Recruit training discipline

[dannybou]

After reading alot of posts in this forum, I was wandering what the difference is between discipline in basic training from 1980, when I went through, to now in 2004. In 1980, the swearing, yelling, harsh PT, pushups (25 to 50), manhandling and at times, although rarely, some hitting. Nothing was said back then as it was par for the course and part of the discipline process. Now I have heard and read that now the instructors are not supposed to yell and swear and something about cards?? Can someone set me straight please? Thanks

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Manhandling and hitting?? I‘m sorry dannybou, I went through in 1978 and I don‘t recall either of these.

 

[AlphaCharlie]

god ****! swearing is just as much a part of the army as uniforms are!

 

[dannybou]

Originally posted by Bruce Monkhouse:
[qb] Manhandling and hitting?? I‘m sorry dannybou, I went through in 1978 and I don‘t recall either of these. [/qb]

Well let me explain what I mean. Manhandling by the instructors when you would drop your FN on a parade square, when you would march like a yogy that kind of manhandling. Hitting?? Oh yes, was witness to a couple of incidents. When one recruit actually laughed when during an inspection, his recruit neighbour was having his day of having his kit thrown all over the floor. When the instructor saw that, he left that recruit to immediately go over to the laughing one and slapped him across the face. Like my post said, I mentionned it had happended on rare occasions.

 

[MP 811]

Basic today is a joke. You have infantry instructors who are not allowed to swear and its quite funny actually to see these guys try very hard to not use the odd word here and there when trying to sort out his troops. As for the stress card, I have heard of it, but havent seen it. Rumor has it that a recruit can flash this coloured card at an instructor and say that he‘s stressing him out. The instructor then has to lay off the recruit for the day. I stress this is a rumor though as recruits aren‘t given any "stress cards" at the beginning to BRT.

 

[Redeye]

That‘s an ancient rumour, and no such thing has ever existed in the CF. It started as a concept for the US Army and made it north only as a rumour. Technically, instructors aren‘t supposed to yell or swear - but it‘s not like anyone expects anything different. So long as they don‘t "single anyone out" for rough treatment they‘re okay. Usually the real bags become obvious to their fellow recruits who then would sort them out. Any course I‘ve been on it‘s always worked that way.

 

[Gayson]

Instructors still scream and yell.

These days if they give you PT they have to do it as well.

Rules do get broken though.

 

[48Highlander]

We‘re still allowed to swear goddamit. The day I get told that I can‘t use bad words because that makes me a potty-mouth is the day I quit the army and join the Girl Guides.

 

[PnkrWeb]

well i heard that if the instructor  make u do pushup  the instructor need ot make them to with u same as for PT

 

[Pikache]

well i heard that if the instructor   make u do pushup   the instructor need ot make them to with u same as for PT

And NCOs are not allowed to dispense push ups to the platoon for disciplinary purpose apparently.

Or am I wrong?

 

[Fraser.g]

Royal Highlander,

Only the CO or his apointed deputy can administer or oreder to be administered diciplineary action. An NCO can give out corrective training. The corrective training must fit the infraction. Push ups are not apropreate for being late for a class. They are for being unable to lift a load with your upper body like a secton of bridge or other engineering equiptment.
If you are slack on the parade square, push ups are not going to fly but extra drill is.

Hope this clears things up.

Also, if an NCO yells all the time he or she is not going to get the troops attention when it is necisary by yelling. In the troops mind that is just the noise that that NCO makes.

 

[Pikache]

So how should troops who's being late often be corrected?

If a troop doesn't find NCOs yelling or giving them a lecture... intimidating and convincing to learn why he should not be late, then what, charge the troop?
Shouldn't there be measure before a troop be charged over such matters as being late?

When I did my basic, I was... apprehensive whenever someone of higher rank talked to me because that is the way it should be; as a recruit, anyone with a higher rank deserves respect for his rank and I should pay attention to whatever I'm being told.
But I must have been an oddball because a lot of recruits I see don't find anyone with a leaf intimidating.

I never found a set of ten or twenty push ups done by the platoon to break a troop, but a good... motivator and a reason to not be late again (or other similar... problems)

 

[sgt_mandal]

then what, charge the troop?

What is exactly meant by "charging the troop"? Do they actually have to pay? Or is it a figure of speach?

 

[Scratch_043]

then what, charge the troop?

What is exactly meant by "charging the troop"? Do they actually have to pay? Or is it a figure of speech?

we have a spell checker now.

I believe he means a monetary fine for the action.

 

[sgt_mandal]

How much do they have to pay?

 

[Redeye]

then what, charge the troop?

What is exactly meant by "charging the troop"? Do they actually have to pay? Or is it a figure of speach?

It means to lay a charge against the troop under the National Defence Act for violating the Queen's Regulations & Orders or the Canadian Forces Administrative Orders.  The accused can elect to face a summary trial (in front of his/her CO or other designated officer) or a court martial (usually reserved only for serious offenses).  For most minor things (rusty rifle, drunk & disorderly, or the infamous "129" catchall charge), the penalties are fines.  Other less common outcomes might be reduction in rank, for example.

The summary trial involves the accused being marched by the RSM before the presiding officer, during which he is not permitted to wear his headdress.  This is why they are called "the hatless dance".  The accused has the right to an Assisting Officer, whose job is to ensure that he understands what he is being charged with and makes sure that all appropriate information is brought to light.  It's not a "barrack room Matlock" kind of thing, just assistance to make sure the process serves its just purpose.

 

[AlphaCharlie]

On my BMQ we got pushups a lot. Drop your rifle during drill? That means you lack upper body strength. Pushups. Falling asleep in class? Not enough blood pumping. Pushups. Late for your timing? Pushups. PT? Pushups.

 

[clasper]

There are lots of ways to make push ups "corrective" rather than punitive.   Whenever a recruit called me Sgt instead of MCpl, they got to do "rank structure pushups".   Instead of counting them out "1- MCpl, 2- MCpl, 3- MCpl..." the offending recruit had to go through the rank structure on each downstroke, and then my rank on the upstroke: "Pte- MCpl, Cpl- MCpl, MCpl- MCpl..."   For a recruit who is a minute late for a timing, you can demonstrate the length of a minute by leading them in PT for one minute.   I normally took the total time to complete one push up (1/4 of the way down, 1/2 way down, 3/4 of the way down, 1/2 way up, etc.)   When the platoon finally recovers, they'll normally make sure Bloggins isn't late again.

As for swearing at recruits, I had the dubious distinction (in 97) of nearly being charged for swearing at recruits.   Lucky for me, the RSM convinced the commandant that he could take care of the discipline problem (me) without resorting to a charge.   Funny thing was, I hardly ever swore at the recruits, unlike some of my colleagues.   I just happened to let a couple of profanities slip out at a particularly deserving recruit within earshot of an MP.   Oops.

 

[sgt_mandal]

Not being allowed to at least swear, in my oppinion, sort of takes away some of the "umph" or "chutzpah" of being a soldier. Makes it soud too boring. Especially after watching movies like Full Metal Jacket, you would think the army is hard core (I know FMJ was about the Marines, but I'm sure you can see the connection I am trying to make).

 

[AlphaCharlie]

I dont know where you guys were training but in my BMQ (same course as I posted about above) the instructors swore at us... y'eno like "get a f*cking grip on your kit!"

Mind you, I don't know if this new regulation is no swearing or just no calling troops names with swearing in it (i.e. you f*ckheads!) but they can still swear in general?