Putin Orders Agents to Eliminate Killers of Russians in Iraq

[Koenigsegg]

All true cowboy.  However, the reason it would scare the crap out of me, is not because of would happen to me, but instead what would happen to others, and my family.
But the terrorists seem to have show complete disregard for any human life... So I doubt such scare tactics would work on them...

 

[54/102 CEF]

Putin and the Russians need to get a grip.

How exactly is Russia going to track down and kill the assassins? Why does Russia feel it can or should do this - in another nation that is, officially at least, sovereign?

As for Sovereignty they are - but certainly the Russians are aggrieved parties at present. They are able to take whatever actions they deem necessary just like any other country. I would guess there are so many free agents on the go in Iraq they can get in very quietly. Tehir Intel will know who can help and who might need a demonstration of their concern. The whole aim being to terrorise the terrorists. Abdul - you`re not going to work today are you?

If they told you they`d have to ............ fill in the blank ................

Seriously - they have a long long tradition of putting the touch on people who hit a nerve. Trotsky in Mexico City - 1985 Beirut  http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&refer=home&sid=at2g4WjkKCO4.

 

[54/102 CEF]

thanks ever so! Russia are the Bad Guys. Always have been, always will be. They have not changed from the times of Ivan the Terrible. They are still an autocracy, and are still intent on conquest. Look at their actions since the fall of the Curtain: nuthin's changed.

They`re not the bad guys - they zero in on their interests and persue them - unlike lots of Chicken $hit countries out there. Stand up and be counted among friends or stand back I say.

A test - Who killed 30 million of their own citizens?

Stalin

Who cleared more territory than all the Allies in WW2

The Russians

Who screwed that up?

Stalin.

Who does Don Cherry keep his eye on?

You see a pattern here?

 

[54/102 CEF]

It didn't work in Afghanistan in the 70s, didn't work in Chechneya and doubt it will work in Iraq (if they decide to jump in). I also believe if they jump into Iraq, they'll cause a major concern to the US and its allies.

It didn`t work because they used a big army against an agile opponent. Anyone seen a big army out there?

I bet it will work real soon.

As for anyone else out their who thinks non state actors are the flavour of the day - can they stay on watch forever? I doubt it. So give up now and come in and claim your amnesty bonus.

 

[paracowboy]

they zero in on their interests and persue them

at the expense of everything else, including, or especially, Western-style Democracy. That makes them Bad Guys.

Stand up and be counted among friends or stand back I say

they have stood up, and counted themselves amongst our enemies as late as, oh...today.

 

[tamouh]

54/102
It didn`t work because they used a big army against an agile opponent. Anyone seen a big army out there?

I bet it will work real soon.

As for anyone else out their who thinks non state actors are the flavour of the day - can they stay on watch forever? I doubt it. So give up now and come in and claim your amnesty bonus.

It didn't work with the IRA, ETA, PLA ...etc. It just will not work. There are ample of examples it just doesn't work. You can crush them for a period of time, but can't fight them forever.  IRA/ETA just recently denounced the armed tactics fearing huge back-lash in the new age of War on Terrorism.

 

[orange.paint]

I want Russia to get involved.  Maybe they will show that they are still a force not to be messed with.  Sure, they are sloppy, but that sloppyness helps to keep potential enemies from attacking. 

So I'm guessing you have directly worked for Russian sleeper cells?Know how sloppy their ops are? Don't kid yourself on conscripts being mindless idiots,many have seen a lot of combat.Remember they have been working against Muslim extremest for many more years than us in Canada have.mess in Chechnya?You can kill the terrorist you can't kill the ideology,therefore can you really defeat it without total genocide.

Russia has vested interest in Iraq due to the large debt sum from their purchase of Russian equipment during the early 90's.It would make sense for them to want a stable Iraq,Russians are most likely operating there as they are here in Canada as economic spies/operatives.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Slavic peoples in general, and the Russians in particular, have elevated revenge to an art form.  I have no doubt that they could find their guys.  Western countries offer bribes to sell out the rats.  Russians would make you watch as they twist a bayonet into your mother's ear.  I know which one would get my attention more.

 

[The Bread Guy]

A bit more on the same, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?ID=16328

Seek and destroy: A new FSB era
Putin's order to seek and destroy the killers of four Russian diplomats abducted in Iraq is addressed to no one in particular, but it is clear which of the Soviet KGB's successor agencies will take the lead.

