Reserve Pension- Merged

[geo]

After 26 pages or reading still a bit confused, thus hopefully this is the right place to pose this query.  My "official" relase date was Sept 2005, at that time I had requested to be transferred to the SHR, yet in the endless world of paperwork, this did not happen.  After a year (Aug 2006) I recieved my RFRG, and in Nov my NDI75.  At no time during my release process was I made aware (yes I accept fault 100% for that) off all the CANFORGEN's et al. regarding the rentention aspect in relation to the CIF date.  Might I have any options available to me at this time?  I am just curious and to what the "pension & buyback" would have amounted to.  Can anybody point me in the proper direction to pose such questions?

1st reaction to your predicament would be to say......... you're SOL about the reserve pension.
Just because you got your RFRG does not mean you are not on the Supp list.... ask
If you asked for the transfer & because of a bureaucratic goof, you were not signed on, I suggest you go back to your unit.  Ask them to process the correction... lots of bureaucracy - maybe they will accomodate you, maybe not.... but you have to ask.

Good luck!

 

[dapaterson]

CPP issue:

If your pay from your civilian employer is less than the Yearly Maximum Pensionable Income (YMPE) your contributions on your Reserve pay will increase your CPP benefits on retirement.  If you already reach YMPE on your civilian job, your contributions on your Reserve pay will still be deducted, then refunded when you file your tax return.

That should not amount to a significant difference on your return, though, since had it not been deducted as CPP contributions it would have been deducted as income tax.

It does highlight the need to fill out a TD-1 form (plus the equivalent provincial form) at your reserve unit as well; other wise, you may end up with too little tax deducted at source and you'll owe a chunk of money come income tax time.

 

[Rifleman62]

This confirms what David stated in the previous post. From the CFPMP Website, FAQs, that was recently updated.

Q34:    If I already work full-time and pay contributions on my earnings with my other employer, do I still pay CPP contributions on my Reserve Force earnings?
A34:    Every year, CPP sets the Year's Maximum Pensionable Earnings (YMPE). This is the earning ceiling on which you pay CPP contributions. In 2007, the YMPE is $43,700. The YMPE applies to your total employment earnings, regardless of how many employers you have.
All the same, you will pay CPP contributions on your Reserve Force earnings, even if you are already doing so on your earnings with another employer. Both the CF and your other employer must deduct CPP contributions without taking into account what is paid with the other employer. This is the case even if an employee pays the maximum contribution amount with one employer.
Any payments on your total earnings above the YMPE, however, will be refunded to you when you file your income tax return.

 

[Rifleman62]

Info below is from the CFPMP website, FAQs, recently updated. Has anyone seem this before, especially Q20/A20?  Has anyone out there been requested by the CFPMP folks or the Canadian Forces Pension Advisory Committee to be part of  "consultation and briefing of members as the regulations were being developed"?  Has anyone out there attended " extensive briefings", other than receiving the various incarnations of the March 2006 PPT on the CFPMP website (which are not extensive, nor informative other than a over view)? The only "focus groups" were the original  Mercer Group. When I brought up the 7% Compound Interest issue recently to the Project Director, he stated that this had never been brought up before. If anyone has been consulted, please post a reply.

I did receive a letter of reply (surprisingly) from the Chief of Reserves and Cadets. It was the usual " It is a complex undertaking involving other government departments and agencies but there is great cooperation and dedicated effort focused on this important endeavour." and "Considering the complexity of these technical issues, I am forwarding them to the Chief of Military Personnel so that they can be addressed in the appropriate level of detail, as time permits."  I realize it is complex dealing with other Federal Depts, but 7 years?

Communication and Information on CF Pension Modernization
Q19:    Was there any consultation on the proposed changes?
A19:    Consultations have been held with the Canadian Forces Pension Advisory Committee—the statutory body, composed of representatives of serving CF members and pensioners, responsible for providing advice to the Minister of National Defence on CF pension arrangements. In addition, focus groups and extensive briefings with CF members have been conducted nationwide.
We have also kept CF members informed through:
• newsletters,
• Maple Leaf, the weekly national newspaper
• official notices issued by the Assistant Deputy Minister (Human Resources-Military)
• CFPMP web site
• CFPMP mailbox
The CFPMP website will continue to keep you informed as things develop, and welcomes members' feedback.
Q20:    Will there be consultation on the regulations?
A20:    The Minister of National Defence made a personal commitment when the modernization amendments were before Parliament that there would be consultation and briefing of members as the regulations were being developed. The Canadian Forces Pension Advisory Committee is also committed to soliciting members' views on the new pension arrangements.

