Redress of Grievance – Mega thread [MERGED]

[Neill McKay]

To add a little bit, we often use "Redress" in a way that's not quite correct and is probably confusing to some: we talk about submitting a "redress of grievance" when in fact what we are submitting is a memo asking for a redress, i.e. solution, to our grievance.

 

[Harris]

Personally, I'd try sending a memo to your boss first and ask to have the PER edited to include the additional courses/training.  If that doesn't work, then I'd go the grievance route.  Is there some reason they weren't included, and did you mention it when you signed your PER?

 

[RHFC_piper]

Personally, I'd try sending a memo to your boss first and ask to have the PER edited to include the additional courses/training.  If that doesn't work, then I'd go the grievance route.  Is there some reason they weren't included, and did you mention it when you signed your PER?

This is probably the best way to start...  Talk to you CoC first and address it through normal admin routes first.

This is even suggested in the manual;

2.2 Informal Resolution

The benefits of adopting an informal approach to complaint resolution are significant. Informal resolution of a complaint can take less time and be far less stressful. Where individuals undertake to resolve a complaint informally, they retain more control over the outcome, and the solutions reached are often more satisfying and more durable than those that are imposed by a third party or through more formal means. Therefore, all parties are encouraged to seek a solution to their concerns in the least formal and most appropriate means possible. The right to grieve does not preclude a verbal request for resolution directly to the Commanding Officer (CO) prior to submitting a grievance. Even after a grievance is submitted, grievors may still withdraw or have their grievances put in abeyance in favour of pursuing an informal resolution.

2.3 Alternate Dispute Resolution

CANFORGEN 064/03 (Conflict Management Program) provides that when a conflict situation occurs, military and civilian personnel must be given the opportunity to consider the various alternate dispute resolution (ADR) options available to deal with their disputes and be provided assistance in making informed choices, particularly at the first stage of the complaint process. ADR does not mean formal mediation, which is a form of ADR. ADR includes all possible avenues to resolve a conflict early, locally and informally such as conciliation, coaching, facilitation or a simple discussion between the parties involved. Both the CF and DND encourage and are considering making ADR a first and compulsory step in conflict resolution. It is therefore incumbent upon all CF personnel to take advantage, where appropriate, of the services offered by the Dispute Resolution Centres (DRCs).

Unless, of course, you've already tried these routes.

 

[pte4life]

I dont want to step on anyone's shoes, or upset anyone. It's upsetting receiving the PER which was issued to me, considering the individual left out all of my summer courses and takings. Somehow my unit lost my PDR which stated everything i did over the course of summer prob consisting of over 60% of my yearly attendance. Then my next higher asked for me to provide him with a list of all my courses and trg, and even that never reached my PER. Ironically i was praised for writing such a detailed account of events.

Despite my frustration, I still want to have this amended in the most informal method possible, since that's likely to be the most productive method to have any sort of praise included within my evaluation. That's why i was asking if there was a difference between a redress and a grievance, even though now i know that a redress of grievance is one and the same, and that there is no separation of that form of complaint. But again, if informal methods are available, and generate acceptable progress, these  are almost always the best route to take.

 

[RHFC_piper]

pte4life,

I have been in much the same predicament;  For my first 4 years in, no one updated my UER or Pers File (I was listed as a Pte (R) in peoplesoft 2 years after being promoted to Cpl.).  I had no idea there was any issue until I was set to go on a course and decided to take a look at my UER...  It was blank.  It had one course report from my QL2 (BMQ) and thats it.

Luckily, I had kept every single pay statement I ever received, kept copies of course reports and tracked, on a calendar, every exercise, event, course (including band gigs) I had ever participated in.  So, one day I sat down and updated everything and had the Pipe Major and OC sign off on everything.

