QOR Para Coy & parachute tasking reserve sub-units

[Infanteer]

No Spr Earl, the Westies, the Eddies, and franco-para unit (Regiment de Saganauy?) lost their tasking quite some time ago. I do believe the Hasty P‘s have recently been given the tasking to help support the QOR though.

 

[combat_medic]

The only way to be a pilot in the reserves is if you live within close proximity to a base that has a helicopter squadron, AND you must have a rotary pilot‘s lisence before you can apply. The reserves WILL NOT train you to be a pilot nor will they pay for flight training or reimburse you if you get the training on your own. So, if you have $18,000 to take the courses, knock yourself out.

As for reserve para, the Queen‘s Own Rifles are it, and rumour has it that even they will be losing their para capabilities in the near future.

So, to answer your questions; no, and no.

 

[leopard11]

/

 

[Pikache]

How stuff flies around.

Hasty Ps is getting para tasking, same with Lincs and Winks, as far as I was told by a Hasty P buddy of mine.

 

[combat_medic]

Leopard: Getting the basic para course and being employed as a paratrooper are two different things. Anyone can take the basic para course, if they get nominated and can pass the fitness test. There are Naval BPSO officers who have the course. Are they ever going to be employed as a paratrooper? Not bloody likely.

 

[leopard11]

Ok, i never said anything about them being paratroopers, simply that they could take the course and get there wings.  I was just throwing out another option for the initial question of being reserves and having wings.

 

[McInnes]

BTW, how does one become a paratrooper? Do you simply get your wings and wait untill they need paratroopers and you get an offer or a recommendation from a CO?

 

[4CDO PARA]

I know this thread is ancient, however if you are still interested in knowing;
A Jump qualified soldier becomes a paratrooper by serving in a parachute company. With the para coy they will go through some variation of a Para Indoc including Airborne role specific training ( there is currently some variation to these credentials between the Vandoo, RCR, PPCLI and QOR Para companies ) after which they are usually awarded silver wings ( commonly referred to as white wings ) then after serving in a hard para role for 1 year they keep their "white wings" for their career. Any soldier who has completed their BPara is referred to as a Military Parachutist. Those performing the role in a Para Coy are Paratroopers.

 

[pbi]

We need PPCLI Guy here: he recently did G3 LFCA and could say exactly what tasking the QOR have or do not officially have with respect to sp for CPC. When I was A/G3-G3Ops of LFCA (1998-2000) the QOR were not tasked to provide a para coy, although the unit was keeping the idea alive as a morale/retention issue. What they were tasked to do was (through 32 CBG) generate Res para-qual pers to aug CPC as required. This was not at all the same thing as having a para coy role. Cheers.

 

[HollywoodHitman]

The Westies had a jump platoon until the early 90's. The residual was a TOW platoon and AA capability. Both were successful endeavours but it's safe to say there were many good, experienced guys who moved on as a result.......

The idea of Res. Jump Pl. is not one that should be looked upon lightly. The money involved in training and maintaining troops' skills on LAV's and whatnot, as well as their proper employment on the battlefield would be too high. Airborne is a means of insertion and once on the ground the Airborne soldier fulfills the role of light infanteer. If the military were to provide their light infantry reserve units with more slots in jump courses, the Reg units could draw upon the reserve units to augment and support their jump companies in case they were needed. Helo's are in greater supply than Hercs and I believe CPC doesn't always use the Hercs or Griffons on their courses 9could be wrong on that one) so the idea that there are not enough resources to keep troops jump qualified isn't really the case.......Round trip ticked on West Jet from Vancouver to Edmonton is about 250$........Anyway.......

Generally speaking, Airborne troops by nature are highly motivated, fit and would be considered reasonably competent or better in their primary infantry skills before being allowed to serve in that capacity. The reserve troops who would participate in this type of organization would also demonstrate the same kinds of attributes, physically and skill related as their counterparts in the Regs. It's worked well in the past, who's to say it couldn't now?

Everyone knows what kind of motivation is often provided by giving the young troops something to work for.........

My 2 cents.

 

[pbi]

Further to my last, I remember the QOR "Jump Coy" fairly well: I knew some of its original members: I believe one of them later went on to the Skyhawks. Although they struggled wth the same obstacles that all Army Res face, my recollection is they could field about a platoon of dependables, and had very high morale. They were good, at least in part, because the people who would join an org like that would be more fit and more highly motivated than the average soldier.

If we are going to have a RegF para capability, then IMHO we need to be able to augment/repl that with good quality Res soldiers. The problem we face is the ancient enemy of the voluntary Res: time. Cheers.

 

[Razic]

I think if you guys saw the QOR jump company in action you would support us having the tasking.

 

[bossi]

Two cents, two points:

1.  From a logistical standpoint, the Hast & PER are closer to CPC so I'd give them the nod vis-a-vis the task of augmenting CPC.

2.a.  Once upon a time the jump course was more readily available - in essence it was an incentive, and nominees were considered to be the "top soldiers" from any given unit.  I'd prefer to "spread the wealth", as opposed to restricting it to only one unit. 

2.b.  Another consideration to the problems associated with having all one's eggs in one basket is that of augmentation to operations - there are still many reservists who are either unavailable or unwilling to volunteer for operations.  As such, if the parachute capability is limited to only one unit, the statistical probability increases that parachute training would be wasted on somebody who will never deploy (and, last time I checked, the Army was trying to not waste money ...).  Conversely, by distributing jump course vacancies more widely, better selection criteria would ensure ouir money is well spent on training the right soldiers.  The reason I mention this is because last year the Ontario unit that deployed the most troops on operations wasn't the QOR.