Simon Saradzhyan, ISN Security Watch, 3 Jul 06

Russian president Vladimir Putin last week ordered his country's secret services to seek and destroy the killers of four Russian diplomats abducted in Iraq. The move is not only designed to divert public anger over the slaying, but signals that the Kremlin is not in the least bit shy about extrajudicial executions of suspected terrorists and radicals abroad.

"The president has ordered the special forces to take all necessary measures to find and destroy the criminals who killed Russian diplomats in Iraq," the Kremlin press service said.

Putin made the statements during a meeting in Moscow with Saudi Arabia's Prince Salman bin Abdul-Aziz Al Saud. Russia would be "grateful to all its friends for any information on the criminals who killed our citizens in Iraq, Putin told the Saudi prince.

Putin's order came two days after the Russian Foreign Ministry confirmed that four Russians diplomats working at the embassy in Iraq had been killed. Mujahedin Shura Council, an al-Qaida linked group, claimed responsibility for their abduction 3 June and subsequent execution. The group had demanded that the Kremlin pull its troops out of Chechnya in exchange for freeing the diplomats.

Putin did not specify which of Russia's secret services would be assigned the lead role, but it was director of the Federal Security Service (FSB) Nikolai Patrushev who was the first to publicly vow to fulfill the order.

Patrushev made it clear that Putin's order reflected the Kremlin's vision on what agencies and how should be dealing with terrorists outside Russia. "This is no accidental order. It fits the logic of what we are doing," Patrushev said.

Currently, operations outside Russia fall under the jurisdiction of the Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) and the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces (GRU). However, the SVR can use force abroad only to protect embassy personnel and visiting officials.

The FSB, the main successor of KGB, has largely focused on domestic security and its operations abroad are limited mostly to the prevention of recruitment of diplomats by foreign intelligence services. The FSB's border guard service is said to conduct intelligence operations within a 200-km margin of the Russian border.

But more than anything, Putin's seek and destroy order indicates that these limitations will soon be exorcised. A State Duma bill set to be passed in a second reading on 5 July gives the FSB the authority to go beyond information-sharing with its foreign counterparts and dispatch commandos to strike terrorist groups and bases, according to Gennady Gudkov, member of Duma's pro-Kremlin Unite Russia faction who sits on the lower chamber's security committee.

Gudkov, also a former counter-intelligence officer, told ISN Security Watch that the bill would merely legitimize what has already been practiced by Russian security services. "We are walking along the tracks left by practice" of fighting terrorism.

He said he saw no contradiction in the fact that the FSB would be legally allowed to use force outside Russia.

But allowing the FSB to use force outside Russia could cause some tensions among the country secret service agencies, particularly the GRU, which has commando units and the right to conduct operations abroad.

And there are questions about the FSB's rules of engagement, with some lawmakers concerned that the FSB's use of force abroad could lead to scandal, especially in the Middle East where such operations would be unilateral and could cause an uproar.

The public order by the commander-in-chief to seek and destroy the killers of Russian diplomats demonstrates that FSB and other successors to the KGB are reviving the Soviet secret service's global reach in the sphere of covert operations.

Of equal importance, the Kremlin has sent a clear message that it no longer finds it necessary to try conceal its approval of targeted assassinations.

This represents a change in course. Previously, Russian authorities would not admit responsibility for extrajudicial killings of individuals labeled as terrorists by the Kremlin. Russia did concede that two Russians convicted for killing Chechen rebel leader Zelimkhan Yandarbiev in Qatar in 2004 were agents, but insisted that they merely had been on an intelligence gathering mission - not a mission to assassinate. The agents were returned to Russia to serve the rest of their prison sentences, but their whereabouts are now unknown.

However, Russian special services wasted no time in claiming responsibility for targeted assassinations inside Russia, including the assassination of Chechen rebel leaders Aslan Maskhadov, Abdul-Khalim Sadulaev and Arab warlord Khattab.

But while eliminating Yandarbiev was relatively easy given his public life-style in Qatar, finding members of the little-known Mujahedin Shura Council in the chaos of war-torn Iraq might prove a mission impossible for Russian secret agents.

After all, Russia's once formidable network of agents and informants in Iraq is no longer what it was in the 1990s.

Ivan Safranchuk, head of the Moscow office of the Russian-based Center for Defense Information, says Russian agents will require the assistance of US-led coalition forces, the Iraqi government, and Saudi secret services to hunt down the Mujahedin Shura Council.