 

[geo]

No consultation that I know of at the LFQA side of the house...
Unless of course, they consulted Reg Force head shed cause the Reservists weren't around that day (colour me cynical  :-\ :-X )

 

[dapaterson]

No consultation that I know of at the LFQA side of the house...
Unless of course, they consulted Reg Force head shed cause the Reservists weren't around that day (colour me cynical  :-\ :-X )

There are no days with no Reservists in the HQs - I doubt any of the Area HQs, the Land Staff, or any of NDHQ would operate without Reservists...

And the last "consultations" I heard of were held a few weeks ago, where the fine folks in the pension office shared some (but not all) details with staff from the environmental commands - it as a "pass information" session, not a "gather ideas and consult" session.

No doubt there will be CDS commendations and promotions all 'round after this comes into force   

 

[Long in the tooth]

I recently attended my SCAN seminar as my RegF 20 is up.  Not surprisingly, when I asked 4 authorities present a question regarding pensions and terms of service I also got different answers.  It is well worth knowing that the pension act is NOT military but under civilian purview and the legislation is not clear.

I know I'll be stepping on some toes here.  So be it.  I am paying back $6500 for each year of pensionable reserve service, which is arcturiably reasonable.  It was easy to promise a 'Reserve Pension' but no one thought about the unfunded liability. 

 

[old fart]

I recently attended my SCAN seminar as my RegF 20 is up.  Not surprisingly, when I asked 4 authorities present a question regarding pensions and terms of service I also got different answers.  It is well worth knowing that the pension act is NOT military but under civilian purview and the legislation is not clear.

I know I'll be stepping on some toes here.  So be it.  I am paying back $6500 for each year of pensionable reserve service, which is arcturiably reasonable.  It was easy to promise a 'Reserve Pension' but no one thought about the unfunded liability. 

Worn Out Grunt (I was going to abbreviate that!), anyway do you care to restate the question?  I'm interested how the respones could apparently be so contradictory?

 

[Spr.Earl]

I recently attended my SCAN seminar as my RegF 20 is up.  Not surprisingly, when I asked 4 authorities present a question regarding pensions and terms of service I also got different answers.  It is well worth knowing that the pension act is NOT military but under civilian purview and the legislation is not clear.

I know I'll be stepping on some toes here.  So be it.  I am paying back $6500 for each year of pensionable reserve service, which is arcturiably reasonable.  It was easy to promise a 'Reserve Pension' but no one thought about the unfunded liability. 

Yup the typical bs and gobbledygook to rob us of our due.
Of late I have been wondering who is the MND?
Is it Hollywood Rick or what's his name Oh Yeh Gordon.

Nick

 

[dapaterson]

CANFORGEN 003/07 CDS 001/07 041155Z JAN 07
PENSION MODERNIZATION - SITREP
UNCLASSIFIED

REFERENCES: A. CANFORGEN 176/05 ADM(HR-MIL) 092 241255Z NOV 05
B. CANFORGEN 121/05 CDS 060/05 071600Z JUL 05

1. THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO PROVIDE AN UPDATE TO ALL CF MEMBERS ON THE STATUS OF CF PENSION MODERNIZATION

2. REF A ANNOUNCED THAT IMPLEMENTATION OF ALL NEW PENSION ARRANGEMENTS WAS TARGETTED FOR 1 MAR 07. DND/CF LEADERSHIP IS STILL COMMITTED TO THAT DATE. TREASURY BOARD APPROVAL WILL BE SOUGHT IN EARLY FEB 07, TO APPROVE REGULATIONS THAT WILL SUPPORT THE MODERNIZATION OF CURRENT PENSION ARRANGEMENTS AND ESTABLISH THE RESERVE FORCE PENSION PLAN EFFECTIVE 1 MAR 07

2. THE KEY ELEMENTS OF THE RESERVE FORCE PENSION PLAN AND AMENDMENTS TO THE RESERVE FORCE RETIREMENT GRATUITY FOR POST PENSION PLAN IMPLEMENTATION SERVICE ARE DETAILED AT REF B

