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To my knowledge, there are no non-army EME personnel. Where the airforce veh. tech came from I have no idea. Are you sure he was a vehicle tech then and not a remuster just attending? Lots of people remuster to the airforce but still attend their old trades' functions.
AmmoTech90
Army.ca Veteran
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Dont forget the Navy, Clearance divers also perform EOD.
There are no reserve Ammo Tech positions period and no reg force Ammo Techs posted to AES'. A friend of mine was offered a position there but he would have had to rebadge to Engineer, therefore I believe the EOD positions, at least at the reserve AES', are Combat Engineers. There might be some potential for an Air Force EOD type to be employeed at one of the Reg Force AES', but I doubt it, it is an Engineer Squadron after all...
There are no reserve Ammo Tech positions period and no reg force Ammo Techs posted to AES'. A friend of mine was offered a position there but he would have had to rebadge to Engineer, therefore I believe the EOD positions, at least at the reserve AES', are Combat Engineers. There might be some potential for an Air Force EOD type to be employeed at one of the Reg Force AES', but I doubt it, it is an Engineer Squadron after all...
E
EME Tony
Guest
Hi Folks,
New to the forum and just a few thoughts. Navy had an MP type branch known as Regulating Rates. A Regulating Petty Officer would be appointed for shipboard security and supervision of defaulters. They would be your professional "Sheriffs" on board larger ships much like the MP Det in an Inf Bn. The Shore Patrol were duty men(or extra duty men) depending on the circumstances for smaller ships, training establishments or to aid the Regulators in and out of their normal harbour duties. At one time the old RCN had a ship in harbour, I believe it was the HMCS Sioux, that was the cleanest ship in the fleet but never left harbour.
Before uglification, sorry (thinking voice), unification in '68 the old RCEME Corps was the third largest Corps in the Canadian Army (see Col Johnston's book Canada's Craftsmen).
During the First World War the majority of the Cdn Ord Corps medals for bravery were earned by their fledgling Engineering Branch (prime example is SSgt Hurry, Weapon's Tech) where some of the prime EME Tenants were developed-"Repair as far forward as possible", and "Equipped and Trained to fight in their own defence". This earned the RCOC their "Royal title and later their "Combatant" status. In 1944 the RCOC(E) and the mechanical engineering branches of the RCASC, RCE and RCAC were combined to form the RCEME. A RCEME Soldier was trained as a basic infantryman first before he received technical trades training(unless of course he already had a skilled trade). Our first Col Commandant was Gen Andy McNaughton, a father of the Canadian Artillery (see Vimy Ridge and Rolling Barrages) and General of the Canadian Army in WW2. He was also an Engineer. The RCEME Home station was named McNaughton Barracks where our Memorial Gates still stand.
EME takes its mounted traditions from that time, our patrol dress and current mess dress shows our shared "blood" lineage to the RCOC/ RCE and further back to the RCA and Board of Ordnance. We were organized into Field Workshops,Technical Regiments, Technical Squadron's and Light Aid Detachments. Only recently have we reintroduced the use of a Lance Party for Ceremonial Purposes.
During ug- unification the RCAF Engineering Branch consisting of MSE Techs and Officers numbering near 600, were added to the bulk of the RCEME Corps to form LORE. At that time the RCEME Air Trades (primarily for Artillery spotting and Tac Hel) were formally removed to Air OPS and Tac Radio and Radar Repairs moved to the Sigs.(Really just put us back to our roots in some ways) Training for RCEME Air trades had been carried out at Rivers, Manitoba. That is where our light blue band came from and is the only light blue we carry. Yes, Tac Hel Sqns and Air Bases still have EME soldiers attached to them but we all wear green.(in fact I hear the Air Types will be working in green soon too, I guess blue attracts attention on the ground)
EME Branch is currently in the process of transferring all its Managing Authority back to the Army. The missing elements that are the Canadian version of what is known as the Regimental System are being researched and re-instated or filled in if never present, to bring us in line with the traditions of the rest of the Canadian Army. Every new EME soldier must complete the new Soldier Qualification, annual Field Craft refresher training, as well as the Combat Leaders Course during their trade progression. As well as being craftsmen, all EME soldiers must also attend Regimental Training at all levels of trade advancement. Besides common technical skills and doctrine, the QL3 apprentice learns Regimental History and the battle drills of a Mobile Repair Team driver, QL5 journeymen learn MRT Commander Drills, QL6 is Tactical moving and siting a Maint Pl defensive position and QL7 is at the Company Level. Turns out to be quite the area of real estate when you consider the sizes of vehicles we deal with and still try to not attract allot of attention as it tends to draw enemy fire.
