Quebec Tory Senator: Give murderers rope for their cells

[The Bread Guy]

Just to throw a slightly different perspective into the mix....

Is the death of one man by error of the state worth the lives of 10, 100 or 1000 innocent victims whom said reoccurring offender may kill once they are let out of jail?

I'm a supporter of capital punishment.  That said, one has to be careful when making "better one innocent one die than one guilty one get loose" argument.

How would one feel if they were the innocent mistake on death row?  Willing to sit there thinking, "hey, better me getting the needle to make sure nobody who's killed ever gets back into the street"?  And if one really thinks this, how would their family feel?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'm not sold on the thought that it costs more to put someone to death than keep them in jail the rest of their lives.
Perhaps were that actually the case we would look at shortening the lengthily process of putting someone to death.

Because really if Mr Anderson has served 2 sentences for violent rapes and he is let out and caught standing in a pool of blood, knife in hand and a dead woman at his feet and his defense is that he was jogging and seen the body so he stopped to help-every piece of evidence is pointing to the fact that it was him except theres no witnesses I'm okay with the 1% fudge factor.

Maybe it does cost more but to me that means we need to chance the process and stop letting these guys and girls appeal shit for 12 years. The system needs to change.

No one likes to place a monetary value on someones life.


Milnews agreed that's always a tricky slope. I'm obviously not saying this in a prison cell with a noose around my neck.

I'm not sure why people are so afraid to support inhumane treatment for lack of a better phrase of these hardcore life destroying criminals.  Maybe being a parent has changed my perspective but I'd really be happy to see a lot of these monsters hurt in very bad ways.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Doesn't mean I have to shut up about it.

I did not ask you to.  I just won't agree with you in your beliefs on this subject.

It stuns me

You're free to be as stunned as you like as well.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I'm not sure why people are so afraid to support inhumane treatment for lack of a better phrase of these hardcore life destroying criminals.  Maybe being a parent has changed my perspective but I'd really be happy to see a lot of these monsters hurt in very bad ways.

You're not the only parent I've heard sound off as strongly as you do (especially when talking about sex offenders with young victims), so you're in good company.

These guys were inhuman to someone else, so should all Canadians (the state) stoop to their level?  I'm OK with spartan, minimalist and out of the way, but I'm guessing most people won't be for dungeons, even for these very, very, very bad folks.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Dungeons with all the accessories will be just fine for the likes of Picton, Bernardo et al.  I'll even volunteer to be part of the staff...  >

 

[GK .Dundas]

Dungeons with all the accessories will be just fine for the likes of Picton, Bernardo et al.  I'll even volunteer to be part of the staff...  >

Just leave all the cute leather outfits at home .It's not considered professional if you've having too much fun! :nod:

 

[brihard]

Definitely the concept of what is 'humane' treatment has been stretched too far in some instances. While I will never, ever countenance torture or mistreatment, prison *should* be a hard place. It should be a place you never want to go. It should be as safe as we can make it, but other than that damned near intolerable. 'Spartan and minimalist' are both good terms for what I'm thinking on this.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Just leave all the cute leather outfits at home .It's not considered professional if you've having too much fun! :nod:

Find a job you love any you'll never work another day in your life.  ;D

 

[ballz]

These guys were inhuman to someone else, so should all Canadians (the state) stoop to their level?  I'm OK with spartan, minimalist and out of the way, but I'm guessing most people won't be for dungeons, even for these very, very, very bad folks.

I don't think wrapping a rope around their neck and letting them drop 15 feet is anywhere near their level, their victims would probably wish to trade places. I assume this is what you meant by spartan and minimalist? Quick, clean, and done?

 

[vonGarvin]

I've been hovering over this issue for quite some time.

For the initial post, the suggestion to give convicted murderers the rope to decide their own fate is an abhorrent way to treat those for whom we are responsible, irrespective of the crimes they have committed.  If we as a society want them dead, then we as a society must make that decision, consciously.  We cannot pretend to absolve ourselves of the responsibility by simply making the means available. 

For the suggestion that DNA be the deciding factor, it's only one piece of evidence, and it only proves that a person's DNA is somewhere.  It does not mean that the person was there.  DNA can travel over space and time to end up somewhere by almost any means. 

If we kill someone out of vengeance as a society, then we are killing someone for the wrong reason.  If we are killing them as punishment "pour encourager les autres", well, maybe.  But if we do decide to do so, then we ought not to pretend that we are acting in a humane manner with "lethal injections".  No.  We as a society must be uncomfortable with each and every killing we commit.  Hang the convicted person by the neck until dead.  And we as a society must be forced to watch, lest we think of something as simply "going away".  We cannot allow a convicted person to simply "pass away in the night" in some far off cell.  We must witness it, so that we never forget how painful of a decision it is to kill another human being.

 

[brihard]

I've been hovering over this issue for quite some time.

For the initial post, the suggestion to give convicted murderers the rope to decide their own fate is an abhorrent way to treat those for whom we are responsible, irrespective of the crimes they have committed.  If we as a society want them dead, then we as a society must make that decision, consciously.  We cannot pretend to absolve ourselves of the responsibility by simply making the means available. 

For the suggestion that DNA be the deciding factor, it's only one piece of evidence, and it only proves that a person's DNA is somewhere.  It does not mean that the person was there.  DNA can travel over space and time to end up somewhere by almost any means. 

