RCAF Mess Ottawa

[Edward Campbell]

Why do we need messes period ? The only place I have seem them really needed is on ships.

That's the key question. Messes grew up in the late 18th and throughout the 19th century - mostly on there "frontiers" of India and Canada. British officers serving in England didn't have such things because they were quite unnecessary. But there were messes on ships and in remote, overseas, bases - think Fort Henry and the Halifax Citadel.

Are mess of our current type necessary, today?

I will argue that in a smallish, specialized station, like Leitrim, or even in a large but somewhat remote base like Cold Lake there is a need for social/recreational facilities and at least an all ranks club is appropriate. But what about Esquimalt, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Kingston and Halifax? Are messes a good use of our resources?

Ships: Yes and there is likely a ned for separate "leaders" messes. CFS Alert needs a good mess system. Wainwright? Shilo?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

That's the key question. Messes grew up in the late 18th and throughout the 19th century - mostly on there "frontiers" of India and Canada. British officers serving in England didn't have such things because they were quite unnecessary. But there were messes on ships and in remote, overseas, bases - think Fort Henry and the Halifax Citadel.

Are mess of our current type necessary, today?

I will argue that in a smallish, specialized station, like Leitrim, or even in a large but somewhat remote base like Cold Lake there is a need for social/recreational facilities and at least an all ranks club is appropriate. But what about Esquimalt, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Kingston and Halifax? Are messes a good use of our resources?

Ships: Yes and there is likely a ned for separate "leaders" messes. CFS Alert needs a good mess system. Wainwright? Shilo?

I agree with everything except the bolded part of this quote.

Having served the majority of my career inside "urban" locals, I would argue they are needed there immensely. Locals see dollar signs when bloggins walks through the door. Some of the locals are welcoming, if you have coin. Some locals are openly hostile and want to toss out the brutes. In some cases, geography also plays a part in the need to have a place to hang out, seeing as it's an 80-100 dollar cab ride for the troops to get from the outskirts where the base is located to an establishment.

Ultimately, if you sleep in your barrack room, your mess is your living and dining room... like on a ship.

Do they get the traffic they used to? I doubt it. But a lot of that has to do with the failure to communicate that cultural aspect of service to newer generations coming in.

CFSCE does a good job of orienting new troops into this culture and I have been grateful to see a shift locally at least.

 

[Furniture]

There is likely an argument for the messes to evolve into more a USN Liberty Center style social gathering place, rather than what we currently have.

A common space for all ranks with comfortable seating, large screens for movies/sports, and smaller spaces for individual gaming/internet surfing. Throw in some rank divided "snake pits", with a common bar, and you've got something that would likely appeal to live-in members, as well as provide a location for social events.

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . would likely appeal to live-in members . . . .

How many still live-in? An honest question, since the impression one gets is, that other than during training, the expectation is for members to move out on the economy as soon as possible. The impression is strengthened by a general increase in average age, married/family status and a higher rate of home ownership than back in the day when I last lived-in (which, though briefly, was over three decades ago).

 

[Furniture]

How many still live-in? An honest question, since the impression one gets is, that other than during training, the expectation is for members to move out on the economy as soon as possible. The impression is strengthened by a general increase in average age, married/family status and a higher rate of home ownership than back in the day when I last lived-in (which, though briefly, was over three decades ago).

I used live-in as a catch all to include people on training, on IR, and single members living-in.

The CAF has gone out of it's way to make living-in on a full-time basis miserable/impossible, so there aren't many doing it. I suspect that some of the leadership is now starting to regret that short-sightedness now that cost/shortages of housing are becoming a major problem around many bases.

 

[MacNav63]

Sorry to hear the RCAF Mess has closed. I have many happy memories of Friday lunches there with my Dad in the 80s. He was army but the RCAF Mess was closer to the JAG offices in the old Narono Building. It was well known for serving the best fish and chips in Ottawa on Fridays. In good weather they'd be lined up out the door.

 

[dapaterson]

The Army could have been gracious and welcomed the other two messes. They could have consulted and let them fund members lunches.

But instead they've gone full Army: for Friday lunches, they are now checking ID and names against their members list.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Sorry to hear the RCAF Mess has closed. I have many happy memories of Friday lunches there with my Dad in the 80s. He was army but the RCAF Mess was closer to the JAG offices in the old Narono Building. It was well known for serving the best fish and chips in Ottawa on Fridays. In good weather they'd be lined up out the door.

Yes, their Friday fish and chips was a lunchtime standard a few times a month for many Surg Gen officers when I was there in the 80s. The only other times we went to a mess for lunch was to the Army Officers Mess for the curry.

 

[Furniture]

The Army could have been gracious and welcomed the other two messes. They could have consulted and let them fund members lunches.

But instead they've gone full Army: for Friday lunches, they are now checking ID and names against their members list.

This is the most CAF thing I have read in a long time...

 

[MacNav63]

Yes, their Friday fish and chips was a lunchtime standard a few times a month for many Surg Gen officers when I was there in the 80s. The only other times we went to a mess for lunch was to the Army Officers Mess for the curry.

