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Reservists Job Protection Superthread

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http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1155592215611&call_pageid=970599119419


Protect home interests of reservists
Aug. 15, 2006. 01:00 AM

For many Canadians it still comes as something of a shock to find out that their soldiers are or have been engaged in actual armed combat in places like Afghanistan and the tattered remnants of what used to be Yugoslavia.

It comes as a double shock to those people to find out that many of the men and women who are doing the killing and dying are not professional full-time soldiers but reservists, who hold down regular jobs as automobile mechanics or government clerks and learn their soldiering at weekend drills and at summer camp.

For Montrealers, that reality was brought home all too literally this month when the remains of Cpl. Jason Patrick Warren of the city's own Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada were shipped home in a flag-draped coffin after he and a comrade were killed by a suicide bomber in Kandahar.

Nor was Warren the only reservist to have given his life in the service of his country in the current Afghanistan campaign. Bombardier Myles Mansell of Victoria and Lt. William Turner of Edmonton — both killed in a bomb explosion — were also reservists.

In fact, Maclean's magazine says fully 13 per cent of the 2,300 soldiers serving in Afghanistan are reservists.

Given the Canadian government's reliance on reservists like Warren and Mansell and Turner, then it would be logical to presume that Ottawa has taken all the necessary steps to defend vigorously the home interests of reservists while they are overseas. But that, unfortunately, is not the case.

Employers — even government employers — are frequently not very enthusiastic about their workers' weekend soldiering, Maclean's reports, often making it difficult for reservists to get off the time they need for training and other activities.

And when employees volunteer for overseas deployment to a hot zone like Afghanistan, their bosses are less than co-operative in guarding their jobs for them. One soldier returned from a high-profile civilian outreach program in the villages around Kabul to discover that he no longer had a job with the Ontario government.

Reserve soldiers in other countries have far better protection and support than their Canadian counterparts. U.S. law, for example, requires employers to protect reservists' jobs. Britain compensates employers whose workers volunteer for active duty.

All Canadian reservists have is a law that requires employers to protect their jobs if they are called up for compulsory service, something that hasn't happened since World War II. There is no legislated protection for reservists who volunteer for overseas service.

Canada should do better. The government continues to find new work for our overstretched armed forces, which is bound to create a need for even more reservists to enter active duty.

Both the government and employers should work together to make sure our men and women in uniform have the same kind of job security that mothers on maternity leave have, for some of the same reasons.

Both mothers and soldiers, after all, are performing a vital and volunteer service for the nation.





Just wondering if anyone out there has faced any problems with their civvy employers? I haven't had to ask yet, but I will have to very soon, and based on the CFLC (employer support of for the reserve force) briefing I attended, it appeared that we do have at least some support.  How was the problem rectified? And was the CFLC effective  in helping you obtain a leave of absence for training exercises?
 
Not just the civilian world. The CF itself.

Roughly 15 guys from my unit, maybe 30 or so from other units and I were on class B for 18 months with 25 CF Supply Depot here in Montreal. We were doing forklift work, inventory and whatever other warehouse jobs. I had to fight tooth and nail to get some time off. We were never compensated with CTOs. The only time off I got was when I was sometimes allowed to come in mondays at 1000 and that is only because a MCpl took the heat for us...every time. In the defence of 25 CFSD they didn`t allow a handful of reservists to go on a 7 day exercise.

When you have a 20 weekend PLQ course or a 12 weekend Drivers course  or a 7 weekend PSWQ course, to complete as a pre-requisite for your leadership course that makes for long 7 day weeks that can easily turn into 14 days straight.

I know being on class B you belong to the unit that employs.  I know it works against 25 CFSD because they need us on the ground to work and our CTOs would cut into their time but in the bigger scheme of things wouldn`t you agree that as an infantry soldier I have the moral obligation to continue training with my unit and to develop as an infanteer?
 
I see from your profile you are a fairly junior member. The only advice I can give is get your training and your tour(s) now. Chances are, You will not have another window open up to you until you are in your forties.

Once you finish school things close down real quick. Family, rent/mortgages all add up to make things sticky. Chances are you will not find a civ employer amenable to your situation. Chances are, if you get into the regular life of kids and payments that hopping around from job to job to get training is too risky (Wanna bet the house on that leaf?)

CFLC and units do as good a job as they can, the point is in this country there is precious little support for reservists, and I doubt that will ever change. Oh and as far as things like VG, consider your summer vacation spoken for the next <insert_length_of_military_career_here> years.
 
That's the problem I'm running into now. I finished school last year, and 2 days after my last exam was on a plane to start predeployment training. Did a roto, came back and got a Civvie job where I've been working for the past 2 months. Being an engineer, it's hard to jump jobs, as you need to gain experience before anyone really wants to hire you.. I lucked out and got a really good job, but now that the summer is almost over and the unit is about to stand to, things are going to get just a little bit hectic. Definatley don't think I'll be able to swing anymore full time career courses in the military for a while. It kinda sucks.

On the flip side, the CEO was pretty impressed with my having been on a tour, so he may be flexible after I've put some time in at this company..
 