So, lesson learned; Keep track of your career, 'cause someone else may not be.  (and it really is your responsibility... )


In your situation, I would suggest the informal route first; talk to you chain of command...if nothing comes of it, write a memo... if nothing comes of it after that, then file a grievance and await a redress.  As long as you don't make it a personal thing (give attitude), then you shouldn't be stepping on toes... This process is is 100% legitimate, and professional... no one should have an issue as long as you proceed without prejudice, emotion or attitude and exude nothing but professionalism... And keep track of everything; dates/times/location/details of conversation, copies of Memos and, if it goes that far; copies of statement of grievance. 
Make sure all your information is accurate and well documented.

Anyway, I hope all works out for you... and just keep a personal account of your career for just such an emergency in the future. 

Good luck.

 

[PMedMoe]

If your PER has not left the unit, the best solution is to go through your chain of command and request to have it rewritten to include the missing information.  Last year, some minor points on my PER got changed after my supervisors and I discussed it.

If this is not the case, you will more than likely have to go through the grievance process.  Normally, you are supposed to submit this within six months of the event occurring, unless there are extenuating circumstances (you were tasked, on tour, posted, etc).  Make sure you get an assisting officer as well.

I just had a very positive conclusion to a grievance that I filed in November 2006.  It may be a long process, but try to be patient!!

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I strongly suggest that you try to achieve your aim thru other means first, IAW Article 2.3 of the Manual.  Talk to your Chain of Command first.  If they don't take it serious, submit a memo asking to see your Platoon WO, Lt, whoever is the next highest up from where you are getting the cone of silence.

If you DO submit a grievance, I STRONGLY suggest that you request an Assisting Member IAW Art 5.3 of the Grievance Manaul.  The Assisting Member is not there to assist you in content per say or to advocate on your behalf, but they can be vital in the submission of a well-worded, clear grievance.  They will also advise you on the process, assist you to in tapping into ADR resources, etc etc.

5.3 The Assisting Member
The appointment of an Assisting Member is mandatory once a grievor makes a request to the CO (QR&O 7.03(1) (Assistance)). Ideally, the officer or non-commissioned member so assigned should be an individual selected by the grievor. However, if this is not practical, the CO may appoint someone else. The grievor is not obliged to accept or use the substitute offered by the CO.

The role of the Assisting Member is limited to ensuring that the grievor is familiar with the grievance rules and procedures and to helping the grievor to articulate clearly, completely and concisely the grievance and redress sought. While the Assisting Member may assist in all aspects of information and evidence gathering in support of the grievance at each level, it is the grievor's responsibility to make their own case. The Assisting Member is not the grievor's advocate, lawyer or representative and is not permitted to speak formally on behalf of, or in any way officially represent, the grievor within the grievance process.

Again I strongly suggest you try to do this thru lower level avenues, but encourage you to follow it thru, however the first question you might ask is will it change your PER any?  You 10-07 will always reflect any/all reserve service provided that your admin is done correctly by your unit.  Not all taskings I did ended up on my PER per say when I was PRes because there were so many of them during a given reporting period.  My UER reflected these taskings and my 10-07 as well...something to consider.  Are you concerned this will affect a future CT, or promotion or something?

 

[pte4life]

If your PER has not left the unit, the best solution is to go through your chain of command and request to have it rewritten to include the missing information.  Last year, some minor points on my PER got changed after my supervisors and I discussed it.

If this is not the case, you will more than likely have to go through the grievance process.  Normally, you are supposed to submit this within six months of the event occurring, unless there are extenuating circumstances (you were tasked, on tour, posted, etc).  Make sure you get an assisting officer as well.

I just had a very positive conclusion to a grievance that I filed in November 2006.  It may be a long process, but try to be patient!!

Can my assisting officer also be my OC? Or does the assisting officer have to be someone outside your chain of command?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Can my assisting officer also be my OC? Or does the assisting officer have to be someone outside your chain of command?

