Public Affairs Officer ( PAO ) - merged
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Let me just say that I am not a PAO, but am involved in the field so, from what I have seen with friends and former coursemates, their initial postings range from Combat Camera to base or brigade PAOs. I have also seen some go to specific units like the Snowbirds on their first go. Where is someone more likely to be sent geographically? It all depends what spot is opening up and if you have the qualifications (on top of the basic requirements) to fill that job.
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Is anyone one, or know one? Just wondering how you find the role?
My background is PR and Broadcasting. I obtained a Broadcasting and Communications degree in my native UK, before going on to work in broadcast news as a TV reporter. I then formed a national PR business that did well, before packing up and emigrating to Canada. I now work as Director of Marketing with a technology company.
The career seems right up my street. I'm particularly interested in the Air Force as I come from a strong aviation background, and hold a PPL. Aviation has always been in my blood.
I'd appreciate any information anyone has on the job. It looks very involved, with lots of information management and a good chance to see lots of everything.
My background is PR and Broadcasting. I obtained a Broadcasting and Communications degree in my native UK, before going on to work in broadcast news as a TV reporter. I then formed a national PR business that did well, before packing up and emigrating to Canada. I now work as Director of Marketing with a technology company.
The career seems right up my street. I'm particularly interested in the Air Force as I come from a strong aviation background, and hold a PPL. Aviation has always been in my blood.
I'd appreciate any information anyone has on the job. It looks very involved, with lots of information management and a good chance to see lots of everything.
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Send a PM to a member here with the username Strike.
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Jeez recceguy! I WAS planning on participating. Didn't want to do it at work and then had to go for a run!
BB,
You're asking at a good time, since the trade lost more people this year then they forecast so I would recommend that you go into a recruiting centre tout-de-suite to get the whole story and see what your chances are once you're a full-fledged Canuck.
Let me answer the easy one first. Should you get accepted, you won't necessarily get to go into the Air Force. PA is what we call a purple trade, in that everyone, no matter what their uniform colour, goes through the same training. So that means that you would get whatever element they need to fill. You can, of course, put down a preference, but that doesn't guarantee you'll get it.
Your background sounds like exactly what the CF is looking for in a Direct Entry Officer. You've got the right degree and the right work experience. (Of course, I haven't seen your CV.
)
As for what we do, you name it and it's being done. There is such a variety of positions available within the trade, from policy to media liaison to marketing, but the most likely one you'll see, and what people are most familiar with, is the PAO acting as an adviser to a commander. That job can involve prepping a spokesperson, organizing news conferences, media monitoring, community outreach, etc, etc.
There is a big push right now to get PAOs up to speed with comparable abilities to image techs, not to do their jobs for them but so that they know how to direct them to get the product that's needed. There's also a huge push to get the trade up to speed wrt social networking - Twitter, FB, LinkedIn, etc.
I hope this helps you out a bit. PM me if you want any more info and I'll see what I can do.
Mods - Any chance we can move this to the Recruiting thread since it really is a tri-service topic?
BB,
You're asking at a good time, since the trade lost more people this year then they forecast so I would recommend that you go into a recruiting centre tout-de-suite to get the whole story and see what your chances are once you're a full-fledged Canuck.
Let me answer the easy one first. Should you get accepted, you won't necessarily get to go into the Air Force. PA is what we call a purple trade, in that everyone, no matter what their uniform colour, goes through the same training. So that means that you would get whatever element they need to fill. You can, of course, put down a preference, but that doesn't guarantee you'll get it.
Your background sounds like exactly what the CF is looking for in a Direct Entry Officer. You've got the right degree and the right work experience. (Of course, I haven't seen your CV.
)As for what we do, you name it and it's being done. There is such a variety of positions available within the trade, from policy to media liaison to marketing, but the most likely one you'll see, and what people are most familiar with, is the PAO acting as an adviser to a commander. That job can involve prepping a spokesperson, organizing news conferences, media monitoring, community outreach, etc, etc.
There is a big push right now to get PAOs up to speed with comparable abilities to image techs, not to do their jobs for them but so that they know how to direct them to get the product that's needed. There's also a huge push to get the trade up to speed wrt social networking - Twitter, FB, LinkedIn, etc.
