Reserves and the RCMP (and Other Civilian Police)

[McInnes]

Look at the title of the page, Land Forces of Britain, the Empire and Commonwealth. Not part of the CF and not an official gov. web page. Also, they have had units sent overseas during times of war, which doesn't equate to being part of the CF.
1921  RCMP designated a "dragoon regiment"
When did the CF become the CF? yeah.
Cheers.

 

[Love793]

Sigh.... check this out then if your so smart
     
                 www.Regiments.org/regiments/na-canada/cav/rcmp.htm

I do believe he was referring to the current Canadian Forces/RCMP relationship.

They are a armed force, raised for His/Her majesty by Canada (Battle honours and all).  This is probably the reason for not allowing them as Reg or PRes members.  It probably falls somewhere in realm of a guy being Reg and Reserve at the same time.

 

[perry]

To my knowledge the RCMP left the order of march in battle sometime in the late 60's

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Sigh.... check this out then if your so smart

www.Regiments.org/regiments/na-canada/cav/rcmp.htm

Watch the sarcasm there bud...and check your facts.
They have no current connection with the Canadian Armed Forces. They are another stand alone force of the Government.

Taken from the official RCMP web site, you'll notice they are responsible to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness (currently the Deputy PM, IIRC), not the Minister of National Defence.

"The Royal Canadian Mounted Police is organized under the authority of the RCMP Act. In accordance with the Act, it is headed by the Commissioner, who, under the direction of the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness Canada, has the control and management of the Force and all matters connected therewith."

 

[HollywoodHitman]

To all thinking about rejoining should the legislation change regarding RCMP in the Reserves.....Be proactive in your verification of former service. Obtain certified copies of your military docs asap. I have recently heard of waiting times of up to 3 years to verify your former military service. That can throw a real wrench in your bid to re-join. SRR- I'm not sure you'll have that problem as your records are more than likely to be maintained at your former Bde HQ.

TM

 

[Meridian]

Does it have anything to do with postings? (Shot in the dark)

IF I recall conversations with RCMP friends, they said they can be posted prettymuch anywhere in CAnada, much like the military (although  much less frequenetly). If this is the case, then would it not create undue difficulty on the PRes (moving units, moving to remote areas with no military presence)...

Also... Isn't this sorta like having someone working as a paramedic and a cop?  If the shtf and everyone gets called out to an emergency, including those off shift... what do you show up as? cop with a stethoscope?

 

[noneck]

Q1 take Recce guys advice and sum up.

The RCMP is in no way alligned or attached with the CF. I have been fighting this battle, in conjunction with other former CF members for over 4 years now. The reason that was provided to me was that there is a conflict in a national state of emergency, the RCMP could not have members getting mobilized by their local Militia unit as they would most likely be required to stand to in their local community to assist in whatever capacity.

However my arguement is, that a local municipal copper is no less required in his or her community in an emergency or for that matter a Federal Customs or Corrections Officer. Do you think they would leave the prisons or border open and just not show up at work? Here in the Lower Mainland both Fed Corrections and Canadian Border Services are innundated with Militia members. In addition during this period of hightened security it would it not be prudent to have trained Federal Police officers with military skill sets for just such operations as the G8 in Kannanaskis, the 2010 Olympics in Whistler?

We are gaining support across the board including several local MP's and even have the support of the commanding Officer for Pacific Region RCMP D/Comm Busson. I believe this to be an old and outdated rule which eventually will be deleted.

Cheers
Noneck

 

[1feral1]

To sum up the RCMP is considered Paramilitary Force, and you can't be in two 'Forces' at the same time, hence why you cant be in the Militia.This is in writing somewhere as I have personally seen it in an official document, and a search here should be able to find it.

Over the years I have had some good long serving Militia friends who left that for the RCMP, and they too were informed of the same. Its one or another. I do have 'Mountie' freinds who are involved in Cadets as CIC offficers throughout Canada too.

RCMP issued items even have NSNs!

It would benifit all if the RCMP could also be Reservists. Good luck in the fight to have this ammended.

No use flogging a dead horse here, the issue is as plain as the nose on your faces.

Cold beers,

WEs

 

[HollywoodHitman]

The issue of who belongs to which National agency is somewhat moot. The fact is, the Reserves are a strictly voluntary endeavour. That being said, several disasters and states of emergency later, Reserve soldiers are still given the option to serve. The rules are archaic and who are we fooling? If there is an all out war and the Reserves are called up (not that they even could!), there's a good chance that those who have served as soldiers would again step out of their Serge to bring the war to the baddies. I'd like to think I would. I'm not about to stand by and watch while guys I know and have served with, pack up and go overseas to fight.........

Good luck you guys, I hope the Feds come to their senses. We've lost too many good and experienced soldiers to the RCMP, when they could easily do both and be of value.

TM

 

[Sheerin]

how does it work in the States and other countries for that matter?  Are FBI agents allowed to be members of the reserve or national guard?

 

[Love793]

how does it work in the States and other countries for that matter?   Are FBI agents allowed to be members of the reserve or national guard?

