Repaying Allowances

[Michael OLeary]

The story didn't change and I didn't fully understand your last.

It is quite obvious here that no-one has any advice that will help your friend find the path she desires.  All she can do is submit a memorandum to her chain of command asking for what she wants, and then accept the decision that is handed down.  If she feels that decision disadvantages her in some way, she can always try a grievance.  By the time she finishes pursuing all of her administrative options fighting the normal course of events, she will have completed her compulsory service.

 

[armyvern]

Seems I've hit a nerve with you ArmyVern!  Mbr is a friend of mine and she doesn't have access to a computer right now.  Upon starting her release it was brought to her attention that reserve class A time may be possible for repayment of time.  And now would like to be more informed before approaching her OR as she too didn't believe Reserve Cl A would be an accepted "period of svc" but after reading up on the reg's and APM-245 Chapt 17, it appears that it may be possible.  It doesn't say you cannot transfer from Reg F to Res F to serve the time.  So, a PRes mbr receives MATA/PATA for 6 months and then transfers to the Reg F - she would have to repay the benefits?  I think not!

Actually, again IF you read it.

It says MATA/PATA is paid based upon "time" for full-time soldiers - those being RegF, ResF B & C Class. You'll note the exception in those same regulations that MATA/PATA is paid based upon "X number of days actually PAID service" for ResF Class A. NOT days service. Repayment then refers to the paying back of top-ups benefits for any shorter service post-MATA/PATA than that which you collected.
Entitlement to (or repayment of) MATA/PATA for A Class service only counts in "actual PAID days" ... What part of that do you not understand?

Here's a scenario for you:

An A Class Girl who works 10 days over a period of one year of service, thus generating 1 year of service, but only 10 days "paid" service. She then proceeds on Maternity Leave, collecting MATA top-up for ONLY 10 days that were actually "paid service" as per the regulations. 

She then comes back and decides she doesn't want to be in the CF anymore - she has two options:

1) Pay back those 10 days MATA top-up that she recd; OR
2) Actually report to work for 10 more days "paid service" (which a Class A pers could serve in a single month).

By your and your tongueless friend's argument on the "time" counts - thus:

That A Class girl would have to serve ONE more year (not just another 10 days despite only being paid for 10)!

Yet, your bud should get off doing 6 months part-time at what 3 or 4 days of actual work (and not her 183 days she was paid for)?

Give me a freaking break. You've got the part time soldier having to serve a full year and your RegF fulltime bud doing a mere 6 months?

THAT's the dumbest thing I've heard today. Actually, the dumbest thing I've heard so far this year.

 

[armyvern]

do you see the problem here?

If prepared why would she need to take out loans?  Where is the hardship?  Seems to me she wasn't prepared and someone dropped a little nugget that she is hoping will save her.  Here's my answer - do the full time - it really isn't that long.

Better question yet:

If the mysterious member was "anticipating" not serving her time, but just "couldn't stop her MATA top-up in time" ...

WHY did she spend it?
Having it deposited in the account is one thing, but krazykim has already admitted the member was aware she wasn't going to serve the time and that she KNEW repayment was in her future (because she signed that paperwork in order to collect the top-up in the first place).

Poor financial planning at it's best.

She knew she'd most likely have to repay it, but obviously spent it anyway - thus the requirement for loans.

I suppose that's the CFs problem and fault these days too.  :

 

[CountDC]

If prepared why would she need to take out loans?  Where is the hardship?  Seems to me she wasn't prepared and someone dropped a little nugget that she is hoping will save her.  Here's my answer - do the full time - it really isn't that long.

I see what you mean but 1 year isn't really that long but when you want to stay home with the kids until they go to school - it is a long time and then mbr would have to sign a new TOS which would not allow her to stay at home at all, by the time a new contract came up she'd be ready to work full time again.

1. it wouldn't be one year as she has to put in a 6 month notice for release anyways - that means doing another 6 months.

2. if she let them know she was only going to fulfill her obligatory service then they can issue her a FPS taking her to the date of release instead of a CE5 or IE25 or whatever TOS they are offering her.

3.  One year until the kids go to school?  Talk about pushing the kids ahead in life.

You seem to be missing the whole point here.  Doing something like this opens the door very wide for abuse of the system.  Even if your friend stuck around with the reserves to fulfil her time (which at this point is questionable) there is no guarantee that others will.  As I half-jokingly pointed out earlier - what is to keep me taking 9 months pata, trans to reserves and serve a total of 9 days to fulfill the agreement (by your comparison of 9 months res = 9 months reg).  The other thing is what is to keep her from just walking away once she is reserves?  Ever try to recover money from a reservist that went NES?  Far from easy.  By making them pay back before leaving the regs you are able to recover from pay, pension pay back, pension, etc. 

again - sign an FPS and do the time.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

 

[noway]

CBI:  205.461.(3)(d)

agrees to serve a period of service equivalent to the period during which the member received MATA, PATA or both, immediately on completing the maternity leave, parental leave or any other leave without pay and allowances as applicable.

