Question on legal knife length in Canada

[Stoker]

The sad part about it is that custom agents and police has their own set of rules to play by and you are taking a chance that their interpretation of the rules that your knife or whatever you are bringing in may be illegal in their eyes and seized. Then you are the one that has to prove that it isn't and most of the time there is significant time and cost involved.

 

[chrisf]

Or buy from inside the country... there's retailers in Canada selling spring assisted knives... let them assume the risk of dealing with customs.

 

[ballz]

As Chief Stoker mentioned, I'd be more worried about the risk of getting charged with possession of a prohibited weapon than I am about a knife getting stopped by customs. If it gets stopped by customs I lose the purchase price of the knife, if I get charged I lose the price of a good lawyer, which is about the same price of a good knife per hour :-\

Let's be serious, the Crown would probably charge you if you had anything remotely close, they've got an unlimited budget. And Sig Op you know the RNC would love to have "RNC seize prohibited weapon, man charged for possession" in the Telegram here in St. John's.

 

[aesop081]

And Sig Op you know the RNC would love to have "RNC seize prohibited weapon, man soldier charged for possession" in the Telegram here in St. John's.

There, all fixed 

 

[chrisf]

Ballz, check your PMs.

That, and *believe it or not* the RNC is fairly sensible about such things... the provinces chief firearms officer is usually pretty sensible as well.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Seems silly a 3 inch knife can be prohibited but a 7 inch knife wouldn't.  I guess switch blades and butterfly knives etc.. are scary and gang related dating back to the 50's or something.

I'm going to email the RCMP and ask for a prohibited license to possess auto-folders- they might get a good chuckle out of it.

 

[Stoker]

Ballz, check your PMs.

That, and *believe it or not* the RNC is fairly sensible about such things... the provinces chief firearms officer is usually pretty sensible as well.

Not by the RNC members that I know. These are the same police that want the public to have nothing on them such as knives and what not. That being said the chances that you are going to whip out said knife in front of a cop are pretty remote. Not many people carry a knife anymore, except for work. Yes there are cops with common sense but again a lot of the cops I know will think nothing of seizing a knife even if they don't know what the laws are, they will err on the side of caution and seize it. Then its up to you to prove your case to have it back and the cops know 99% will not do anything.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Seems silly a 3 inch knife can be prohibited but a 7 inch knife wouldn't.  I guess switch blades and butterfly knives etc.. are scary and gang related dating back to the 50's or something.

I'm going to email the RCMP and ask for a prohibited license to possess auto-folders- they might get a good chuckle out of it.

I know you're a convert already, but the same discussion can be made for handguns.

It's all about pretense and looks. It has nothing to do with the physical aspects of an inanimate object. Just the paranoid state of mind of the lawmaker.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Seems silly a 3 inch knife can be prohibited but a 7 inch knife wouldn't.  I guess switch blades and butterfly knives etc.. are scary and gang related dating back to the 50's or something.

I'm going to email the RCMP and ask for a prohibited license to possess auto-folders- they might get a good chuckle out of it.

A lot has to do with "intent," in other words what were you planning on using the knife for. For example, its mid-Nov and you're wearing an orange jumpsuit and you got a 7 inch knife clipped to your belt, you're probably OK (helps if you got a dead Bambi in the back); same knife and you're in a bar at midnight, then you better have a pretty good explanation why you have the knife with you. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

A lot has to do with "intent," in other words what were you planning on using the knife for. For example, its mid-Nov and you're wearing an orange jumpsuit and you got a 7 inch knife clipped to your belt, you're probably OK (helps if you got a dead Bambi in the back); same knife and you're in a bar at midnight, then you better have a pretty good explanation why you have the knife with you.

Once again, people are being judged, simply for the sake of an inanimate object.

You are innocent until proven guilty. As much as the local Criminal Justice System says otherwise, that is the basic premise of our foundation of law.

I behooves the law to prove you have criminal intent.

The latest catch all that they're using, in court, is Pubilic Safety or Dangerous to the Public Peace.

They still have to prove intent. They will normally try to plea bargain you away from that charge.

Who really cares if I carry a 7" blade as protection against wild dogs in my neighbourhood. That's my excuse.

They can't prove otherwise. No more than me carrying animal spray in the city. It's allowed to carry it for that purpose.

If I happen to use either to protect my life during an assault, it was only because I had it and it was expedient and I feared for my life.