Currently our school belongs to CFSTG but who knows what our future will bring, our Home Station has already moved from Kingston to Borden. Our cousins the Engineers said there school would never leave BC to join the rest of the Combat Arms. Possibly we'll get our combatant status back that we earned as RCOC(E) those many years ago and make the move too.The names may change but the job stays the same, as far forward as possible!
New to the forum and just a few thoughts. Navy had an MP type branch known as Regulating Rates. A Regulating Petty Officer would be appointed for shipboard security and supervision of defaulters. They would be your professional "Sheriffs" on board larger ships much like the MP Det in an Inf Bn. The Shore Patrol were duty men(or extra duty men) depending on the circumstances for smaller ships, training establishments or to aid the Regulators in and out of their normal harbour duties. At one time the old RCN had a ship in harbour, I believe it was the HMCS Sioux, that was the cleanest ship in the fleet but never left harbour.
Before uglification, sorry (thinking voice), unification in '68 the old RCEME Corps was the third largest Corps in the Canadian Army (see Col Johnston's book Canada's Craftsmen).
During the First World War the majority of the Cdn Ord Corps medals for bravery were earned by their fledgling Engineering Branch (prime example is SSgt Hurry, Weapon's Tech) where some of the prime EME Tenants were developed-"Repair as far forward as possible", and "Equipped and Trained to fight in their own defence". This earned the RCOC their "Royal title and later their "Combatant" status. In 1944 the RCOC(E) and the mechanical engineering branches of the RCASC, RCE and RCAC were combined to form the RCEME. A RCEME Soldier was trained as a basic infantryman first before he received technical trades training(unless of course he already had a skilled trade). Our first Col Commandant was Gen Andy McNaughton, a father of the Canadian Artillery (see Vimy Ridge and Rolling Barrages) and General of the Canadian Army in WW2. He was also an Engineer. The RCEME Home station was named McNaughton Barracks where our Memorial Gates still stand.
EME takes its mounted traditions from that time, our patrol dress and current mess dress shows our shared "blood" lineage to the RCOC/ RCE and further back to the RCA and Board of Ordnance. We were organized into Field Workshops,Technical Regiments, Technical Squadron's and Light Aid Detachments. Only recently have we reintroduced the use of a Lance Party for Ceremonial Purposes.
During ug- unification the RCAF Engineering Branch consisting of MSE Techs and Officers numbering near 600, were added to the bulk of the RCEME Corps to form LORE. At that time the RCEME Air Trades (primarily for Artillery spotting and Tac Hel) were formally removed to Air OPS and Tac Radio and Radar Repairs moved to the Sigs.(Really just put us back to our roots in some ways) Training for RCEME Air trades had been carried out at Rivers, Manitoba. That is where our light blue band came from and is the only light blue we carry. Yes, Tac Hel Sqns and Air Bases still have EME soldiers attached to them but we all wear green.(in fact I hear the Air Types will be working in green soon too, I guess blue attracts attention on the ground)
EME Branch is currently in the process of transferring all its Managing Authority back to the Army. The missing elements that are the Canadian version of what is known as the Regimental System are being researched and re-instated or filled in if never present, to bring us in line with the traditions of the rest of the Canadian Army. Every new EME soldier must complete the new Soldier Qualification, annual Field Craft refresher training, as well as the Combat Leaders Course during their trade progression. As well as being craftsmen, all EME soldiers must also attend Regimental Training at all levels of trade advancement. Besides common technical skills and doctrine, the QL3 apprentice learns Regimental History and the battle drills of a Mobile Repair Team driver, QL5 journeymen learn MRT Commander Drills, QL6 is Tactical moving and siting a Maint Pl defensive position and QL7 is at the Company Level. Turns out to be quite the area of real estate when you consider the sizes of vehicles we deal with and still try to not attract allot of attention as it tends to draw enemy fire.