Means:  you were given 1 year full time, you give back 1 year full time.

Correct to a point, as it means if you recieve 52 weeks of MATA/PATA you are required to serve 52 weeks.  Doesn't state that it must be full time service.

 

[PMedMoe]

Correct to a point, as it means if you recieve 52 weeks of MATA/PATA you are required to serve 52 weeks.  Doesn't state that it must be full time service.

And you would consider 52 weeks part time equivalent to 52 weeks full time??

equivalent
–adjective
1. equal in value, measure, force, effect, significance, etc

 

[noway]

Whether I think the member should serve the period of service as Reg F, or part-time as Res F, or pay a portion back isn't the issue.

I'm simply clarifiying the directives so that the person can proceed to the OR (which I believe is the next logical step), with some clear guidence which will allow them to make an informed decision.

 

[armyvern]

I'm simply clarifiying the directives so that the person can proceed to the OR (which I believe is the next logical step), with some clear guidence which will allow them to make an informed decision.

So that they "can proceed to the orderly room"?? Sorry - I thought that the role of the orderly room WAS to provide direction, clarify wrt to matters of benefits, entitlements, CTs etc.

I must have missed it when that changed. It seems you now think that's the role of the internet. :

I wonder if your girl is going to CT to the ResF (thereby rolling over that pension factor & losing that 'double-dipping' capability) or release from the RegF (thereby triggering the pay-back of those MATA top-up benefits) and then re-enrol into the ResF...

Careful what you wish for - you just might get it. (not my wisdom here - far from it - simply great words of warning from an Adm type).

 

[GI JANE]

noway - thanks for the info. 

As it turns out your interpretation (and mine) was correct.  Rumor has it that the policy is in the works to be changed but for now it remains.  Reserve time served = time served (not day worked for day worked).

 

[George Wallace]

noway - thanks for the info. 

As it turns out your interpretation (and mine) was correct.  Rumor has it that the policy is in the works to be changed but for now it remains.  Reserve time served = time served (not day worked for day worked).

Reserve time served = Time Served may be over simplified:

Class A = 1/4 Time
Class B =  Full Time
Class C =  Full Time with all benefits and Pay of Reg Force.


So this still leaves said "friend" having to Serve four times the amount of time taken on MATA if on Class A. 

 

[armyvern]

Reserve time served = Time Served may be over simplified:

Class A = 1/4 Time
Class B =  Full Time
Class C =  Full Time with all benefits and Pay of Reg Force.


So this still leaves said "friend" having to Serve four times the amount of time taken on MATA if on Class A.

Exactly; and, that's how it came down to us too.

 

[GI JANE]

You are wrong!  I am "said friend", I have now been released from Reg F and TRANSFERRED PRES.  Time that I owe is 1 week of reserve service (not days worked) = 1 week of time served.  Just like calculating a CD - this also means that ED&T or NES during this time owed will trigger pay back of MATA/PATA allowances.  Directives are directives and this is how this one should be interpretted - regardless of your personal opinion of the directive.

 

[PMedMoe]

Time that I owe is 1 week of reserve service (not days worked) = 1 week of time served.  Just like calculating a CD - this also means that ED&T or NES during this time owed will trigger pay back of MATA/PATA allowances.  Directives are directives and this is how this one should be interpretted - regardless of your personal opinion of the directive.

As it turns out your interpretation (and mine) was correct.  Rumor has it that the policy is in the works to be changed but for now it remains.  Reserve time served = time served (not day worked for day worked).

Wow, I'd should go and get my reserve time recalculated for my pension and pay before this changes!  :

Considering they totally ignored my Class A days.

 

[GI JANE]

That is very misleading.  This has nothing to do with pension or the calculation used for determining pensionable time for buy back.

 

[GI JANE]

CBI:  205.461.(3)(d)

agrees to serve a period of service equivalent to the period during which the member received MATA, PATA or both, immediately on completing the maternity leave, parental leave or any other leave without pay and allowances as applicable.

Means:  you were given 1 year full time, you give back 1 year full time.

 

[PMedMoe]

That is very misleading.  This has nothing to do with pension or the calculation used for determining pensionable time for buy back.

Why is that?  If the directive deems that 1 year of Class A = 1 year of service for allowance purposes, why not for previous time served (never mind pension)?

 

[GI JANE]

??  I don't know why.  The CBI refers to MATA/PATA allowances only.

 

[George Wallace]

CBI:  205.461.(3)(d)

Means:  you were given 1 year full time, you give back 1 year full time.

:


CLASS  A  is NOT  FULL  TIME.

 

[GI JANE]

Correct.  I mean't

CBI:  205.461.(3)(d)

Means:  you were given 1 year MATA/PATA, you give back 1 year of service time either Reg F or PRES.  You cannot have a break in service though.  If you go to the Sup Res List - this is a break in service - Sup res does not count towards service in this instance.