Questions about income and parents view of the CF

[FestiveT]

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post this, however, here it goes.

I am currently in the process of getting the forms filled out etc to join the CF. I have thought about this a lot over the last few months, and it's what I really want to do. However I have some questions that I would like to clear up, but not just for myself, for my father, who seems like he no longer supports my decision in joining the CF.

My first question is about the income of people in the CF, particularly people in the Infantry. I have already seen the pay rate tables from the CF website, but it isn't very specific to occupation etc. And not all of the information on that website is completely accurate. This is not a deciding factor whether I will join the CF or not, because I am joining either way, but it would be nice to know.

Second of all, my father has a pretty bad impression of the Canadian Army. Perhaps it's because he doesn't know anybody in the military, however, he thinks Army jobs, especially Infantry, is full of "losers", and that there is no career in that field. He also believes that the majority of soldiers are living on the poverty line. Is this true? I know some of the on-base housing is pretty much crap, however he believes that you can't afford much by joining the Army.

If anyone has some insight in this, I would be more than appreciative in hearing it.

Thanks!

-Sean

 

[Britney Spears]

90% of people are stupid, and the really stupid ones advertise their stupidity by opening their mouth and making ridiculous, unfounded statements about topics on which they have neither personal experience, nor done any systematic research. The latter is particularly inexcusable, as modern technology makes research easy, even for stupid people. People like this are the best argument against democracy.

Not referring to anyone in particular, just some "insight". 

 

[TCBF]

The pay rate tables are the truth.  Most people in the military on the poverty line would be on the poverty line on civy street as well.  It's called living beyond your means.

Your father is entitled to his opinions, but it is your life.

Your call.

Tom

 

[Michael OLeary]

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post this, however, here it goes.

I am currently in the process of getting the forms filled out etc to join the CF. I have thought about this a lot over the last few months, and it's what I really want to do. However I have some questions that I would like to clear up, but not just for myself, for my father, who seems like he no longer supports my decision in joining the CF.

Then perhaps he should be the one doing some research.

My first question is about the income of people in the CF, particularly people in the Infantry. I have already seen the pay rate tables from the CF website, but it isn't very specific to occupation etc. And not all of the information on that website is completely accurate. This is not a deciding factor whether I will join the CF or not, because I am joining either way, but it would be nice to know.

The pay rate table apply to all trades.

Second of all, my father has a pretty bad impression of the Canadian Army. Perhaps it's because he doesn't know anybody in the military, however, he thinks Army jobs, especially Infantry, is full of "losers", and that there is no career in that field. He also believes that the majority of soldiers are living on the poverty line. Is this true? I know some of the on-base housing is pretty much crap, however he believes that you can't afford much by joining the Army.

For someone who doesn't know anyone in the Army, he seems to think he knows a lot about life in the Army and soldiers. You might be surprised by how wrong many of his "beliefs" are.

If anyone has some insight in this, I would be more than appreciative in hearing it.

At some point, we all have to choose our own path. Start searching the forums on topics of pay, living conditions, career development and enything else that you think will help him find the truth.

Also, search the FAQ in the Recruiting Forum, it's a good start pont for discussion about joining and preparing for training.

 

[paracowboy]

your father is wrong. The previous posters are right. I'm the most right. You'll get used to that.

 

[TCBF]

"I'm the most right."

- Well, modesty never was much of a force multiplier, I guess.

;D

Tom

 

[Jaxson]

Does money honestly make a difference, if you are doing something you truly want to do?.

 

[FestiveT]

Thanks a lot for the replies guys.

Like I said, I'm joining, it's not about the pay.

I'll search through forums for relative material to show the old man. I realize it is my decision, but I got a certain respect for my father ;P

Thanks again.

Cheers.

 

[paracowboy]

I realize it is my decision, but I got a certain respect for my father

good. He is your father.

When I enlisted, I was attempting to support a wife and 2 dogs on $800 a month (quite the drop from $8,000 a month). Which is probably where he's getting his ideas on our pay. Or else, he just doesn't want to see his baby-boy go off to a dangerous job. Or he just doesn't want to admit his baby-boy is grown. Or he just doesn't have a sense of patriotism. There are many other factors at play here, and I'd suggest, once you have the definite answers on money, benefits, pension, etc, that you sit him down and get them all out in the open.

See how right I am? Again, with the being right! I gotta slow down...

 

[FestiveT]

Natural rightness... nice.

 

[Zombie]

FestiveT:

My brother seems to have the same general thoughts about the CF as your dad, and it has absolutely no bearing on my decision to join. I know that he has not done the research I have and that his views come from some preconceived notions of what the military is, with nothing to back them up whatsoever. I also have a tremendous amount of respect for my brother (even in his ignorance), which is why I will wait until I am in the military to show him that the CF is something he can be proud of, and a lot more than what he has seen and read about in the media, and heard about from other people. I'd much rather show him what it's about than try to explain it to him.

 

[GO!!!]

Festive,

The pay tables are right, but somewhat misleading.

You will be a Private Recuit for your first eight months or so in the Army, if you are going to be an infantryman. The rate of pay looks low, but your expenses are ZERO, you pocket every penny after tax. The military provides you with room and board, and all of your uniforms, equipment etc. are provided.