And it appears that the Kremlin is already reaching out for help, as Putin announced the seek and destroy order in the presence of the Saudi prince, whose secret service networks are better positioned to spy on al-Qaida groups in Iraq.

Some experts also believe that there may have been a Chechen rebel link to the executions in Iraq, pointing to the demand that Russian troops leave Chechnya.

It is unlikely, after all, that Iraqi insurgents would target Russians on their own, especially since Moscow has vehemently opposed the US-led military campaign in Iraq and clearly has kept its distance from Washington on the issue.

As such, Moscow is sending clear message that the execution of four Russian diplomats in Iraq will not go unpunished, and that the FSB intends to rise to the prowess of its Soviet predecessor. However, while the FSB's seek and destroy mission may start out in Iraq, it could very well end up back in Chechnya.

 

[The Bread Guy]

The next step:  putting it into law....

Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

Putin allowed to use commandos abroad
Oliver Bullough, Reuters, 7 Jul 06
http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/international/ticker/detail/Putin_allowed_to_use_commandos_abroad.html?siteSect=143&sid=6877046&cKey=1152263375000

Russian lawmakers on Friday unanimously endorsed a Kremlin request that President Vladimir Putin be allowed to send special forces to hunt down terrorists anywhere in the world.  Putin demanded the right in response to the murder last month of five Russian diplomats by Iraqi insurgents.  He has ordered that the militants be hunted down and "eliminated", and security services have offered $10 million for information leading to their capture.  Senators in the Federation Council upper house of parliament rapidly approved the bill on Friday morning. Putin now has to sign it into law...

 

[sober_ruski]

Dont say that Slavs take revenge to a new level.
It's just been historically that whoever tries to cross them, gets 100x back.
Think WTC was bad? Now imagine appartment buildings being completely destroyed at night to maximize the death toll. In one case only 1 person out of the whole building survived because he wasnt home that night. So please do not critisize the only methods that work. Those people only understand violence and they are going to get what they've been asking for a looooong time 

 

[George Wallace]

Perhaps you have seen the movie "Munich"?  It isn't anything new.  We know the Soviets did it in the past.  The Israelis do it.  Many nations have or are doing it.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Dont say that Slavs take revenge to a new level.
It's just been historically that whoever tries to cross them, gets 100x back.
Think WTC was bad? Now imagine appartment buildings being completely destroyed at night to maximize the death toll. In one case only 1 person out of the whole building survived because he wasnt home that night. So please do not critisize the only methods that work. Those people only understand violence and they are going to get what they've been asking for a looooong time 

Did I say it was wrong? No.  Did I criticize it? No.  I have said all along, and will continue to say, WE CANNOT FIGHT A CONVENTIONAL WAR AGAINST AN UNCONVENTIONAL ENEMY.  I was raised around lots of Eastern Europeans, and their ability to overreact is not my imagination.  If you read my post, that is made it past my comment about Slavic revenge trends,  you would find that I supported the idea.

 

[jeremyoneil]

Russia isn't acting any differently than Britain did when they used the S.A.S. to kill members of P.I.R.A. who tried to cross into N. Ireland in the 70's. They just didn't announce it to the press. Russia has never been concerned with being P.C. there was a hostage incident where Spetznaz snatched one of the hostage takers, decapitated him, attached a note demanding their surrender to the head and threw it into the building. It worked. Their methods may be cold but they do the job.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I once worked with a fellow who was stationed in our embassy in Beirut in the mid - 80's, he told me the following story. 

At that time there were problems with some foreigners becoming targets of kidnapping and killing by some of the extremist factions.  Several of the Russian staff were taken one day and demands were made to the Embassy.  The kidnappers were not getting their way and killed one of the staffers to show their resolve.  In response a KGB wet team was dispatched from the mother country, they in turn identified who was responsible and obtained several family members of the kidnappers.  These unfortunate people met a hasty nasty end and were left for the bad guys to find.  Shortly thereafter the surviving hostages were released without further incident and the Russian delegation was not bothered again by anyone. 

My wife spent several years in that area of the world.  She told me it is common knowledge who is up to monkey business there and that is why it was easy for the Russians to get revenge.  Even though they are a shadow of their former selves, I for one would not want to be kicking the Bear in the balls without looking behing my back for some time afterwards.  I am sure there are those in Baghdad who will grass them if the dosh is worth it.

