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Queen's Diamond Jubilee Super Thread

medicineman said:
I wonder if he's the "officer" that refused to stand or acknowledge the Loyal Toasts at the mess dinners at RMC...I put the quotes around officer because someone that would blatantly disregard their commissioning oath like that should actually be required to relinquish said commission.  But that's just the ex-WO in me talking I guess.

MM
No I'm not that guy and I didn't make any waves, really, while I was serving.
  They issued me a commissioning scroll.  I didn't ask for it.  I didn't pay attention to the very kind salutation from the Queen but I did pay attention to what the two Canadians, who signatures appear (Gov Gen and Min of Def) had to say in the body of the  document.  I took those words seriously.  Are you saying that I didn't?  Is that what you are saying? Are you really, really  saying that because I tried to live up to the expectations of those two offices and not the "Crown" that I should have retired or something?  Do you really wish to say that to me?  Are you saying that I respected orders given to me by Canadian military superiors all the way to the Prime Minister, I suppose and to the Gov Gen (who is C in C of the CF) that I am somehow a worthless piece of dirt in your eyes.  You shouldn't be so cavalier in your comments.  I love my country and what it stands for.  I was proud to represent my country and its armed forces around the world.  I did the best job I could and it wasn't easy.  How dare you question my service.  you know nothing about me.  How dare you belittle the things I hold dear.  I love and cherish my country and my family and the Cdn Forces. 
 
dowadiddy said:
The words of the oath are crystal clear (.....true allegiance to Queen Elizabeth, the Second, Queen of Canada.....) Maybe you are suggesting that the oath means duty, honour, integrity, courage. loyalty all to the CF and to the ideals of Canada.  Well, that is not what the WORDS, the written words, say.  I paraphrase the oath to mean unswerving loyalty to a named and well known famous person who lives in the UK and who has some vague connection to Canada.

Do I notice a trend in response to my post?  Yes, sadly I have.  I cannot understand why Canadians, closely associated with the CF (I assume you all are) do not put  loyalty and allegiance to your beautiful country and its great armed forces above everything else.  But I guess we need a bauble recognizing someones anniversary to  give us pride. 

Have I confused the terms  "Queen" and "Crown"?  I don't know and I don't care.  I'm not a constitutional expert.  All I know is that this overwhelming deference to and fawning over an individual or symbol (King, Queen or Crown or constitutional monarchy) just makes me want to scream.  All I know is I love my country and question why the ideals of Canada and what it represents (and medals) can't be given  precedence. 

Did I cringe and bite my tongue when I swore the oath many years ago?  Yes,  I admit it.  I have done things I am not proud of.  All I wanted to be then was a member of the best armed forces in the world - The Cdn Forces.  I held my tongue during that time and tried to do the best job I could to represent my country.  I didn't bring up the subject because the job was more important; and well, the NDA in effect says that it is a crime to make disloyal statements about the Crown or Queen.  You don't know who you can trust. 

No, the Queen is not a dictator.....not in that sense.  Grow up.

Are you suggesting that I should be ashamed of my paycheque/pension or collected them under false pretenses?  Well, well, well. I guess we really do live in a constitutional monarchy and not a democracy after all.  In a democracy you have freedom of religion, political viewpoints, race, gender.  In a democracy, employers cannot discriminate based upon those things.  My friend, are you saying that because I believe in the ideals of Canada that I do not deserve to be compensated for serving my country instead of the Crown?  I'm loyal to my country and place it above any other vague symbol.  By your admission, it appears that you do not share that same loyalty to your country.  I feel sorry for you.  Sir Walter Scott was not a republican, as far as I know but he was Scottish which says a lot and I know how I would like to interpret: "Breaths there  a man with soul so dead who never to himself hath said, This is my own, my native land....."

 
Strike said:
Your whole last paragraph makes no sense after this sentence because, guess what, we DO live in a constitutional monarchy, not a pure democracy.  If you thought otherwise then you weren't paying attention during history class.
Yes.  You are correct. that is what I said.  What I meant to suggest was that even though we live in Constitutional Monarchy, I thought we lived in a country with democratic ideals.  I guess we don't.

This is interesting.  Some of you may vote NDP or live in Toronto.  You may practice a lifestyle with which I am not comfortable.  On a more serious note, some of you may be atheists.  Even more seriously, some of you may have showed a lack of integrity at work or at home; or you may have committed a minor crime.  And yet I do not begrudge you (within reason)  your pay or your commissioning scrolls.  Because I tried to do the best job I could while in uniform and have profesed my true allegiance and loyalty to Canada and not anything which includes words/symbols like  King, Queen, crown, constitutional monarchy, you are seriously suggesting that I be denied the same benefits and respect that you feel you deserve.
 
medicineman said:
I wonder if he's the "officer" that refused to stand or acknowledge the Loyal Toasts at the mess dinners at RMC...I put the quotes around officer because someone that would blatantly disregard their commissioning oath like that should actually be required to relinquish said commission.  But that's just the ex-WO in me talking I guess.