You move to private 1 on the pay scale as soon as you complete Infantry Battle School, and recieve Levels 2 and 3 on the anniversary of your joining the CF the next two years.

Your rent is subsidised (about 100$/month) if you live in the barracks on base for the first year in a unit, once you are trained. After that, it is your own room or a shared one for about 225$ a month, more if you choose to eat at the mess.

If you are single, it's not bad cash, and climbs steadily after that, with a Corporal making about 52-57K a year after 4 years, depending on which base you are posted to. I'm not sure what your fathers' definition of the poverty line is, but a single guy with a high school education making 55, 000 a year aint it. I find that when most CF members complain about pay, they are being stupid with their money, and living outside of their means. The same thing happens on civvie street though, with the guy who makes $7.32/hour with an 800$ car payment.

Besides, it's only three years. If you don't like it, your contract is up and you can leave, no hard feelings. You get your pension contributions back (about $9,000 before tax) and you can carry on with your life.

Your dad is probably from my dad's generation (born in the 50s), when soldiers were often borderline illiterate, or unemployable anywhere else. You have to be a pretty smart, fit cookie to be a light (or mechanised) infanteer, and you are paid accordingly. I make more right now than my university educated wife, and most of the people I graduated from high school with. The work is'nt always easy, but that is what makes it fun sometimes, that and the knowledge that I do a job few people can.

So if you are going to join, do it young, right out of high school. If you don't like it, you will be back on the street with an honorable discharge, some money, job experience that looks great on a resume, and if you are smart, a newer car paid for when you leave.

My 2 cents.

 

[acclenticularis]

Perhaps it's because he doesn't know anybody in the military, however, he thinks Army jobs, especially Infantry, is full of "losers", and that there is no career in that field

Interesting view ... only losers would volunteer to defend that which we hold dear in this country.  Personally, I find that attitude very offensive.

 

[BSmith12]

My dad just laughed at me when I told him I wanted to enlist. What a dead-beat, he doesn't know how wrong he is.  8)

 

[alexpb]

Luckily my family has supported me thus far with joining the CF.

I'm sorry that your father doesn't support you on it though. If it was me it would just fuel my fire to keep going.

Good luck.

 

[BSmith12]

If it was me it would just fuel my fire to keep going.

And it has. There's always something to look forward to. What puzzles me is the fact that a parent could possibly act this way. In my mind, a father or mother would look at their child with admiration and pride. Why would they joke about it? My mom was shaken when I told her I wanted to enlist when I was 16. She wouldn't let me, so I had to wait until I turned 18. She wanted me to be an English teacher, blah! My life, my choice. And that goes for any other person out there. We are to decide our own path, our own fate. Just have the right attitude and be sure that it's something that you truly want to do with your life. I spent the last 2 years of my life reading military history and watching government debates on the television. I thought if I couldn't be in the Army, I want to learn about what they're doing today and what they've been through so far. I've probably watched every video on the CF Army website, too.  :blotto:

 

[Part-Timer]

I've probably watched every video on the CF Army website, too.   :blotto:

Did ya play the chopper game, too?

 

[dearryan]

I really don't think the pay is that bad at all. I have university education, and many of my friends do as well. And most of them make below what a first year corporal makes. Oh ya and again most of them are carrying some serious student loan dept. Another thing, most of them sit behind a freak-in desk and WISH they could do something rewarding. As far as losers in the infantry....thems fighten words.

 

[Spazz]

Both my parents are very supportive of my decision. It basically stands if your 18 it really doesn't matter what your parents think. If you join up, work hard, and make the best of it, your parents will see how dedicated you are and will probably change there view of your career choice in the armed forces. If you are under 18 and joining up for the reserves, you just got to show them how responsible you are by doing things like homework, cleaning, just helping out and doing your part around the house or workign hard at a part-time job. If you show your parents how responsible you are then they will probably see that you are responsible enough to make your own decision of joining up. I'm no pro but I think doing that is what really helped to get my moms signature on my application. Best of luck.

 

[FestiveT]

Your dad is probably from my dad's generation (born in the 50s), when soldiers were often borderline illiterate, or unemployable anywhere else. You have to be a pretty smart, fit cookie to be a light (or mechanised) infanteer, and you are paid accordingly. I make more right now than my university educated wife, and most of the people I graduated from high school with. The work is'nt always easy, but that is what makes it fun sometimes, that and the knowledge that I do a job few people can.

So if you are going to join, do it young, right out of high school. If you don't like it, you will be back on the street with an honorable discharge, some money, job experience that looks great on a resume, and if you are smart, a newer car paid for when you leave.

My 2 cents.

Yeah, my dad was born in 56. So perhaps that's part of it.

I'm 20 years old now, with a college certificate under my belt, I think part of it is also that my dad wants me to do something in the field I studied in, computer systems technology. However, that's not what I want to do now.

I appreciate all of the info on pay rates etc. That was one question I didn't ask at the recruiters, but I had a feeling there was a different lower pay for Recruits.

Cheers.