I hope this helps you out a bit. PM me if you want any more info and I'll see what I can do.
Mods - Any chance we can move this to the Recruiting thread since it really is a tri-service topic?
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Strike sounds like the man on the inside with helpful info and tips.
Good, I hope more people do leave so that there is opportunity for others.
But let me give you the inside scoop from a guy (off the street) who went into the CFRC to ask about PA Officer.
It is closed (DEO).
And to quote the CF recruiter, "even in the best of times, this trade only has 2 or 3 DEO positions available annually".
If Strike has further insight into the matter, I am sure many would love to hear it.
I for one would like to know how difficult is it to "transfer" into PA Officer since I was told that is how most positions get staffed.
Good, I hope more people do leave so that there is opportunity for others.
But let me give you the inside scoop from a guy (off the street) who went into the CFRC to ask about PA Officer.
It is closed (DEO).
And to quote the CF recruiter, "even in the best of times, this trade only has 2 or 3 DEO positions available annually".
If Strike has further insight into the matter, I am sure many would love to hear it.
I for one would like to know how difficult is it to "transfer" into PA Officer since I was told that is how most positions get staffed.
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malamudagain said:
You've got to remember that the new numbers come out in April and PAO is one of the more competitive positions so any openings would have filled up early. If the open spots get filled with reservists then that means they would not have as many spots next year.
As for most spots being filled by people with previous service, that's a fallacy. It's about 1/2 and 1/2.
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Strike: I stand corrected Ma'am.
Listen, there is a difference between "competitive" and "next to impossible".
Med school is competitive. But with hundreds of openings across the province at different schools at least you stand a shot if you have decent grades.
With PAO, 2 or 3 spots to fill only with people applying across a country of 30 million plus trying to get it, well that's next to impossible.
I understand that PAO is a more esoteric trade in the Forces, but still, that' is a very low intake. However, that seems to be the recruitment theme for this year to the disappointment of many applicants.
Listen, there is a difference between "competitive" and "next to impossible".
Med school is competitive. But with hundreds of openings across the province at different schools at least you stand a shot if you have decent grades.
With PAO, 2 or 3 spots to fill only with people applying across a country of 30 million plus trying to get it, well that's next to impossible.
I understand that PAO is a more esoteric trade in the Forces, but still, that' is a very low intake. However, that seems to be the recruitment theme for this year to the disappointment of many applicants.
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malamudagain said:
That's right. The ones that think getting into this trade is next to impossible are probably the ones who aren't competitive.
Sorry to be so blunt, but saying it's next to impossible is a defeatist attitude to take. It also makes it sound like applying for
the trade is like winning the lottery, which couldn't be further from the truth.
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It’s easy to be blunt with someone from the outside looking in when you are already comfortably within as a PAO with the position essentially yours for as long as you wish (i.e. retirement).
I’m sure you will disagree with me (you already do) but my attitude has nothing to do with it. If applying for this trade is not like winning a lottery of sorts, show me otherwise. Where are the jobs? Where are the opportunities? You said in a previous post that the trade lost more people than expected. Great! Why are we sitting at 0 positions available nationally then? Same story last year. Possibly same story next year. I told you, word for word, what the official CF recruiter told me when I asked about the trade. Should I not rely on the info that he provided to me? That is, 2 or 3 spots available nationally “on a good year”. So if that’s what is available on a good year, I’m not sure how you can suggest that it is because of my defeatist attitude that my chances are so slim. I think I am competitive, but I am trying to get an accurate reading of what my chances are realistically. Furthermore, waiting years for a possible position is truly something else. MARS is another trade I have expressed interest in, and it is also at 0, and that trade has a much larger cadre than PAO and was apparently “in demand” not too long ago.