Different country, different laws

 

[George Wallace]

I think the answer has already been given in a previous post; that unlike other Police Forces in Canada, the RCMP are considered a Paramilitary Force, and as such its' members are not allowed to be in two "military forces" at the same time.  Exceptions would probably be made if it was in the performance of their duties and they were undercover.  Both RCMP and DND are paid by the Crown, where as other Forces are paid by the Municipality or Province.  Perhaps the matters of a conflict of interest and "double dipping" come into the picture also.

What the Rules and Regulations state are what we have to abide by.

GW

 

[Horse_Soldier]

I think the answer has already been given in a previous post; that unlike other Police Forces in Canada, the RCMP are considered a Paramilitary Force, and as such its' members are not allowed to be in two "military forces" at the same time.   Exceptions would probably be made if it was in the performance of their duties and they were undercover.   Both RCMP and DND are paid by the Crown, where as other Forces are paid by the Municipality or Province.   Perhaps the matters of a conflict of interest and "double dipping" come into the picture also.

What the Rules and Regulations state are what we have to abide by.

GW

I don't think the "double-dipping" is the issue here.  I work for the Federal Public Service in my day job and am thus also paid by the Crown for two different jobs and my civilian employer is very supportive of my being in the Primary Reserve.

 

[George Wallace]

That is a different case altogether...You are not in a Paramilitary Force and a Military Force at the same time......Your are in the "Civil" Service and the Reserves......therein lies the difference.

Gw

 

[combat_medic]

Whatever jurisdiction it falls under, it still doesn't allow the RCMP to serve in the military, currently.

One would imagine it would be a relatively simple matter for the federal government to write a piece of legislation stating the precedence of loyalties - if you're a federal or emergency services employee and serve in the MO, where do you report in time of emergencies. Avoid the possibility of confusion and state very clearly that if you're an RCMP officer and are called up, then you are not available for reserve service.

(then again, when has anything every been simply in the federal government)

For those who feel particularly strongly about joining the Mo as a mountie, why not write a few letters to your MPs, the MND, and the Minister for whatever cabinet office legislates the RCMP? Maybe they can put something on the table, or at least give you a reasonable excuse reason why the RCMP can't serve.

 

[Horse_Soldier]

That is a different case altogether...You are not in a Paramilitary Force and a Military Force at the same time......Your are in the "Civil" Service and the Reserves......therein lies the difference.

Gw

With all due respect, that has sweet nothing to do with the double-dipping concept.  All of us, military, RCMP and civil service are paid by the Crown.  The fact that RCMP members cannot be in the CF has nothing to do with who is paying - it is for altogether different reasons.

 

[George Wallace]

What I am trying to say is that you can be a Civil Servants and in, say, the Hasty P's; but you can not be in the 1 RCR and the LdSH (RC) at the same time.  As a matter of fact, you can't be a Civil Servant and a member of the Regular Force at the same time.

The same I would say about the RCMP and any CF Unit.

GW

 

[Meridian]

Boy would I like to be a clerk in the MND's office trying to find answers for all you guys... /sarcasm.

Has anyone ever gotten an official reason? Im curious if anyone on here is a mountie, or if this discussion is purely theoretical/hypothetical....

 

[noneck]

I have been in the Force for 5 years. In that 5 years I have written to my local MP John Cummins, who was extremely supportive and wrote a letter in support to the MND. The MND wrote a letter in reply saying no,but did not support his reason. When I replied to the MND's letter and asked for his reason why, I didn't get an answer back. I also went through the Ombudsmans office, they told me to exhaust the regular process first. However a former Chief of Land Staff's Deputy wrote a glowing letter stating that it was a " No brainer", but when it got to the General in charge of DHR Mil it got no further. But I am not ready to give up yet, as that former Deputy Chief of Land Staff is no other than the new CDS. So fingers crossed.

Just to clarify some issues, the RCMP is not in the CF Order of Battle, or Mobilization Plan. If it was, half the folks I work with would quit. Most members have no interest in the paramilitary past history, drill or discipline aspect of the RCMP. However there is a core group most of whom are either ex reg or reserve and a few with no prior service who would like nothing better than to serve in the P Res as a Militia soldier. In the LMD I have been in contact with 30 such members of the RCMP, with diverse backgrounds from Pte soldier to RMC educated Ex Reg F Captains.

Noneck

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Boy would I like to be a clerk in the MND's office trying to find answers for all you guys... /sarcasm.

Has anyone ever gotten an official reason? Im curious if anyone on here is a mountie, or if this discussion is purely theoretical/hypothetical....

It's not hypothetical. I addressed the reason on page 1 of the thread. I don't have the official document, but have been over this road before. I have seen the official explanation and the reason I posted reflects that document. They are a separate "Armed Force" of the Gov't and would be in conflict of interest, essentially serving two masters. It was the official reason given to two very good friends of mine who were both Reservists and joined the RCMP. One was an officer and had to relinquish his Commission in order to sever his ties with the CF. That's it in a nutshell.


noneck,

Maybe the hangup isn't with DND. Maybe it's the RCMP hierarchy that doesn't want it. Just a thought.