It is an Assisting Member, which can be an Officer.  In my case, I used one outside my CoC but that is up to your CO and you.  Read my post above on Art 5.3

 

[pte4life]

It is an Assisting Member, which can be an Officer.  In my case, I used one outside my CoC but that is up to your CO and you.  Read my post above on Art 5.3

I want my PER to be re-assessed because I feel like i am better than my PER made me out to be. As it was written, it picked out primarially negitive traits which occured over the course of 2 exercises. It seems silly to accept a negitive PER which hardly credits the soldier for their achievements, and positive contrabutions when you're being ranked amongst your peers. Especially when it has pull regarding competition for taskings, promotins and tours. I simply want to be credited for my successes, and have my training acknowledged, instead of looking like a lazy slob.

 

[GAP]

I am out of my lane here, but given that, is not the PER not only for recognizing effort on the part of the soldier, but on areas he/she need to improve on?  If you were noted as having areas that need improving, why not just improve?

Remember, the person making the evaluation is on the outside looking in.....there's lots of stuff I thought I was doing adequately, sometimes terrifically, only to find out I had it all wrong from the get go.....

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I want my PER to be re-assessed because I feel like i am better than my PER made me out to be. As it was written, it picked out primarially negitive traits which occured over the course of 2 exercises. It seems silly to accept a negitive PER which hardly credits the soldier for their achievements, and positive contrabutions when you're being ranked amongst your peers. Especially when it has pull regarding competition for taskings, promotins and tours. I simply want to be credited for my successes, and have my training acknowledged, instead of looking like a lazy slob.

Ok this changes the intent of you Grievance then, from "they didn't put a few exercises and tasking on it" to "I do not agree with my PER at all".

Correct or incorrect?  For us to give good advice, you need to give us good facts. 

 

[pte4life]

Ok this changes the intent of you Grievance then, from "they didn't put a few exercises and tasking on it" to "I do not agree with my PER at all".

Correct or incorrect?  For us to give good advice, you need to give us good facts. 

From restructuring the chain of command, and changing from one troop to another, my higher had very little information to assess from. My unit not properly doing their job as stated in the CFPAS where "It is the responsibility of the parent unit to collect and collate all PDRs and other related documents from all other units, detachments or locations where their personnel are/have been employed and incorporate them into the Annual PER." If my unit can't properly do this job, it effects my highers in assessing me. It sucks that the same higher who didnt have access to past PDR's because they were 'lost', didn't use the reiteration which i wrote at his request stating everything i completed, trg, crses, and quals; and i have no idea why he choose not to include any of this information, unless he lost the email, and was too proud to ask for a second copy... or maybe he just forgot about it? I dont know.

It seems to me that if they have more positive information to go off of, and i dont aggressively persue the issue - as a redress for example - then i am most likely to get benificial results. Unless you think something different? I'm more than open to hearing opinions.

 

[pte4life]

I am out of my lane here, but given that, is not the PER not only for recognizing effort on the part of the soldier, but on areas he/she need to improve on?  If you were noted as having areas that need improving, why not just improve?

Remember, the person making the evaluation is on the outside looking in.....there's lots of stuff I thought I was doing adequately, sometimes terrifically, only to find out I had it all wrong from the get go.....

Ya the PER is also to report on the soldiers progress over the duratio of an entire FY. Noting on the progress of a soldier over the course of 2 ex's is a faint reflection of what the intent of such a document is to report.

Of course i could just improve, unless what happens in actuality is that when duties are preformed well, there is not documentation or PDR's to reflect that ethic. It's all based on the paper trail, take a look at basic for example, the top rated soldiers are those who get the best marks on their tests. The actual top soldier may be a slight exception, but grades need to be substantiated by evidence. It doesn't matter how well you do your job day to day or in the field if no one takes notice and reports it.