Currently our school belongs to CFSTG but who knows what our future will bring, our Home Station has already moved from Kingston to Borden. Our cousins the Engineers said there school would never leave BC to join the rest of the Combat Arms. Possibly we'll get our combatant status back that we earned as RCOC(E) those many years ago and make the move too.The names may change but the job stays the same, as far forward as possible!
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McG said:
With reguarregardsis item, LOG is very much a "purple" trade and when it comes to it's NCM's there is no varriavariance's QL3 or any other QL level regardless what uniform they wear (to the best of my knowledge). But this is not so true in our Officer levels of leadership. A LOG officer who wears a Blue uniform will always serve on an Air Force or Training Base one that Wears Green will always be to a Army posting or training same is true for navy if they wear black they will be at one of the coasts or at a training the only exception that I am aware of are for holding or OJT proupos example I am on an Air Force base but we recently had a Army LOG officer working here while he awaited training
In contradition and just to see how many other persons out there got this same story, as an NCM I was told durrindurings in Borden that because I wore a Blue uniform My first posting WOULD be to an Air Force Wing.. and that the only way I would get an Army posting off my 3's is if I had NOK (mom didn't count) at an Army base currently survinservingave them seperaseparationance I would guess). Did any other of you LOG (spificspecificallyy) get this story off your 3's or is my course the only one????
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I can add the medical side to this... There was talk a couple of years ago of turning the medical trades army. This does makes sense since the majority of medical personnel are posted to the Fd Ambs. Where it went from talk I have no clue. In the medical trades it doesnt really matter what coulour you wear, the training covers the basics of the field and garrision (including the air bases and navy bases). Ship medics must complete the sea indoc the same as all trade.
medicineman
Army.ca Legend
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One other thing there Ratcatcher - you`re supposed to be fit to fly if posted to an Air Base, since one of the primary reasons for medics in the Air Force is med evacs.
As for the Log Officers, having worked at RMC for a number of years, I can attest to the fact that there are environmental MOC`s for Log Officers and their training reflects that.
Cheers, and a Happy Army New Year to All.
MM
As for the Log Officers, having worked at RMC for a number of years, I can attest to the fact that there are environmental MOC`s for Log Officers and their training reflects that.
Cheers, and a Happy Army New Year to All.
MM
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IMHO, the "Purple Trades" were and probably are the worst thing to happen to the CF dues to uglification (love that term!). At first unification applied to the operational coordination of the three services and that was a good thing but a Sailor was a Sailor, an Airman an Airman and a Soldier a Soldier. It's when the green duds were brought in (Damn Hellier's oily hide!) and we entered the era of senior leadership that were essentially political yes men in uniform that this term and associated thinking emerged and flourished. All this did was to drive a wedge between our respective trade groups and corps and the fine folks we supported. There is nothing a guy in the field wants to hear like, "I don't care what you guys do with these trucks, I'm not Army, I'm purple. It's bad enough that I'm here. I should be on an air base." I had a young fellow throw that one at me when I told him to cam his vehicle and dig a shellscrape. When I was done with him, he had an intimate knowledge of a shovel and cam net, and he was purple.
Again IMHO, after QL3 support trades should be posted according to their environment which should be determined at enrolment, that way there are no surprises. Once on the ground (or boat), there should be further training specific to the environment such as Sea Environmental, Fieldcraft, Weapons Trg, etc. Further trades training can have similar points where the system has common things but should primarily emphasize training in the environment. The individual should then remain in that environment unless posted to a combined command level like Disneyland on the Rideau.
Speaking from an Army Logistics background, tradespeople do well in the Army if that is what they know and are well trained in, I would imagine the same to be true for the other services. It's when you mix and tell everyone they aren't really what they are wearing that problems arise.
Peter
I try not to sound like the old soldier I am, and use big words like many of the more educated folks. I'll go back to my whittling and Matlock now.....