I wasn't`t really talking about myself since I have already started a transfer to the reg force but rather for all the reservists that were in the same boat as me at 25 CFSD.

In 18 months, between a class B at 25 CFSD and working at my unit I have racked up over 90 days of work. That`s unpaid, free and without compensation. At $120 a day that`s a lot of money. That`s just me. There were over 40 reservists working there doing more or less the same thing.

There has to be something in place to support the reservists. How do we expect those on civi street to support us when some CF units don`t?
 
Oh and as far as things like VG, consider your summer vacation spoken for the next <insert_length_of_military_career_here> years.

I figured as much. That's the plan for now.....basically use all my vacation time for training, instead of vacationing. I guess going up north during the summer on an ex is just like camping......but a hell of a lot more demanding! My GF will love that ..... ;)
 
I am a little weary of the federal enacting a law to protect reservist employment, or other consideration.

Talking to national guard members down south, they mention that some employers will discriminate when hiring, base on someones status as a reservist.

Although, the British way mentioned above, where an employer gets compensated from the government when an employee goes overseas, might e worth looking into.

 
Beezer said:
I wasn't`t really talking about myself since I have already started a transfer to the reg force but rather for all the reservists that were in the same boat as me at 25 CFSD.

In 18 months, between a class B at 25 CFSD and working at my unit I have racked up over 90 days of work. That`s unpaid, free and without compensation. At $120 a day that`s a lot of money. That`s just me. There were over 40 reservists working there doing more or less the same thing.

There has to be something in place to support the reservists. How do we expect those on civi street to support us when some CF units don`t?

Free? Unpaid? Did your Cl B pay cheque stop while you were training with your home unit? Members on Cl B who choose to continue parading with their home unit do so of their own choice (I did too when on Cl B). I never considered it "free or unpaid" since I was getting paid 7 days a week. I didn't expect CTO since it was my choice to work with my home unit, not a requirement. My civy job has not once given me a CTO for working a weekend with the CF nor have they paid we for weekends I didn't work for them despite being a FT employee.
 
Dissident's point is well taken. Sometimes we look south of the border and wish we had what they had. It is quite true from my experiences talking to American reservists over the years that they are 'pre-discriminated' quite often. It is also true that employers flaunt the law and find a reason to fire a reservist going on course or on ex. These excuses can be 'lack of work' or 'downsizing' but no matter what it is called it's tripe.

Let's face it, a lot of company's cannot afford the disruption of losing a staff member for a month (or more).

IMHO there are only three alternatives, make your military job the most important (live on Class 'B' and take whatever else may come up), take what you can get on Class 'A' or the odd summer 'B' (what I do as much as possible), or join the Regular Force (been there too..) Other than that, it's a vocation for life but it's only a part time job.
 
Octavianus said:
It comes as a double shock to those people to find out that many of the men and women who are doing the killing and dying are not professional full-time soldiers but reservists, who hold down regular jobs as automobile mechanics or government clerks and learn their soldiering at weekend drills and at summer camp.
 

>:( 

I'd like to see somebody in uniform call it summer camp....
 
best advice to new reservists is to set their priorities......
1. Family
2. Employment
3. Reserves
If you forget your priorities...... it'll all come tumbling down like a big house of cards and you'll have nothing!...

Just a word to the wise.

With respect to being hired... yup, some potential employers will discriminate if you talk to them about future deployments and military leave - before you get hired.

With respect to time off for courses - you have to paint the rosy picture. Make him understand that you are taking leadership training. Something that HE will benefit from in specific and pertinent ways

With respect to having time off from your «Cl B employer to "work" with your unit.... yup, they don't want you to go out, risk getting hurt or coming back to work dog tired and not giving them your 100%.

 
I have been rather fortunate with my current employer.  My boss has been more than happy to allow me to leave a little early Friday nights for exercises, and never schedules me for weekends.  Like stated above, I haven’t had any sort of real vacation in 4 years.  All my vacation time has been allocated to Training exercises, whether it be concentration or Kodiak Strike (which got cancelled this year, but opened up some more training for me within the regiment)

Do I regret any of it?  Not a chance.  I have taken full advantage of weekends off to spend time and do activities with the girlfriend, and I have been lucky enough to have her support my military career as well.

I have recently put my name in for a tour and am currently waiting on our Ops Warrant to let me know when one is available to me, but I don't think my job would be waiting for me when I return.  I spend a lot of time thinking my decision over, and what will happen when I get back.  I have a good job right now (A career really.  It's what I went to school to do), and the risk of losing it is almost 100% if I leave for PDT and the tour afterwards, but it's something I have always wanted.  I have been weighing in the pros and cons of my decision.  This is unfortunately something many Reservists in the same situation as me have to deal with.  I have heard mixed information about how US Reserves have it.  Some say that there is no discrimination at all, and others say there is.  If we had the same laws here in Canada, I'm certain it would be the same.  It all comes down to the employer really.  If they really want to get rid of you for leaving on tour, regardless of any job protection laws, they will do it.  There will always be an excuse (as stated above...lack of work or downsizing)

That's just my 0.02 cents CDN or 0.0178109 USD
 
Heres one for ya the other side of the coin.I was away working with my civy employer on an official leave of absance from my unit.The CO at the time decided that she wasnt happy with me missing parade nights so at her discretion she canselled it.I happen to be out west at the time unaware of what was going on.Then the wife calls me saying that the cheif clerk in Sydney called and said there sending the mp's to get my kit or i would get an nes release.So i call the unit to see wtf is goin on and basically thats what was goin on,i make arangements to get some time to come home an get it sorted out.Needless to say im done with the mo because i was basically told its the moltia or my civy job.There was no reason for me to be treated that way, 3 un tours 4years reg,mechanic in the mo lots of courses and good assesments.Any way not trying to hyjack the thread but theres always 2 sides to a coin.
 