If you’d be willing, I’d be curious to hear how you entered the trade. How long did you wait? What were the circumstances at the time? I’ve been told that the best time to join the military is when the economy is doing well and the outlook is rosy. That’s not the environment we find ourselves in now, is it? Hasn’t been so for a couple of years now. I found it quite amusing to hear that the CF recruiter whom I have been working with for some time shared with me that from the time he applied to the time he was at boot camp was about 7 weeks. That’s how long some people wait to write their CFAT now-a-days. Quite a difference.
jwtg: I didn’t mean to say that 30 million people apply for PAO or any other trade for that matter, all I was saying is that there exists a large pool from which to draw on, and of those 30 million +, there will be a significant number from within that that will compete for spots in a small military with limited numbers.
I’m sure you will disagree with me (you already do) but my attitude has nothing to do with it. If applying for this trade is not like winning a lottery of sorts, show me otherwise. Where are the jobs? Where are the opportunities? You said in a previous post that the trade lost more people than expected. Great! Why are we sitting at 0 positions available nationally then? Same story last year. Possibly same story next year. I told you, word for word, what the official CF recruiter told me when I asked about the trade. Should I not rely on the info that he provided to me? That is, 2 or 3 spots available nationally “on a good year”. So if that’s what is available on a good year, I’m not sure how you can suggest that it is because of my defeatist attitude that my chances are so slim. I think I am competitive, but I am trying to get an accurate reading of what my chances are realistically. Furthermore, waiting years for a possible position is truly something else. MARS is another trade I have expressed interest in, and it is also at 0, and that trade has a much larger cadre than PAO and was apparently “in demand” not too long ago.
If you’d be willing, I’d be curious to hear how you entered the trade. How long did you wait? What were the circumstances at the time? I’ve been told that the best time to join the military is when the economy is doing well and the outlook is rosy. That’s not the environment we find ourselves in now, is it? Hasn’t been so for a couple of years now. I found it quite amusing to hear that the CF recruiter whom I have been working with for some time shared with me that from the time he applied to the time he was at boot camp was about 7 weeks. That’s how long some people wait to write their CFAT now-a-days. Quite a difference.
jwtg: I didn’t mean to say that 30 million people apply for PAO or any other trade for that matter, all I was saying is that there exists a large pool from which to draw on, and of those 30 million +, there will be a significant number from within that that will compete for spots in a small military with limited numbers.
Your disappointment at the number of positions available for the trades you desire is perfectly understandable. You want jobs but those jobs can't be yours for reasons beyond your control. It's unfortunate, but it's the way it is.
As a taxpayer, I'd prefer they don't start giving out jobs that don't exist.
I sympathize with your disappointment at your lack of opportunity, but I would be careful about pointing the finger at the CF. They don't recruit for the sake of applicants- they recruit for the sake of meeting the needs of the CF. If those needs are met in terms of MARS Officers and PAO, then it would be irresponsible to start recruiting for them.
As a taxpayer, I'd prefer they don't start giving out jobs that don't exist.
I sympathize with your disappointment at your lack of opportunity, but I would be careful about pointing the finger at the CF. They don't recruit for the sake of applicants- they recruit for the sake of meeting the needs of the CF. If those needs are met in terms of MARS Officers and PAO, then it would be irresponsible to start recruiting for them.
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MARS is currently not recruiting in part due to training backlogs. There are so many MARS officers waiting to get on MARS III that there's no point in enrolling more since they will be unable to be trained/employed in their trade.
As for PAO, you can dislike that there are few spots as much as you want. The CF will hire according to its needs. If it doesn't need them, it's not going to hire more. It will, when spots open, not hire based on a lottery, but rather, it will be very selective, hiring only the best of the applicants for a trade. The CF always has and will continue to fill spots with the people felt to be most qualified, particularly now when we have so few spots and so many applicants. This is just the fact of the matter, and not to be abrasive, but you might as well get used to it now.
As for PAO, you can dislike that there are few spots as much as you want. The CF will hire according to its needs. If it doesn't need them, it's not going to hire more. It will, when spots open, not hire based on a lottery, but rather, it will be very selective, hiring only the best of the applicants for a trade. The CF always has and will continue to fill spots with the people felt to be most qualified, particularly now when we have so few spots and so many applicants. This is just the fact of the matter, and not to be abrasive, but you might as well get used to it now.
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<rant>
I wonder sometimes why people feel entitled to a career in the Canadian Forces. They get pissy when there are not any available positions. It is quite annoying.