Remember the curries at the Army Mess as well. Also a big draw.

 

[Navy_Pete]

How many still live-in? An honest question, since the impression one gets is, that other than during training, the expectation is for members to move out on the economy as soon as possible. The impression is strengthened by a general increase in average age, married/family status and a higher rate of home ownership than back in the day when I last lived-in (which, though briefly, was over three decades ago).

Aside from courses, it's also required to stay in on base facilities if you go on TD unless you justify a reason otherwise.

But with some of the difficulties finding places to live (especially for a few months between career courses) not uncommon for people to be living in.

In Halifax (last time I was there on TD) everyone ate in a common mess in the C&PO/Wardroom building, with the separate messes still running their social functions. It was great; happened to run into some people that we sailed with so were able to catch up over breakfast, without worrying about the fact that we were all different ranks, and then caught up with people at a local pub off base.

I think it makes sense to have residences, as long as they are all the same standard. Was really frustrating for years to see the new Weirdroom/C&POs building in Halifax and the big delay until the JRs was redone, but I guess it balances out with the old officer's long term residence, or the other buildings that occasionally have sections 'uncondemned' for jnr officers to stay in.

 

[AKa]

I for one have enjoyed the messes. Before the pandemic, I happily visited all three officers' messes. Events at the RCAF Mess were actually great when you brought some rowdy friends. The RCAF mess dinners were an opportunity to meet a bunch of fellow officers that I would normally never encounter.

I'm not excessively attached to the notion of a pure Air Force mess nor do I have a problem with an all ranks solution, but I do value the fellowship of my sisters and brothers in arms in a venue dedicated to us.

 

[lenaitch]

From a civi perspective, when I was law enforcement in small towns, the favoured place to socialize was the Legion. It was an environment generally free from the local s***rats, had the typical distractions of pool, shuffle board, etc. and, if somebody did get on your case, they could be tossed since it was a licenced as a club. It was also a favoured place for events, such as transfer parties. In one town we also enjoyed the mess at a local CFS. I can imagine military members would also appreciate a somewhat 'safe' environment to kick back as well a place to hold events where liquor is available. There may be a local watering hole that caters to its local military members and appreciates the business, but there is no guarantee. Travel to and from the edge-of-town aspect of many bases is something I had not considered.

 

[McG]

It doesn't alter my main point: when one or two officers' messes must close it is the duty of the other officers' mess to welcome them ... we do not displace the rank and file or even the sergeants for the convenience and comfort of officers.

The priority of some tribes is to assert their distinctiveness over the others. The old officer service messes will be protected to reinforce a message that we are not one and that all are beholden to their parent “service.”

 

[dapaterson]

CO of the base in Ottawa needs to issue some orders, at the risk of pissing off some wankers.

 

[Navy_Pete]

The priority of some tribes is to assert their distinctiveness over the others. The old officer service messes will be protected to reinforce a message that we are not one and that all are beholden to their parent “service.”

...but be ready to go in a purple job outside your element, because one service.

The tribalism is stupid, and we learn a lot from each other on the equipment side (and provide each other with gear). It's weird that we all start in the same BMOQ, and do a common staff college (ie learn how to army good) but have relics like the service messes for officers in the NCR which is easily the most tri-service area in the country.

Maybe if we talked to each other more, we could avoid things like an army support radio fitted to a ship that doesn't use the same frequencies as modern army radios (which has now been retired, but really shouldn't find that out in something like the Haiti response).

If the CAF wasn't actively shooting itself in the foot though I think we might just have only a manageable workload though, so can't have that. A simple gas turbine engine will use something like 60%-70% of it's energy to be self sustaining, so it's nice to be a leader in internal inefficiencies.

 

[Kilted]

Why do we need messes period ? The only place I have seem them really needed is on ships.

They are good for retention in the reserves. I've been in a few reg force messes. They don't have the same culture to them.

 

[dapaterson]

Most Res F messes retain the wrong people. Those who will protect the mess, as opposed to those who will advance the institution.

 

[dimsum]

The tribalism is stupid, and we learn a lot from each other on the equipment side (and provide each other with gear). It's weird that we all start in the same BMOQ, and do a common staff college (ie learn how to army good) but have relics like the service messes for officers in the NCR which is easily the most tri-service area in the country.

Maybe if we talked to each other more, we could avoid things like an army support radio fitted to a ship that doesn't use the same frequencies as modern army radios (which has now been retired, but really shouldn't find that out in something like the Haiti response).

 

[ueo]

Why do we need messes period ? The only place I have seem them really needed is on ships.

Yes, yes, and yes. Wrote an article on this some years back that was published in the CFB London base paper asking this very question along with the requirement that all CF members must belong to and pay dues (altho with a caveat) to an applicable mess. Those in Base posns paid a large sum and those on RSS chose the cost savings accrued by belonging to a res mess. Ignited a fire storm for about 2 days then....