3. ON 14 DEC 06, TREASURY BOARD MINISTERS APPROVED THE FIRST OF THE MODERNIZATION REGULATIONS. STARTING 1 JAN 07, ALL RESERVE FORCE EMPLOYMENT WILL BE SUBJECT TO THE CANADA PENSION PLAN (CPP). SPECIFICALLY, ALL RESERVE FORCE MEMBERS WHOSE ANNUAL EARNINGS ARE ABOVE THE YEAR S BASIC EXEMPTION SET UNDER THE CPP (CURRENTLY 3,500 DOLLARS ANNUALLY), WILL CONTRIBUTE TO THE CPP ON THE SAME BASIS AS ANY OTHER CANADIAN WORKER EARNING ABOVE THE BASIC EXEMPTION, REGARDLESS OF THE NATURE OR THE LENGTH OF THE RESERVE SERVICE. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON RESERVE CPP CONTRIBUTIONS WILL BE AVAILABLE SHORTLY ON THE CFPMP WEBSITE AT HTTP://WWW.FORCES.GC.CA/HR/DGCB/CFPMP/. QUESTIONS ON ACTUAL DEDUCTIONS AFTER 1 JAN 07 SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO YOUR UNIT PAY CLERK

4. FOLLOWING APPROVAL BY TREASURY BOARD MINISTERS OF PENSION MODERNIZATION REGULATIONS, DIRECTOR ACCOUNTS PROCESSING PAY AND PENSIONS (DAPPP) PENSIONS SERVICES WILL BE NOTIFYING ALL RESERVE FORCE MEMBERS WHO HAVE MET ELIGIBILITY THRESHOLDS FOR PARTICIPATION IN CF PENSION ARRANGEMENTS. RESERVE FORCE MEMBERS WILL ALSO BE ADVISED WHEN THEY ARE ELIGIBLE TO ELECT TO COUNT PRIOR RESERVE FORCE PERIODS FOR PENSION PURPOSES. WEB BASED CALCULATORS WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR MEMBERS TO ESTIMATE THE COST OF PURCHASING PREVIOUS EARNINGS AND FORECAST FUTURE BENEFITS

5. CALL CENTRES ARE BEING READIED TO ANSWER GENERAL PENSION QUERIES AS WELL AS QUESTIONS ON BOTH ELIGIBILITY AND ELECTIONS. YOU WILL BE ADVISED OF TELEPHONE NUMBERS ONCE FINAL APPROVAL OF PENSION MODERNIZATION INITIATIVES IS RECEIVED

6. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION WILL BE DISTRIBUTED EARLY IN THE NEW CALENDAR YEAR (2007) THROUGH THE CHAIN OF COMMAND, THE CFPMP WEBSITE AND THE ADM FIN CS PENSION WEBSITE AT HTTP://WWW.ADMFINCS.FORCES.GC.CA/PENSION/INTRO(UNDERSCORE)E.ASP

 

[dapaterson]

And further information:

This is a partial exceprt from a reply from the pension office discussing the situation of former Regular Force members in receipt of an annuity who currently serve with the Reserve Force.  For your info - and note that the regulations are not yet final, and could change.

Regular Force annuitants enrolling in the Reserve Force will never be allowed to participate in the Reserve Force Pension Plan (RFPP or CFSA Part I.1) when it is introduced.  Meeting the eligibility threshold is irrelevant - they will never make contributions nor build up pension credits under the RFPP.

Under the once in, always in rule, once you are a member of the Regular Force Plan (CFSA Part I), with few exceptions (i.e. releasing with a return of contributions) you will always be a member of that Plan.

The answer below has been developed on the basis that the current employment policy set out in ADM (HR-MIL) INSTRUCTION 20/04 (OPI:  DGPGP) does not change and that the proposed changes to the CFSA which have been set out in regulations are approved by Treasury Board.
Under the proposed changes, it is expected that once the new pension arrangements are in place, a Regular Force annuitant will essentially have the option of:

a. serving to a maximum of 330 days of Res F service within any one-year period while continuing to receive an annuity;

b. serving more than 330 days, and at least 365 days, at which time the member will be deemed to be re-enrolled in the CFSA. The member then ceases to be an annuitant and, again, becomes a contributor under Part I of the CFSA. If re-enrolled, the member will be allowed to elect for past service but if the election is for time where the member received an annuity, the member will have to return the annuity for the time he/she wants to elect; or

c. ceasing to be an annuitant at any time and contributing to Part 1 of the CFSA on a voluntary basis.  Again,  the member will be allowed to elect for past service but if the election is for time where the member received an annuity, the member will have to return the annuity for the time he/she wants to elect.  A decision such as this is not to be taken lightly.  A Regular Force annuitant taking this route will have to release from the Canadian Forces or go 12 months without earnings in order to reinstate their annuity.  Furthermore should they subsequently re-enroll in the Reserve Force the annuitant employment policy will no longer apply. [/list]

If anyone needs further clarification they can email +cfpmp@forces.gc.ca <mailto:+cfpmp@forces.gc.ca>.