Prove otherwise.

 

[ballz]

"Possession" of a prohibited weapon has nothing to do with intent though...

It doesn't matter whether you are using a 3" switchblade for hunting or for work, or whether you have it in your pocket at a bar, it's prohibited and therefore you get charged and most likely convicted, with a max sentence of 5 years in prison, no matter what your intentions were.

The reason these specific knives are prohibited is, as recceguy and Grimaldus have said, the hollywood-driven "scare" factor. Some people, scared of their own shadow and whatnot, think it's more painful or more lethal or somehow worse to get stabbed with a 3" switchblade than a 3" fixed blade.

EDIT: Terrible grammar...

 

[lawandorder]

Your best bet to carrying a knife is to carry one for work only, or in a circumstance you actually need one.  IE Hunting, camping, adventure training.....otherwise I'd suggest leaving it at home.  It automatically ups the ante in many situations, not always in your favour.

The restriction on knives is well warranted.  No need for most people to carry a knife daily.  A person with a knife can turn a fist fight in to a murder/death fairly quickly.  By the person who is carrying it, or by someone who takes it from that person in the course of the fight. 

In 2006, 18% of violent crimes had a weapon used in the commision of the offence.  The highest % was with knives, 6.2% compared to guns at 2.4%.  34.5% of homicides used a knife compared to 31.4 - Robbery was 18.9% knife compared to 13.9 gun.  Sexual assault 1.1% compared to .3%.  Some of those figures seem small, but theh are important. People aren't being judged because of the possesion of an inanimate object, they are being judged on the reality that knives are used more often in the commision of serious violent offences then any other weapon.  The more restrictions you have on knives, the less options available.  If someone buys a knife and illegaly transports it across the border, uses it in the commision of an offence, gets caught, it becomes additional charges added against the original charge.  If the crowns case on the robbery is weak, at least the person will be charged with the possesion of a prohibited weapon etc.

If you want to carry a 7 inch blade around for "vicious" animals, you better have justification to a judge that there are "vicious" animals around.  I am not saying that its not a legit reason, but judges aren't dumb either, and semantics don't really impress them.  There is probably case law on it.

I wouldn't carry a knife If I didn't need one and generally don't outside of work.  21 Foot rule for police is a big thing and a knife is a good way to get a gun drawn on you.

*edited for spelling*

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Your best bet to carrying a knife is to carry one for work only, or in a circumstance you actually need one.  IE Hunting, camping, adventure training.....otherwise I'd suggest leaving it at home.  It automatically ups the ante in many situations, not always in your favour.

The restriction on knives is well warranted.  No need for most people to carry a knife daily.  A person with a knife can turn a fist fight in to a murder/death fairly quickly.  By the person who is carrying it, or by someone who takes it from that person in the course of the fight. 

In 2006, 18% of violent crimes had a weapon used in the commision of the offence.  The highest % was with knives, 6.2% compared to guns at 2.4%.  34.5% of homicides used a knife compared to 31.4 - Robbery was 18.9% knife compared to 13.9 gun.  Sexual assault 1.1% compared to .3%.  Some of those figures seem small, but theh are important. People aren't being judged because of the possesion of an inanimate object, they are being judged on the reality that knives are used more often in the commision of serious violent offences then any other weapon.  The more restrictions you have on knives, the less options available.  If someone buys a knife and illegaly transports it across the border, uses it in the commision of an offence, gets caught, it becomes additional charges added against the original charge.  If the crowns case on the robbery is weak, at least the person will be charged with the possesion of a prohibited weapon etc.

If you want to carry a 7 inch blade around for "vicious" animals, you better have justification to a judge that there are "vicious" animals around.  I am not saying that its not a legit reason, but judges aren't dumb either, and semantics don't really impress them.  There is probably case law on it.

I wouldn't carry a knife If I didn't need one and generally don't outside of work.  21 Foot rule for police is a big thing and a knife is a good way to get a gun drawn on you.

*edited for spelling*

I'm sorry. I don't agree.

A knife is a tool. An inanimate tool.

If there is no law against carrying a particular model, people should not be cajoled into being afraid to carry one.

People have to start asserting their rights. They have the right, during lawful activity, to protection against unwarranted search and seizure as well as the right to self defence, to name a few.

And others, including LEOs, should not be councelling them to abrogate those same rights. They should be defending them in pursuit of those rights.