If we kill someone out of vengeance as a society, then we are killing someone for the wrong reason.  If we are killing them as punishment "pour encourager les autres", well, maybe.  But if we do decide to do so, then we ought not to pretend that we are acting in a humane manner with "lethal injections".  No.  We as a society must be uncomfortable with each and every killing we commit.  Hang the convicted person by the neck until dead.  And we as a society must be forced to watch, lest we think of something as simply "going away".  We cannot allow a convicted person to simply "pass away in the night" in some far off cell.  We must witness it, so that we never forget how painful of a decision it is to kill another human being.

Very, very well put.

 

[Jarnhamar]

  We cannot allow a convicted person to simply "pass away in the night" in some far off cell.  We must witness it, so that we never forget how painful of a decision it is to kill another human being.

Awesome.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I don't think wrapping a rope around their neck and letting them drop 15 feet is anywhere near their level, their victims would probably wish to trade places. I assume this is what you meant by spartan and minimalist? Quick, clean, and done?

Should have been clearer - I was thinking in terms of confinement conditions, not execution.

 

[exabedtech]

I've been hovering over this issue for quite some time.

For the initial post, the suggestion to give convicted murderers the rope to decide their own fate is an abhorrent way to treat those for whom we are responsible, irrespective of the crimes they have committed.  If we as a society want them dead, then we as a society must make that decision, consciously.  We cannot pretend to absolve ourselves of the responsibility by simply making the means available. 

For the suggestion that DNA be the deciding factor, it's only one piece of evidence, and it only proves that a person's DNA is somewhere.  It does not mean that the person was there.  DNA can travel over space and time to end up somewhere by almost any means. 

If we kill someone out of vengeance as a society, then we are killing someone for the wrong reason.  If we are killing them as punishment "pour encourager les autres", well, maybe.  But if we do decide to do so, then we ought not to pretend that we are acting in a humane manner with "lethal injections".  No.  We as a society must be uncomfortable with each and every killing we commit.  Hang the convicted person by the neck until dead.  And we as a society must be forced to watch, lest we think of something as simply "going away".  We cannot allow a convicted person to simply "pass away in the night" in some far off cell.  We must witness it, so that we never forget how painful of a decision it is to kill another human being.

Couldn't agree more.  If execution is what society wants, we should be witness to it.  There is nothing humane about killing someone who doesn't want to die, so drop the pretense and hang them in the town square.  Free admission, and no restrictions for the press.  Want to show how the head ripped off the body on the front page?  Go for it!  If we as a people choose this manner of punishment, we should be confronted with its truth. 
If its deterrence we are after, maybe leave them to hang for a month or two as a reminder to those who may have been of like mind as the poor guilty bastard.  Few issues in this world are black and white, but certainly death is one of them.

 

[jollyjacktar]

We must witness it, so that we never forget how painful of a decision it is to kill another human being.

I think it would be quite painless to sentence the truly dangerous to death as was earlier suggested, before it got derailed to include the run of the mill murderer by some here.  Except for the die hard bleeding faint of heart I don't think you'd find too much sympathy among the Canadian populous for the likes Bernardo, Pickton, Olson et al getting their necks adjusted.  And some, like me would be happy for them to be fed into a wood chipper, feet first.  And as for cost, the sooner after the sentence the cheaper the cost to the state.  The truly dangerous offenders out there will not be safely readmitted into society, nor I suggest will they find any worthwhile remorse of their crimes during a lengthy incarceration.  So, what's the point/benefit of incarceration for these creatures?

 

[exabedtech]

I think it would be quite painless to sentence the truly dangerous to death as was earlier suggested, before it got derailed to include the run of the mill murderer by some here.  Except for the die hard bleeding faint of heart I don't think you'd find too much sympathy among the Canadian populous for the likes Bernardo, Pickton, Olson et al getting their necks adjusted.  And some, like me would be happy for them to be fed into a wood chipper, feet first.  And as for cost, the sooner after the sentence the cheaper the cost to the state.  The truly dangerous offenders out there will not be safely readmitted into society, nor I suggest will they find any worthwhile remorse of their crimes during a lengthy incarceration.  So, what's the point/benefit of incarceration for these creatures?

There are cases like Bernardo and that jackass ex-colonel where the woodchipper would be the preferred option.  Where the 'run of the mill' murderer gets involved is in the cut off.  Which cases exactly should be capital ones and how certain should you be of guilt.  In our system, guilty is guilty whether it were a tough and close decision or a slam dunk.  It is nice when the idiot chooses to videotape everything, but not all of them are so stupid.  We're all aware of high profile  murder cases where the 'guilty' party spend years in jail before being found innocent.  Olsen and Guy-Paul Morin would be judged equally if we choose the sexual exploitation and murder of children as our litmus test for execution.  Russel Williams and David Milgaard would both be judged the same if it were to be sexual deviants who kill their victims.

Yes, there are plenty of wonderful places that choose to execute...North Korea, Cuba, China, United States (some), Uganda, Sudan, Saudi Arabia and a bunch of others.  Missing from this list would be the majority of countries most like our own.

 

[jollyjacktar]

One name for you then... Allan Legere.  Nuff said. :rage:

 

[Jarnhamar]

Which clearly proves the point- murders should be allowed to hang themselves

 

[larry Strong]

Which clearly proves the point- murders should be allowed to hang themselves

However I have serious doubts that with them being the cowards that they are, that most of them would have the intestinal fortitude to follow through with hanging themselves.

 

[GAP]

Oh I hate indecision.....we could help them.....