Re: 2 Snowbird Crash

[darcy175]

I saw on CTV the toronto edition, they had a poll on if the snowbird should be disbanded. i thought id bring this up and see what anyone else thinks.

I know i love watching the snowbirds and i think they should stay

 

[pbi]

"It's a luxury," said former colonel Michel Drapeau, "and I think the time has come to question [it] and possibly do without."

Oh---right---now THERE'S a really credible military critic. This is the same genius who said that if 3PPCLI were "properly trained" they would not have been doing night live fire training at Tarnak Farms: immediately revealing that he has no idea of what in-theatre training is about. I would hardly call this a "heavyweight" comment. Cheers.

 

[Bograt]

pbi,

Although I agree with your characterization of the messanger, his message is not out there for public consuption. The CBC flipped through their rollerdeck and found a guy who would say that the snowbirds should be disbanded. Miles isn't even buried yet.

I fear that credibility doesn't matter anymore when it comes to the CBC. Their story producers have an agenda and it is articulated by the "experts for hire."

As an aside, I was listening to Newsworld the day after the crash, and the CBC reported asked the Snowbird PR person "What was the mood like at the base?" What a fucking stupid question!

 

[pbi]

You are right, I fear: the left-wing is deeply rooted in the CBC, as much as I like MotherCorp for some other reasons. Cheers.

 

[JBP]

Yes, they should disband the 40 year old flying rustbuckets called the Snowbirds....

And replace them with new CF-18C (or D) Hornets! That way they could put on an even better show in jets that are still relatively modern. (Only 25 yrs old!) HAR HAR!  :

Really though, I've loved the Snowbirds since I was a kid but I have ALWAYS thought they should be upgraded to new jets. I mean c'mon, the US Navy has the Blue Angels, those are F-18's! I think one of the reasons they haven't upgraded though is because the nice Tudor's can run from a much smaller runway in general which means they can run from MANY more airports and locations. If they used CF-18's they wouldn't be able to run thier shows from half the places they currently do. Just my thoughts!

Anyway, no, they should be kept because they are one of the only things that the Canadian populace has to view our forces and as a connection therein.

Accidents happen, it's a very high-risk activity, casualty rates on US Carriers for pilots on active duty can be as high as 1 out of every 4 pilots dying! THAT is crazy. 3 Snowbirds over like 35 years is really not that bad although I do feel the sting in my heart when this happens...

Joe
Much respect for the people who fly them!

 

[Goober]

Speaking of replacement jets, I found a great website http://www.newjetsforsnowbirds.com

 

[c4th]

CBC 14 Dec "Some critics, however, say the Snowbirds should be scrapped and their $10-million budget directed elsewhere. The aging jets, which are older than the pilots who fly them, should be retired. "It's a luxury," said former colonel Michel Drapeau, "and I think the time has come to question [it] and possibly do without.""

I'm not sure where Col Drapeau expertise lies outside of Military Law.  Judging from the rack of medals (read 2), the Tan DEU's and no wings (pilot) I will assume that it is not in Air Force Operations or Combined Arms operations. 

Col Drapeau ran for the conservative seat in Ottawa during the 1997 Federal Election.  His bio does not indicate that he won.

In my opinion When a failed conservative politician who just happens to be a Colonel with what appears to be limited operational experience speaks of disbanding anything, I would chalk it up to nothing more DND / Liberal bashing.

I agree with the previous posts.  $10 Million seems to be a drop in the pan to keep nine senior pilots and a squadron running twelve months a year.  I think most Reserve Units (Coy +)  budget around $2 Million.  The PR, recruiting, and advanced pilot training are easily worth the money.

If this accident succeeds in becoming a political football, which the likes of Col Drapeau have attempted to put in play, I will personally be disgusted.

Capt Selby and the Snowbirds deserve better.

 

[Goober]

10 million cost, 70 million profit according to the site I posted. The site says the airshow is a 1 billion dollar industry in Canada. The GST generated from that is 70 million. The Snowbirds are a HUGE draw for the airshows they attend. If they weren't on the ticket, you would be sure to see attendence drop.

From a business perspective, it makes sense to keep them to me.

 

[Pieman]

Speaking of replacement jets, I found a great website http://www.newjetsforsnowbirds.com

Nice Post. I signed the petition, I can't remember going to a major event and not having the Snowbirds do a fly over, it is just part of the routine. I watched them at a couple of air shows when I was younger, they are by far the stars of the show. If they were to get new jets, then what aircraft would they likely get now?

 

[sguido]

*snip*
If they were to get new jets, then what aircraft would they likely get now?

Forget Hornets.   Isn't going to happen.   The Blue Angels have the money for it; we don't.   (And there was talk of them transiting to the Goshawk, a derivative of the BAE Hawk modified for carrier ops.     {The USN/USMC deployed squadrons *once* suffered 1 in 4 casualty rates...during the Vietnam War.   It's nowhere near that number now.})

If the Snowbirds continue on with jets, they'll most likely receive the BAE Hawk.   Tandem seating is a *big* plus over the Tutors.   (But is Bombardier going to get that contract, too?)

If they choose turboprops, the Harvard II.   I hope not, seeing as how there is a *civilian* jet team flying F-104's.

The Snowbirds are a huge draw at airshows south of the border.   They have often been the closing act...edging out the home crowd's Thunderbirds and Blue Angels.   It would be a shame if they had to downgrade to props...

For more info on those potential replacements, you can visit www.nftc.net

 

[aesop081]

I could definately see the hawk as a replacement.  This is what the british are using for the red arrows and it seems to work pretty good.  I saw them once and was pretty impressed.  I would be saddened if the snowbirds were disbanded...they are great ambasadors for the CF and something to aspire to for CF pilots ( IMHO).

 

[casca]

I feel that the Snowbirds are a necessary part of the CF. It brings in more then money! it's a sense of pride! To see them fly over the parliament buildings during Canada Day is always a great image.They are one of the best air demonstration teams in the world! For only $10 million a year it's well worth the money in my eyes. Looking at their flight safety record, it's one of the best around.  RIP Capt Selby

 

[Northern Touch]

The snowbirds shold definitly be kept around.  They are a great for publisizing the CF, but it is unforunite that accidents happen and people do sometimes die.  It's time for some new planes.  They are representing the CF and although its probably not possible to use F-18's, using trainers  older then some of the people flying them doesn't cut it.  CF-18's shoudl be the plane of choice, especially considering they are Canda's jet fighter.  Heck, lets just invest some money and buy some JSF's, that'll be a site to see.

 

[aesop081]

Sounds cool to me but be realistic.  We have a limited number of 18's and they are both costly to maintain and replace in case of loss.  A trainer type aircraft is more realistic.  As i said previously, the BAE Hawk is a good candidate. We already use it as a trainer so there is expertise already in place to support it.  The snowbirds operate out of MJ anyways so support infrastructure is already in place for this type. JSF is gonna cost way too much money for te CF to be able to field those purely for air demonstration.  My fantasy pick would be the SU-27 but thats not gonna happen either !

 

[Northern Touch]

Oh I dont doubt that the JSF is unrealistic, but no one said we couldn't dream. ^-^