Again IMHO, after QL3 support trades should be posted according to their environment which should be determined at enrolment, that way there are no surprises. Once on the ground (or boat), there should be further training specific to the environment such as Sea Environmental, Fieldcraft, Weapons Trg, etc. Further trades training can have similar points where the system has common things but should primarily emphasize training in the environment. The individual should then remain in that environment unless posted to a combined command level like Disneyland on the Rideau.
Speaking from an Army Logistics background, tradespeople do well in the Army if that is what they know and are well trained in, I would imagine the same to be true for the other services. It's when you mix and tell everyone they aren't really what they are wearing that problems arise.
Peter
I try not to sound like the old soldier I am, and use big words like many of the more educated folks. I'll go back to my whittling and Matlock now.....
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PeterLT quote
Again IMHO, after QL3 support trades should be posted according to their environment which should be determined at enrolment, that way there are no surprises. Once on the ground (or boat), there should be further training specific to the environment such as Sea Environmental, Fieldcraft, Weapons Trg, etc. Further trades training can have similar points where the system has common things but should primarily emphasize training in the environment. The individual should then remain in that environment unless posted to a combined command level like Disneyland on the Rideau
As a purple trade I totally agree (me army uniform) We see the lack of knowledge best when it comes to JLC/JCNO or PLQ (whatever its called now). There has been debate over why purple trades should do JNCO(or Mod 6 i think it is now). When others who did their course on Air force or Navy bases don't! Its really hard when you have been on a non-field postings and suddenly your in an combat arms unit and on deployment on Combat ops you haven't got a clue as to where, when and what to do? When I was on Op Apollo (I was luck did a WATC JLC/JNCO) at least I had a small clue as what to do. But some of the others didn't. We had on support trade who joined us in theatre and had never done anything Army (ie section attacks or patrols) and with in 4 days in country was on Operations in the mountains. Some where along the line support trades need to be trained to the enviroment they are working in or stay with the element uniform you where. Funny if I go to the Navy I get sea enviromental training but not the airforce or army. There its learn as you go.
Again IMHO, after QL3 support trades should be posted according to their environment which should be determined at enrolment, that way there are no surprises. Once on the ground (or boat), there should be further training specific to the environment such as Sea Environmental, Fieldcraft, Weapons Trg, etc. Further trades training can have similar points where the system has common things but should primarily emphasize training in the environment. The individual should then remain in that environment unless posted to a combined command level like Disneyland on the Rideau
As a purple trade I totally agree (me army uniform) We see the lack of knowledge best when it comes to JLC/JCNO or PLQ (whatever its called now). There has been debate over why purple trades should do JNCO(or Mod 6 i think it is now). When others who did their course on Air force or Navy bases don't! Its really hard when you have been on a non-field postings and suddenly your in an combat arms unit and on deployment on Combat ops you haven't got a clue as to where, when and what to do? When I was on Op Apollo (I was luck did a WATC JLC/JNCO) at least I had a small clue as what to do. But some of the others didn't. We had on support trade who joined us in theatre and had never done anything Army (ie section attacks or patrols) and with in 4 days in country was on Operations in the mountains. Some where along the line support trades need to be trained to the enviroment they are working in or stay with the element uniform you where. Funny if I go to the Navy I get sea enviromental training but not the airforce or army. There its learn as you go.
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I have been out now close to 10 years so I am not used to the term purple trades, I assume it means support trades. I hate to go back to our old ways but in my time although a RCEME Rad Tech
I took my basic with the PPCLI and learned section attack, patrolling, cam and concealment, plus
fired all light infantry weapons. Upon grad parade was granted Group 1 Light Infantry badge.
So after trades training when posted to field regt I had no problem understanding what the
grunts were doing as well could participate in a small but knowing roll in stand to and other functions
relating requirments in the field.
I don't like to reinvent the wheel but it worked for me for 31 years.
Regards OLD F of S
I took my basic with the PPCLI and learned section attack, patrolling, cam and concealment, plus
fired all light infantry weapons. Upon grad parade was granted Group 1 Light Infantry badge.