My point is that if there's serious and highly relivant documentation missing from my file - meaning that there is nothing for my highers to reference with regards to progress. If you have one rough ex, even in the case where it the all too common "my mistake, your fault" syndrome, as happened to me. You get a shitty review if there's nothing to counteract that point. Especially if they're newly promoted and haven't worked with you indepth for the entire year. To leave out a received promotion in the area  of 'new qualifications' on a PER is certainly at fault of a slightly overlooking, or failing to note certain aspects of the soldiers progression over the year. I dont think you can effectively argue that very strongly.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

As I have never redressed a PER before, I think I should opt out of advice on this subject seeing the reasons and wait for someone who has redressed a PER or dealt with a mbr who has redressed a PER to wade in, as I would simply be speaking out of my lower hole on this issue.

 

[George Wallace]

I want my PER to be re-assessed because I feel like i am better than my PER made me out to be. As it was written, it picked out primarially negitive traits which occured over the course of 2 exercises.

If you really look at what a person may have done throughout a year in Garrison, and on Exercise; the Exercise will usually trump sitting around a hangar sipping a Tims in Garrison, when it comes down to assessing a Soldiers abilities, skills and potential.  I don't want to be condensending, but perhaps the view your superiors have of your attributes and your own view of yourself are at opposite ends of the spectrum.  Perhaps, you may want to reflect some.  It is a possibility that when the chips were down in the Field you did not shine, and many of your peers did.

 

[PuckChaser]

If you have negative points on your PER, there should be documentation on various PDRs in your file to prove it was a deficiency which was counseled but not corrected by the member. If you didn't get PDRs, you may be well on your way to having things changed, either formally or informally. How can you really be expected to correct a problem noticed by your supervisor that was big enough for a PER, if you're not told that it was a problem in the first place?

 

[MJP]

If you really look at what a person may have done throughout a year in Garrison, and on Exercise; the Exercise will usually trump sitting around a hangar sipping a Tims in Garrison, when it comes down to assessing a Soldiers abilities, skills and potential.  I don't want to be condensending, but perhaps the view your superiors have of your attributes and your own view of yourself are at opposite ends of the spectrum.  Perhaps, you may want to reflect some.  It is a possibility that when the chips were down in the Field you did not shine, and many of your peers did.

I agree...however it sounds like they were basing his PER on a few weekend ex's rather than a large chunk of fulltime tasking.  If I was writing him up I would put more weight on how he/she did over a long term contract rather than base an entire PER on a few weekend Ex's.  IMHO someone didn't do their homework before they wrote the PER.  I have written (as have many others) a good amount of PDRs and PERs without really knowing the soldier.  However I always got a detailed PDR Part 3/4 from the member including their supervisors name if they were from or were out of unit.  I always emailed/called their old supervisor to make sure what I was writing was accurate.

If you have negative points on your PER, there should be documentation on various PDRs in your file to prove it was a deficiency which was counseled but not corrected by the member. If you didn't get PDRs, you may be well on your way to having things changed, either formally or informally. How can you really be expected to correct a problem noticed by your supervisor that was big enough for a PER, if you're not told that it was a problem in the first place?

Exactomondo!

A soldier should never see a point to improve for the first time on a PDR/PER especially if it is a major developing point.  Seeing it on a PER without prior substantiation is so ground for redress and the only person to blame (even if the PER is accurate) is his supervisor.

P4L,

Do exactly what you have already been told here on the forum.  Seek clarification through informal channels at the lowest level possible and try and get it fixed.  If that fails or answers given don't meet what you feel is your performance is  then go through the steps and properly redress your PER.

 

[George Wallace]

And the points about finding out about a 'short coming' on the PER that was not mentioned in a PDR are very important.  That is why the PDR System was started; to make the PER System as close to being 'perfect' as possible.  Your supervisors should also have been using the manuals with the 'word pictures' to match the scores.  Your narrative should match what your score was.

 

[pte4life]

Well then i'll let the forum know what happens in the long run. I do not expect to learn much about the subject aside from what i learn through reading and advice and help from members here.