 

[pbi]

So bossi was I right in my recollection: there actually is no "Jump Coy" task, but rather a task to provide indiv aug to CPC? Cheers.

 

[bossi]

So bossi was I right in my recollection: there actually is no "Jump Coy" task, but rather a task to provide indiv aug to CPC?

If I were to provdie my OPINION in public, you'd be able to hear the anguished screams all the way over there ...

As an unofficial, off-the-record compromise, can you say "mission creep" ... ?

 

[Blindspot]

If I were to provdie my OPINION in public, you'd be able to hear the anguished screams all the way over there ...

To quote a MCpl who was trying to give a lecture at the same time as a pipes and drum practice, "SHUT THE F* UP!"  

More seriously, I believe the removal of the Jump company from the QOR would be tantamount to castration. It's ingrained into the culture of the regiment and a source of pride for its members.

I understand also the fiscal and strategic reasons others might advocate stripping the QOR of it's Jump company as the political trend toward the military is to slash rather than augment or add capability. Why not go further? Why not amalgamate all of the Toronto infantry regiments into one super infantry reserve regiment. Ensure that an airborne tasked company was part of this regiment. This would also make perfect fiscal and strategic sense. Somehow though, I don't think any of the regiments would agree to this by the very nature of their individual regimental cultures.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't believe a member of the QOR would be any more willing to loose his maroon beret than a member of the 48th or Tor Scot would be willing to loose his kilt.

 

[HollywoodHitman]

For a short while when the Jump Platoon (it was an actual unit tasking) was shut down, there were thoughts that the unit would crumble. Some things changed, soldiers came and went and the Regiment lived. A tough pill to swallow, but hopefully common sense will prevail and jump courses will be offered to units and deserving soldiers Canada wide.

Boggles my mind that jump courses are given to troops (no offence to those who work in the rear) who will never, ever use the skill, as a means of retention and motivation. Whynot motivate the young infanteers by giving them a chance to earn their wings?

Everyone has their place in the modern military, and it's no secret that the support trades are what makes the combat arms function at an admin level, but you won't see me getting a course thats out of my MOC just to motivate me or keep me in. The counter terrorist driving course would be fun.........

 

[pbi]

Maybe I'm being misunderstood here. I have not, anywhere, advocated the removal of the para role from the QOR. In fact, what I said was:

If we are going to have a RegF para capability, then IMHO we need to be able to augment/repl that with good quality Res soldiers. The problem we face is the ancient enemy of the voluntary Res: time.

I also said:

Although they struggled wth the same obstacles that all Army Res face, my recollection is they could field about a platoon of dependables, and had very high morale. They were good, at least in part, because the people who would join an org like that would be more fit and more highly motivated than the average soldier.

My point is that neither 32 CBG nor the QOR really have a "Para Coy Tasking". There is no such thing anymore. What they have (I suspect...unless things have changed...) is a tasking to generate indiv qual parachutists to augment CPC. Now, how the unit goes about doing this is really between the CO and the Bde Comd. If the QOR choose to group their augmentees into a single coy and do Para-related trg, fine. The concern in my mind is what is the trade off: is the unit meeting its BTS requirements, for example? Cheers.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Two cents, two points:

1. From a logistical standpoint, the Hast & PER are closer to CPC so I'd give them the nod vis-a-vis the task of augmenting CPC.

2.a. Once upon a time the jump course was more readily available - in essence it was an incentive, and nominees were considered to be the "top soldiers" from any given unit. I'd prefer to "spread the wealth", as opposed to restricting it to only one unit.

2.b. Another consideration to the problems associated with having all one's eggs in one basket is that of augmentation to operations - there are still many reservists who are either unavailable or unwilling to volunteer for operations. As such, if the parachute capability is limited to only one unit, the statistical probability increases that parachute training would be wasted on somebody who will never deploy (and, last time I checked, the Army was trying to not waste money ...). Conversely, by distributing jump course vacancies more widely, better selection criteria would ensure ouir money is well spent on training the right soldiers. The reason I mention this is because last year the Ontario unit that deployed the most troops on operations wasn't the QOR.

You should just see the 48th these days, every other guy sports a pair of wings, frig, 15 years and I could not get on a course
" 'cuz it (Jumping) belongs to the QOR and we have courses that you can take that is beneficial to the regiment"

Oh well, I will just practice jumping the curb...HAIR SPORN!

tess

 

[chrisp1j]

Some good points have been made about the Coy here. I'm not exactly sure of the stutus of the jump coy either. What I am sure of, is that we have the task of, and are capable of, supporting the CPC. For the most part, here's how:

We have the jumpmasters, and all of the equipment neccessary to keep soldiers current, because the CPC has no time for that.

We fill the chutes that keep the pilots current and our JMs often dispatch the soldiers from the aicraft (to keep the pilots and who ever needs to be current, current).

The reason we are capable of doing all of this, is because we have multiple paratroopers showing up for training, at the same time and same place. Can you imagine trying to have multiple   units trying to each keep men current? or having to clump together on different nights to get current?. The communications and logistics would be nightmarish, and wouldn't work. Thats why we have so many positions.