So after trades training when posted to field regt I had no problem understanding what the
grunts were doing as well could participate in a small but knowing roll in stand to and other functions
relating requirments in the field.
I don't like to reinvent the wheel but it worked for me for 31 years.
Regards OLD F of S
A
aesop081
Guest
MCG said:
I have SEEN one in the field in Petawawa somewhere around 1996
McG
Army.ca Legend
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Regt Trg had never heard of the course when I asked to have one ramped up for Construction Troop. As Kirsten pointed out, it is something we need to get better at. I personally think all the construction trades should do SQ regardless of uniform colour.
Bert
Sr. Member
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If referring to SQ applied to cross-elemental purple trades, you have to solve the whole problem
of training, standards, and re-thinking unification ideals.
SQ is nice to go through for land and weapon familiarization. Yet, SQ doesn't provide the tactical
section skills in which to use these weapons as what may be found in BIQ. Two questions
come to mind; To what combat standard would be set for the purple trades (or any trade/element) and
secondly how to maintain the skills and readiness levels? Its great to provide an SQ, but if the
member, perhaps air force, rarely ever experiences the weapons again then is the course the best use
of time. On a day to day basis, the air force in a general sense and as an example doesn't apply tactical
land training as the army would. Activities usually occur to support the elemental pointy ends. Maintaining
weapon familiarization, competency, in organized teams takes time and practice.
However, as described in earlier posts air force/navy purples may be deployed or attached with army units
and there is a difference in personal combat readiness. Cross-elemental deployments occur and the military
may have to close the readiness gaps with standards and continual training.
of training, standards, and re-thinking unification ideals.
SQ is nice to go through for land and weapon familiarization. Yet, SQ doesn't provide the tactical
section skills in which to use these weapons as what may be found in BIQ. Two questions
come to mind; To what combat standard would be set for the purple trades (or any trade/element) and
secondly how to maintain the skills and readiness levels? Its great to provide an SQ, but if the
member, perhaps air force, rarely ever experiences the weapons again then is the course the best use
of time. On a day to day basis, the air force in a general sense and as an example doesn't apply tactical
land training as the army would. Activities usually occur to support the elemental pointy ends. Maintaining
weapon familiarization, competency, in organized teams takes time and practice.
However, as described in earlier posts air force/navy purples may be deployed or attached with army units
and there is a difference in personal combat readiness. Cross-elemental deployments occur and the military
may have to close the readiness gaps with standards and continual training.
Someone posted the link to the Pubs site the other night, and I forgot I was on leave and started reading Battle Task Standards for CSS.
The ones that start with L are CSS specific, and you know what? There is one called ATTACK, at section and platoon level, and one called DEFEND. In the CSS BTS book.
Anti ambush drill is worth a read as well. Have fun!
Tom
The ones that start with L are CSS specific, and you know what? There is one called ATTACK, at section and platoon level, and one called DEFEND. In the CSS BTS book.
Anti ambush drill is worth a read as well. Have fun!
Tom
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Most Service Support, if not all (Logistics) are Purple. It really does not matter what color uniform (Blue, Green, Black) you are wearing the CF will send you to wherever they wish. You simply show up and soldier/air or Navy on. I know the trg for RMS is no different - we all go to our main school in Borden, ONT (CFSAL), take whatever training is given and go back to our units. The only thing I found different over the years is getting use to the different way the Chain of Comd acts and the discipline as each element (Navy, Air, Army) seem to have different "twists" in these areas. Hey - with the size and amount of us Purple People (probably half the CF is purple)- why not go our own way and form and LOGISTICS command - that would be a twist!
MPs - Really, how did you get Spec Pay? (I know the trg downtown your taking is looked at "your two year course") But what else or was it just this that pushed you guys over that special edge? Need to know the secret, maybe with us RMS guys taking on three MOCs we can get in on some sweet deal! Really would not mind knowing the hoops you guys had to get through.
MPs - Really, how did you get Spec Pay? (I know the trg downtown your taking is looked at "your two year course") But what else or was it just this that pushed you guys over that special edge? Need to know the secret, maybe with us RMS guys taking on three MOCs we can get in on some sweet deal! Really would not mind knowing the hoops you guys had to get through.
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