 

[Journeyman]

I wouldn't carry a knife If I didn't need one and generally don't outside of work.

What MP work in Ottawa do you believe requires a knife while on duty?

 

[lawandorder]

A lot of police will carry a utility knife in order to cut seat belts in case of a serious motor vehicle accident.  Though currently I have one in the patrol bag in the vehicle.

Also while doing anything in any training area while wearing combats, I generally carry a small CRKT clip knife.

 

[lawandorder]

I'm sorry. I don't agree.

A knife is a tool. An inanimate tool.

If there is no law against carrying a particular model, people should not be cajoled into being afraid to carry one.

People have to start asserting their rights. They have the right, during lawful activity, to protection against unwarranted search and seizure as well as the right to self defence, to name a few.

And others, including LEOs, should not be councelling them to abrogate those same rights. They should be defending them in pursuit of those rights.

Who said anything about unwarranted search and seizure?  I didn't. I can only speak for myself, but unlawful search and seizure is a bad practice and any criminal charges laid from it is easily thrown out.  I never once mentioned that a person should be allowing Police to unlawfully search them. Agree or don't agree, facts are facts. I never once mentioned people should give up their right to self defense either.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

A lot of police will carry a utility knife in order to cut seat belts in case of a serious motor vehicle accident.  Though currently I have one in the patrol bag in the vehicle.

Also while doing anything in any training area while wearing combats, I generally carry a small CRKT clip knife.

So you don't see the need for a tool to cut seat belts when you're off duty?

 

[Journeyman]

A lot of police will carry a utility knife in order to cut seat belts in case of a serious motor vehicle accident.  Though currently I have one in the patrol bag in the vehicle.

Ah, so I'm OK carring a utility knife, since I'm a First Aid trained, potential first-responder.

It's rhetorical. I've carried a utility knife for several decades without actually committing a crime with it, or being shot by the police. I can't imagine changing now, based on an anonymous internet source.

 

[Container]

the 21 foot reactionary gap doesnt really apply to a knife in a sheath on a belt. I cant imagine being that antsy about that- the world is filled with weapons of opportunity. I routinely deal with hunters with loaded guns who have commited one provincial offence or another. I dont draw down on every body. Intent is not articuable in those situations. Just like it wouldnt be when its in a sheath on a belt or a clip. "Hey partner why dont you toss that in the grass over there while we talk" gets you farther.
if required at all. Or if theyve done something wrong a pat down search prior to talking and holding the knife while you do your investigation.

A dick going to use a knife is a dick going to use a knife no matter what. To each his own I guess.

 

[lawandorder]

No I don't actually feel the need to carry a knife to cut seat belts while I am off duty. I would be doing other things if I was the first person on the scene of an accident.

I never said no one should carry a knife on the streets.  I stated in my post, I wouldn't.  Me, Myself, and I.
Sorry, I should have posted the link for the stats I provided. 

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2008002/article/10518-eng.htm

Everyone seems to be under the impression that I would draw down on anyone carrying a knife. I don't.  Please, the world is not black and white. Maybe I didn't articulate myself in my post, or maybe people are coming to conclusions too early.  If its the former I do apologize.  I also didn't really clarify when I wrote about carrying a knife.  Maybe I assumed someone was carrying it in their hand.  I wasn't talking about a sheathed knife on a belt or something, especially when talking about the 21 foot rule. So again I suppose I should have clarified that.

Journeyman: You're also in a sub culture that serves the country, and probably has some professional courtesy towards the police and other emergency servicest.  I never said just because someone carries a knife they are criminal, or would get in trouble by the police.  Step 1 is doing something to even be noticed by the police, before a knife even comes in to the equation.

Container: "A dick going to use a knife is a dick going to use a knife no matter what. To each his own I guess" absolutely, and as soon as a person is identified as having a knife your mental checklist goes, including the 1 + 1 rule.  If you can take possesion of it during your conversation then good, or if he can leave in the grass or on top of the car, good. I didn't say I draw down on anyone with a knife, I said the 21 foot rule is an important one and becomes a factor when responding to any call.

Carry a knife, most people won't come across any issues while doing so. I was saying when you do so, you bring a weapon in to a situation that maybe it shouldn't be.


Edit

Actually I did sugges tif you don't need a knife to leave it at home.  I stand by that. If you carry a 7 inch knife around daily thats your choice, but unless you live in the woods or need it regularly I wouldn't.