If, for example, Microsoft was not hiring and you had all the applicable skills, would you bitch and moan because they would not accept a resume? STOP BITCHING!
I feel for the mods having to wade through all the whining.
</rant>
I wonder sometimes why people feel entitled to a career in the Canadian Forces. They get pissy when there are not any available positions. It is quite annoying.
If, for example, Microsoft was not hiring and you had all the applicable skills, would you bitch and moan because they would not accept a resume? STOP BITCHING!
I feel for the mods having to wade through all the whining.
</rant>
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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We usually take the time to enjoy some cheese with those comments, so it isn't that rough on us Mods..........Really...........So I jest. ;D
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Strike suggested that my previous comment “makes it sound like applying for
the trade is like winning the lottery, which couldn't be further from the truth.”
I then challenged Strike to show me where these opportunities are since clearly I was not able to see any vacant positions for the past 2 years, and then I get labelled a whiner, pissy, etc.
Sigger, I’ll tell you what’s annoying. Having a guy like you employed in the Forces, either now or previously at one point (i.e. a guy who’s had his kick at the can), telling me that I feel entitled to career in the Forces and then dumping on me.
Jwtg, I agree, I’m not asking anyone to “create” a job that doesn’t exist and no one would do that for me even if I wanted it that way, so don’t worry about that happening. I’m just saying that I didn’t appreciate having someone who has been quite lucky in her career to be a pilot and now PAO (2 very difficult trades to enter) to suggest that is my attitude that is the reason for coming up to a brick wall for every trade I pursue, rather than the dismal employment conditions at the CF.
BritishBuzzard, you have been silent, but if you were serious about your desire, you’d be smart to return to the UK and join British Forces which is a larger organization with hopefully more opportunities. As you can see, the situation here is pretty dismal for people with a hope and desire to serve their country in a trade that matches their education, qualifications and interests.
the trade is like winning the lottery, which couldn't be further from the truth.”
I then challenged Strike to show me where these opportunities are since clearly I was not able to see any vacant positions for the past 2 years, and then I get labelled a whiner, pissy, etc.
Sigger, I’ll tell you what’s annoying. Having a guy like you employed in the Forces, either now or previously at one point (i.e. a guy who’s had his kick at the can), telling me that I feel entitled to career in the Forces and then dumping on me.
Jwtg, I agree, I’m not asking anyone to “create” a job that doesn’t exist and no one would do that for me even if I wanted it that way, so don’t worry about that happening. I’m just saying that I didn’t appreciate having someone who has been quite lucky in her career to be a pilot and now PAO (2 very difficult trades to enter) to suggest that is my attitude that is the reason for coming up to a brick wall for every trade I pursue, rather than the dismal employment conditions at the CF.
BritishBuzzard, you have been silent, but if you were serious about your desire, you’d be smart to return to the UK and join British Forces which is a larger organization with hopefully more opportunities. As you can see, the situation here is pretty dismal for people with a hope and desire to serve their country in a trade that matches their education, qualifications and interests.
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malamudagain said:
I've been working with a Res PAO that just got picked up for CT. He was telling me that for two openings for Captains to CT from Res to Reg this year, there were over 30 applicants. So, it's still certainly competitive.
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malamudagain said:
I did not say that you were a whiner or pissy. I said that you were taking a defeatist attitude by comparing it to a lottery.
The opportunities I mentioned in my first post are in reference to the rumblings being passed around in the branch. The trade is going through a flux right now and, just because you aren't seeing the results immediately at the CFRC does not mean they aren't there.
Several people here have brought up some very valid points but you keep going back to how it's impossible to get into the trade. It is NOT impossible, it's very difficult.
As for saying that I am lucky to have gotten in as a pilot and then as a PAO, I am insulted. I worked VERY hard to achieve both, and those efforts paid off. I was not given a free pass. I stayed up late at night studying, failed tests, passed rewrites, studied some more, and have given up many things to get where I am today. None of it had anything to do with luck.
There was no lottery. My file was evaluated against others and was able to make it high enough up on the pile that I was chosen for my trades. NO LOTTERY!
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