 

[Long in the tooth]

Yup the typical bs and gobbledygook to rob us of our due.
Of late I have been wondering who is the MND?
Is it Hollywood Rick or what's his name Oh Yeh Gordon.

Nick

Once again, althought we as members of the military contribute to it, we do not administer the plan.  We are specific benificiaries of it.  Just like the CPP, politicians (good and bad) can promise benefits, but it goes into deficit if not funded.

And your 'due' is unfunded.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Yup the typical bs and gobbledygook to rob us of our due.
Of late I have been wondering who is the MND?
Is it Hollywood Rick or what's his name Oh Yeh Gordon.

Nick

Once again, althought we as members of the military contribute to it, we do not administer the plan.  We are specific benificiaries of it.  Just like the CPP, politicians (good and bad) can promise benefits, but it goes into deficit if not funded.

And your 'due' is unfunded.

What I mean by "Our Due" is to be treated equaly same as the Reg. Force.  = they pay the employer share if we pay our share - difficult to articulate if we don`t have the rule book at hand.


I will finance my share and expect the same from the Gov.
The promulgation of info from DND and the Gov. is quite lacking and has started to repeat it's self re: dapaterson's post.
That info came out last year.

What is in question is Class A time which 99.99% of Militia do every Militia night in Canada (thursday night and weekend ex.'s)
It appears we have to prove our service while on Class A,correct me if i'm wrong.Mine goes back to 76,I know of other's who go back to 67.

The word is all Class A time you have to prove.

 

[geo]

you have to prove all class A & B
having two pay systems (reg & res) and having changed pay systems a number of times - and old data was not "ported" over means that, at present, DND isn't able to prove all the information

T4 slips would be nice but, because you have all sort of allowances buried in there, they feel they can't take the T4s at face value... so they expect reservists to come up with their pay guides which it was DNDs responsibility to maintain, store & keep safe.

 

[Long in the tooth]

Anyone know when first reading in Parliament will be?

 

[54/102 CEF]

As I understand it - it passed the Parliament in the late 90s - its all to Treasury Board for 1 Mar 07 for the final signoff and activation.

 

[dapaterson]

Royal assent on 14 Sept 1999.  Final iteration of the regulations to Treasury Board in Feb 2007.  Coming-Into-Force (CIF)  of 01 March 2007.  Starting the pay of 15 march 2007 all eligible members will see pension contributions withheld from their pay.  It's the retroactive buyback that will be most problematic, for service prior to 1999 (that is, prior to RPSR).

There is ongoing work to try to recover all the RDS data - that's the pay system from pre-RPSR, going back to 1976.  If (and it's a big if) all that data is recovered, more than 95% of eligible reservists will be covered - and the remaining 5% will only have to find evidence of their pre-RDS service.

Fingers are crossed that the data recovery will go OK, since archives haven't sent me anything yet...

 

[Spr.Earl]

As I understand it - it passed the Parliament in the late 90s - its all to Treasury Board for 1 Mar 07 for the final signoff and activation.

Exactly 54,but is has been DND who has been putting up the hurdles in regards to a pension for the Militia.
Why?
Budget?

Most of our NATO Allies have some form of a pension for Militia/Reservist's which treat's the civilian volunteer equally or close too Reg. Force standards.

Why are we the last to treat our own citizen volunteer as slave labour?

 

[Stokers_Rule]

I apologize if the answer to this has been stated earlier.  I read back a years worth of posts and didn't see it.

My question is, my wife is currently a full time reserve making the old 85%.  If in March they start deducting the Pension contribution, will we be seeing a cut in pay or are they planning on increasing the Reserve pay?

Thanks and again sorry if this has already been addressed.

 

[dapaterson]

Stoker:

Net pay (the amount received after taxes and deductions) will probably be reduced, though the tax withheld will go down since the pension contributions are tax-deductible.

The gross pay (the daily rate reservists are paid) will not change; it will still be 85% of the equivalent Reg F rate of pay.