I've seen this as well Bubba. It's often the case when people have to travel or get shift jobs.

I am sorry to hear that your CO was so hard-assed about it. I have been given leave a couple of times for work and for compassionate reasons, I am grateful for it. I think that sometimes the units have to balance the amount of time that they can get out of a troop and what they get in return. 'Course I don't have all the facts, but with your Reg experience it seems that the unit is getting the short shrift.

Too bad about them. But like Geo said above keep the priorities straight.

Crappy as it looks in your case this might be the only thing you can do right now
 
Lost_Warrior said:
I have recently put my name in for a tour and am currently waiting on our Ops Warrant to let me know when one is available to me, but I don't think my job would be waiting for me when I return.  I spend a lot of time thinking my decision over, and what will happen when I get back.  I have a good job right now (A career really.  It's what I went to school to do), and the risk of losing it is almost 100% if I leave for PDT and the tour afterwards, but it's something I have always wanted.  I have been weighing in the pros and cons of my decision. 

But have you actually approached your employer with the possibility? Some employers recognize the added value of someone who has gone out and proven themselves in real crisis management, and the maturity they bring back to that employer, as well as loyalty for being there afterwards.

Might be worth sounding out...they might surprise you.
 
To add to Dissident's bit

There could be a lot of potential for employers to refuse employment because an individual is a reservist if a law was passed, but I think there has to be something put in place to protect reservists.  Some unions permit unpaid or pay-equitied time-off for reserve training, but not everyone has that kind of (or any) union.  Something a little softer than the American system, perhaps a Monday Morning Bill or something -- protection from disciplinary action for coming in exhausted on a Monday with bits of green in their eyebrows (or blue cam paint if they're in the navy).  Of course, civi employers aren't the only boneheads, as Bubba points out.

Someone out there know how to initiate an action like this, and/or what's wrong with my reasoning?  I'd be interested in putting something like this forth.

Edit: Grammur

 
Dissident said:
I am a little weary of the federal enacting a law to protect reservist employment, or other consideration.

Talking to national guard members down south, they mention that some employers will discriminate when hiring, base on someones status as a reservist.

Although, the British way mentioned above, where an employer gets compensated from the government when an employee goes overseas, might e worth looking into.

I always liked the idea of hiring a active reservist gets you a tax deduction for your business. Certainly anything that helps the companies bottom line helps the Militia. The money to do so should come from the Treasury Department not the Department of Defense, as it is a net benefit to Canada as a whole. 
 
GAP said:
But have you actually approached your employer with the possibility?

Yes and this is the kind of thing that CFLC can be a lot of help with.

The unit may step up as well, there's nothing like a light colonel having a chat with your boss to make an impression. This goes a lot to how your unit runs and what the old man's attitude to this is (I wouldn't go button holing him for a visit, but I would, next time I talked to Ops, bounce the idea off of them "Say WO, I don't know if my civvie boss would be up to this, and I'm committed to the tour, but I have a great civ job, can someone help me work on my boss on this thing? ")

It's a very political exercise but don't throw the baby out with the bath water, not just yet.
 
Colin P said:
I always liked the idea of hiring a active reservist gets you a tax deduction for your business. Certainly anything that helps the companies bottom line helps the Militia. The money to do so should come from the Treasury Department not the Department of Defense, as it is a net benefit to Canada as a whole. 

And given the qualities & training most reservists bring to an employer, they're getting paid to take on an outstanding employee.  Win/win.
 
But have you actually approached your employer with the possibility? Some employers recognize the added value of someone who has gone out and proven themselves in real crisis management, and the maturity they bring back to that employer, as well as loyalty for being there afterwards.

Might be worth sounding out...they might surprise you.

I actually have, in a way.  I didn't tell my boss that I put my name in for a tour, but I brought the possibility of putting my name in for one.  He put it rather blunt.  My position within the company unfortunately cannot go un-attended for such a long period of time, therefore if I were to leave for a tour he would unfortunately have to replace me.

I am not as worried about finding another job.  I work in the IT field.  It's just that I have it good where I am (Im in charge of 9 people, company pays for my cell phone, gas when I travel, expenses etc etc)  I have become well established and already opened the door for myself in terms of advancement within the company and my career ahead.

It's something I have been, and will be thinking long and hard about until I get a call saying "there is a spot for me in work up training for roto X".  If I do decide to take a tour I understand it will be a complete life changing experience in terms of family and employment. 
 
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