 

[Centurian1985]

Putin and the Russians need to get a grip. How exactly is Russia going to track down and kill the assassins? Why does Russia feel it can or should do this - in another nation that is, officially at least, sovereign?  Given their record in Chechnya, I don't see how they plan to operate secret hit teams in Iraq, where they have no presence and are not Coalition members.  Then again, their heart is in the right place. 

Although Russia does not have an 'official' military presence, it is highly likely that they have an 'unofficial' and discrete presence in the country that has been kept in place since before 1990...

 

[GAP]

Russian Assassins in Iraq
October 10, 2006
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htintel/articles/20061010.aspx

Last June, after five Russian diplomats were killed by Sunni Arab terrorists, many experienced counter-terrorism professionals expected the Russians to act. Russia, over some two centuries, has developed some very successful techniques for dealing with such terrorism. When confronted with terrorist attacks like this, the Russians go in and play by terrorist rules. They terrorize the terrorists. Back in the 1980s, for example, Islamic terrorists in Lebanon kidnapped a Russian diplomat. The Russians (then the Soviets, a distinction without much difference in these matters) quickly found out which faction had their guy, kidnapped a relative of one of the kidnappers, and had a body part delivered to the Islamic kidnappers. The message was, release the Russian diplomat unharmed, or the KGB (Soviet secret police) would keep sending body parts, and grabbing kinfolk of the kidnappers. The Russian diplomat was released. Apparently that lesson has been forgotten, at least in some parts of Iraq.

Or has it? Nothing has been heard of any Russian retribution over the last four months. Russian president Putin publicly announced that something would be done. The Russians certainly have the means. For thirty years, from 1973-2003, Russian agents (from the KGB, then the FSB) worked with the Iraqi government on security matters. Saddam Hussein originally brought the KGB in to help him deal with enemies in Iraq. The KGB gets some of the credit for Saddam surviving dozens of coup and assassination attempts. In return, Saddam shared information he had on terrorist groups. Saddam provided a safe-haven for Arab terrorists (including al Qaeda), partly to protect himself from them, partly to have access to their services. During those three decades of cooperation, some 70,000 Russian military advisors, many of them intelligence and security specialists, served in Iraq. All of this is known from documents captured in Iraq in 2003, and interrogations of Iraqi officials. The Russians denied most of it officially, confirmed some of it privately. Russia and the United States have, since September 11, 2001, been cooperating in the fight against Islamic terrorists. The U.S. knows that the Russians still have a lot of contacts in Iraq, especially among those who served in Saddam's intelligence and security services. Russia has not been sharing a lot of this information.

Intelligence organizations do not issue press releases detailing their progress in these kinds of operations. Often they do not even announce success. But in this case, the Russians would likely announce that they had killed those responsible for murdering their diplomats. To send a message, so to speak. Another potential problem is that the Iraqi government, or the United States, might not take kindly to Russian agents, with a license to kill, wandering about freely. Then again, the guys who killed the Russians live in very rough neighborhoods. Iraqi police and U.S. troops only enter those areas heavily armed and ready for a fight. But the Russians know this, and have agents and commandos trained for this sort of thing. Finding the killers, and getting to them, could take a while. The Russians tend to be patient, and persistent, in these matters. They also realize that they have a reputation to uphold. Many times, local thugs and radicals have avoided harming Russian diplomats because of the Russian tradition of retribution. Break that tradition, and you put a lot of Russian diplomats at risk in the future. So the Russians have a practical reason for settling scores with this particular bunch of Sunni Arab terrorists. The only thing that could stop the Russians is someone else having gotten to the killers first. The attrition among Sunni Arab terrorists is very high. If American or Iraqi counter-terror action has already killed the guys the Russians are hunting, it would still probably be announced, just to show that the Russians were on the case. So, four months of silence probably means that the Russians are still after the people who killed their diplomats.

 

[Big Red]

Putin and the Russians need to get a grip.

How exactly is Russia going to track down and kill the assassins? Why does Russia feel it can or should do this - in another nation that is, officially at least, sovereign?

Given their record in Chechnya, I don't see how they plan to operate secret hit teams in Iraq, where they have no presence and are not Coalition members.


Then again, their heart is in the right place.

Getting information in Iraq is just a matter of spreading the right amount of money around in the right places.

 

[KevinB]

Getting information in Iraq is just a matter of spreading the right amount of money around in the right places.

Yeah but what would you know  ;D