MM
This one?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2008/01/22/ot-queen-080122.html
 
That be him...he also changed his name to the Irish version that nobody could pronounce - and took great offence when you couldn't.  Went on about how I should, since there is a pile of Scots and Irish in me - I also pointed out that my mummy was English and the Scots and Irish were remote (> 2nd generation).  Incidentally, he's second generation Canadian IIRC though I could be wrong.  I get the impression his regiment hid him there for a reason.

MM
 
medicineman said:
That be him...he also changed his name to the Irish version that nobody could pronounce - and took great offence when you couldn't.  Went on about how I should, since there is a pile of Scots and Irish in me - I also pointed out that my mummy was English and the Scots and Irish were remote (> 2nd generation).  Incidentally, he's second generation Canadian IIRC though I could be wrong.  I get the impression his regiment hid him there for a reason.

MM

My mother is from Scotland (parents Scots/Irish) and grandparents from Dad's side - Scottish grandpa and English Grandmum - I'm Canadian and nothing else.

This particular person, if he feels that strongly, should renounce his Canadian citizenship and re-locate to....oh......hmmmm......Brazil. Or Peru.
 
medicineman said:
That be him...he also changed his name to the Irish version that nobody could pronounce - and took great offence when you couldn't.  Went on about how I should, since there is a pile of Scots and Irish in me - I also pointed out that my mummy was English and the Scots and Irish were remote (> 2nd generation).  Incidentally, he's second generation Canadian IIRC though I could be wrong.  I get the impression his regiment hid him there for a reason.

MM

Hey...now that I've seen the name, he was in the room next to me for a while back in Second Language training and used my computer to send something online.  I wonder what that is now...    :-\
 
Dimsum said:
Hey...now that I've seen the name, he was in the room next to me for a while back in Second Language training and used my computer to send something online.  I wonder what that is now...    :-\

I bet CSIS knows.    ;D  >:D
 
dowadiddy said:
Too bad neither she nor any members of her family had the decency to  attend any of the repatriation ceremonies.
Well one of them happened to be serving for there for a stint...
 
dowadiddy said:
I'm now retired after 40 years of service. I was presented with the Queen's 50Th anniversary medal in 2002.  I sent it back to the Min of Def.  It's embarrassing that as a great  and proud independent nation we feel we need to honour a foreign monarch (yes, I know she is our Head of State, big deal, so what) by advertising a 60 year dictatorship.
While I'm at it.  I thought the Sacrifice Medal was long overdue but am saddened and embarrassed that the Sovereign is is profiled on the front of the medal.  I would have much preferred the observe (Vimy memorial) to face to the front.  Then again,  I guess we swore our oath to  the Queen and not to do our duty to our country so all my fine brothers and sisters who were killed or wounded in Afghanistan sacrificed their lives and bodies to the Queen.  Too bad neither she nor any members of her family had the decency to  attend any of the repatriation ceremonies.

Do us a favor:

Stay retired. Thanks for your words of condolence. In fact, maybe you should move right out of Canada. Retire somewhere else....
 
milnews.ca said:
Good question.

Well I hope it is handled better than the 50th fiasco.  My unit saw two plugs get it by virtue of being the longest in rank.  As in 2 Cpls for life with very undistinguished careers.  But the formula they had made them qualify for it.  Sad.  Devalues it for the ones that really deserved it. 
 
The Royals have attended some repatriation ceremonies and have visited war zones to visit the troops.

http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchUK/ArmedForces/IraqandAfghanistan/IraqandAfghanistan.aspx
 
Crantor said:
Sad. Devalues it for the ones that really deserved it.
Personally, I think it's sad that anyone would hold a commemorative medal in such high regard.




 
Journeyman said:
Personally, I think it's sad that anyone would hold a commemorative medal in such high regard.

Well personnally I think all decorations, commemorative or other should be held in high regard.  With varying degrees of course.  Unfortunately the way they are handed out and who gets it and for what is what tarnishes them.  The British have it right.  And those that qualify should be proud to wear them.  The 125 medal became the RSM/CO cronie award and the QGJ became a joke with it's algebra calculation.

This next one stands to be much of the same because the guidelines seem as vague as the last two.  There are soem people that deserve that recognition but will likely not get it or if they do will be lumped in with everyone else and the value we attribute it to.  If they had said "every soldier that served three times in theatre" we would perceive it differently than if we said "every MP will have a certain amount to give out at their discretion to deserving canadians".   
 
Journeyman said:
Personally, I think it's sad that anyone would hold a commemorative medal in such high regard.

I agree. It's great for when some soldiers play dress up; makes them look like they've done something. A CD, 125, QGJ, makes people feel special around civilians who don't know the difference between that and a IFOR medal with a 3 on it, GSM with a bush of mapleleafs and a sacrifice medal.

Why would anyone want those medals are beyond me.

None the less I'm certain people are already jockeying to ensure they get it. Heck they may get a second row of ribbons outta this one.
 
dogger1936 said:
I Why would anyone want those medals are beyond me.

None the less I'm certain people are already jockeying to ensure they get it. Heck they may get a second more than a CD row of ribbons outta this one.

Fixed.

For what its worth, I agree.  These medals are nice BUT they often go to the wrong persons.
 
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