bitterness.
I suppose, in a way, you are fighting for him.
I am angry because I fear that if we do not fight hard, there is a strong possibility that our present casualties may also be swept aside. We live in a disposable society.
This war may last two years, it may last 20.
I already have lost one friend killed, and several wounded. I know that before it is all over, more friends will be casualties.
We are all willing to step up, because we are loyal to the country and to the profession.
But I am skeptical and perhaps cynical of many who claim to support our troops, but want something in return. I don't think that of you having read your position - I understand your point that veterans are veterans, regardless of the era.
I should let you know that there are many 'hangers-on' coming out of the woodwork - I have dealt with several personally. They want money, or brand endorsement, or 'face-time', all in the name of supporting the troops - but when there is nothing in it for them, they disappear. They make me feel gray.
I do not consider you one of those people, and I regret insinuating so earlier. Anger says stupid things.
I understand that the government should be held accountable to veterans benefits - you are quite correct.
I remain fearful of those who would use our military casualties and setbacks with quiet glee to gain a few votes - hence my initial cynicism, which I realize with reflection, was misplaced.
And your fight will hopefully set a precedent - decades after we have left Afghanistan, we will still have soldiers injured in body and mind.
In Edmonton, they opened a new veterans centre in 2005 - the one it replaced was shameful. The staff was caring, but the rooms were small, infested with vermin, lucid patients were mixed with those overcome with dementia.
It served as an unfitting end to those who arguably deserve more from this country than any other group - but so often they are tucked away out of sight and out of mind.
Politically, veterans have become lightweights.
Strangely, the new veterans centre in Edmonton was built largely from private donations - a nation that spends billions at a time could not come up with the extra $10 million (approx) to give these heroes a dignified repose.
I hope we do not repeat the same injustice. I look at my friends and I realize that many of them will not come through this present ordeal whole - as I say, if they were not willing to shoulder the risk, they would not volunteer. We do so out of love of something greater than money.
But I hope our past and future casualties are not neglected. I guess it will require a continuous fight, like all worthwhile things.
having read your eloquent response, I owe you a further apology.
I said earlier that you touched a nerve - that is when you said that the 'stock' of a veteran goes down when he is no longer needed.
I have been thinking of your post all day, and thinking of WW2 veterans I know, and how they have often been treated with far less respect than they deserve.
You lost a father, and your mother lost a husband, because of his sense of duty to his country, and now you are fighting for compensation - when really, I suspect, you would have rather had your father whole.
I guess I am (was) angry because I was not surprised that your father was treated so, because there are so many stories like this.
I knew a fellow who was taken prisoner at Dieppe. He was a tank crewman, and was fighting ashore, covering the retreat, when he was ordered to surrender. He spent almost three years in a German camp, and was sent home on a prisoner exchange in early '45 when the doctor determined that he was losing his mind. (He had been tortured.)
He said that he went into a Legion once after the war. When they found out he had been a prisoner, they called him a coward, and he never went back. He was a good man, but he spent the rest of his life coming to terms with anger. He died in 2003. He had come to terms with what had happened, he was proud of his service, but there was bitterness.
I suppose, in a way, you are fighting for him.
I am angry because I fear that if we do not fight hard, there is a strong possibility that our present casualties may also be swept aside. We live in a disposable society.
This war may last two years, it may last 20.
I already have lost one friend killed, and several wounded. I know that before it is all over, more friends will be casualties.
We are all willing to step up, because we are loyal to the country and to the profession.
But I am skeptical and perhaps cynical of many who claim to support our troops, but want something in return. I don't think that of you having read your position - I understand your point that veterans are veterans, regardless of the era.
I should let you know that there are many 'hangers-on' coming out of the woodwork - I have dealt with several personally. They want money, or brand endorsement, or 'face-time', all in the name of supporting the troops - but when there is nothing in it for them, they disappear. They make me feel gray.
I do not consider you one of those people, and I regret insinuating so earlier. Anger says stupid things.
I understand that the government should be held accountable to veterans benefits - you are quite correct.
I remain fearful of those who would use our military casualties and setbacks with quiet glee to gain a few votes - hence my initial cynicism, which I realize with reflection, was misplaced.
And your fight will hopefully set a precedent - decades after we have left Afghanistan, we will still have soldiers injured in body and mind.
In Edmonton, they opened a new veterans centre in 2005 - the one it replaced was shameful. The staff was caring, but the rooms were small, infested with vermin, lucid patients were mixed with those overcome with dementia.
It served as an unfitting end to those who arguably deserve more from this country than any other group - but so often they are tucked away out of sight and out of mind.
Politically, veterans have become lightweights.
Strangely, the new veterans centre in Edmonton was built largely from private donations - a nation that spends billions at a time could not come up with the extra $10 million (approx) to give these heroes a dignified repose.
I hope we do not repeat the same injustice. I look at my friends and I realize that many of them will not come through this present ordeal whole - as I say, if they were not willing to shoulder the risk, they would not volunteer. We do so out of love of something greater than money.
But I hope our past and future casualties are not neglected. I guess it will require a continuous fight, like all worthwhile things.
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To PNP: I think we have just become friends. I was touched by your insight that all I have really wanted is "my father whole." That is the theme of a letter I wrote to my father's physician a month before he died in 1998. The physician, a Dr. Nowlan, wanted to know more about my father's condition and what I could recall of his early days. That was all before the case began. When I wrote Prime Minister Chretien asking him to intervene in the case, I included that letter as an enclosure, and later made it available (on behalf, as it were, of other families' stories) to the website that was put up, where I think it is still available as a link. But there was no reply.
Anyway, thank you for your kind words. We evidently think very much alike. It's wonderful how this particular medium, which I am still trying to get used to, can bring people together. In its own way, it is leveling the playing field and putting the big powers on notice to mind their p's and q's a little more carefully.
With regards,
Roger
Anyway, thank you for your kind words. We evidently think very much alike. It's wonderful how this particular medium, which I am still trying to get used to, can bring people together. In its own way, it is leveling the playing field and putting the big powers on notice to mind their p's and q's a little more carefully.
With regards,
Roger
