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Saw this on PBS last night. Good story. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/warriors/
Private Security for all you wannabees-site
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I'd be interested in hearing the thoughts of the guys in Iraq on the boards thoughts.
Lightfighter had a similar thread on this. -I'd take what Malcom (Abu Buckwheat) says to the bank - he's written book and does contracting tenders and Int stuff for contracting issues
From my understanding the 20k number spring from the KBR drivers, and cilivian contracted EOD teams and many others not specifically Security Contract.
Lightfighter had a similar thread on this. -I'd take what Malcom (Abu Buckwheat) says to the bank - he's written book and does contracting tenders and Int stuff for contracting issues
From my understanding the 20k number spring from the KBR drivers, and cilivian contracted EOD teams and many others not specifically Security Contract.
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chopper
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Yeah i saw that also, but to tell ya the truth, i could never take a bullet protecting some shameful general electric employee.
Unless your really interested for a 700 dollar a day job to work for some of these private firms.
Unless your really interested for a 700 dollar a day job to work for some of these private firms.
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some pretty interesting stuff on there, but nothing overly shocking. the US troops here really dont like contractors, they know we are making a hell of a lot of money and they are pissed that they dont, frankly i dont blame them, but im happy to be doing what i do.
i know for myself though the main reason im over here is not for the money, im here to do what i could never do in the canadian army. i have seen more excitment and action here in 6 months than i saw in 6 years in the CF. dont get me wrong, the money is a great part of it, but it is not the reason i came here.
i know for myself though the main reason im over here is not for the money, im here to do what i could never do in the canadian army. i have seen more excitment and action here in 6 months than i saw in 6 years in the CF. dont get me wrong, the money is a great part of it, but it is not the reason i came here.
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pappy
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yeah I'd have to agree, not many Contractors are purely motivated by the all mighty $$$. You gotta remember folks be trying to kill ya...
If anyone wanted "easy money" there is the drug trade, growing BC Bud, cooking Meth, etc...
Just a wild thought..... I'm a former Marine so bare with my slow brain processes.... why don't the Good ole boys signing the checks in Washington, just say screw the private contractor crap and give those rates of pay to our combat troops.... Seems so simple, I would imigine the enlistment rates would jump by leaps and bounds...
The outstanding medical treatment the US Military provides with the cash the private Contractors get and people would be queing up around the block.
Granted those rates of pay would be only for personnel in the "active" areas. Not some backwater hardship duty station like K-bay in the Hawaiian Islands....
Or oh yeah, duh how about just bringing back the DRAFT and getting ALL the people the military could ever need and want.... But in any case draft or not our service men aren't getting paid like they should.
I got nothing againest private Contractors, but if the Goverment is going to spend the cash it shouldn't it go to the troops first? But the pay differences between the Contractors and military is causing some problems... But I don't think as much as the media boys would like us to think...
Private Contractors have been around for ages, let's use the old stand by term - Mercenary, say it after me.... "Mer...cen..ary" I knew you could...
I'm not saying that like Merc is a bad word...
As far as "taking a GSW for GE" well isn't the idea making the Tango take the GSW? opps looking down at the nasty scare on my arm, I guess "turds-happend"
guess my bottom line would be give the cash to military on the ground first, if that don't do enough then hire out to the best money can buy...
If anyone wanted "easy money" there is the drug trade, growing BC Bud, cooking Meth, etc...
Just a wild thought..... I'm a former Marine so bare with my slow brain processes.... why don't the Good ole boys signing the checks in Washington, just say screw the private contractor crap and give those rates of pay to our combat troops.... Seems so simple, I would imigine the enlistment rates would jump by leaps and bounds...
The outstanding medical treatment the US Military provides with the cash the private Contractors get and people would be queing up around the block.
Granted those rates of pay would be only for personnel in the "active" areas. Not some backwater hardship duty station like K-bay in the Hawaiian Islands....
Or oh yeah, duh how about just bringing back the DRAFT and getting ALL the people the military could ever need and want.... But in any case draft or not our service men aren't getting paid like they should.
I got nothing againest private Contractors, but if the Goverment is going to spend the cash it shouldn't it go to the troops first? But the pay differences between the Contractors and military is causing some problems... But I don't think as much as the media boys would like us to think...
Private Contractors have been around for ages, let's use the old stand by term - Mercenary, say it after me.... "Mer...cen..ary" I knew you could...
I'm not saying that like Merc is a bad word...
As far as "taking a GSW for GE" well isn't the idea making the Tango take the GSW? opps looking down at the nasty scare on my arm, I guess "turds-happend"
guess my bottom line would be give the cash to military on the ground first, if that don't do enough then hire out to the best money can buy...
First of all, PSDs are not mercenaries. If we are mercenaries then so is the guy in a Brinks armoured car. We do not engage in offensive operations.
Increasing pay for US soldiers wouldn't solve the problem. The majority of PSDs are working for NGOs and private firms, not directly for the US government. There are not enough trained US troops to perform PSD and all of the contracted logistics anyways.
I don't think the draft is the answer. There are guys here who SIGNED UP and they are not enjoying themselves.
Contractors are filling a role that the government cannot fill with it's own human resources.
Edit: I would however like to see US troops paid more. Some LCpls told me they only made $1800-2000 USD per month. That's not nearly enough for risking your life in Iraq for a year on end.
Increasing pay for US soldiers wouldn't solve the problem. The majority of PSDs are working for NGOs and private firms, not directly for the US government. There are not enough trained US troops to perform PSD and all of the contracted logistics anyways.
I don't think the draft is the answer. There are guys here who SIGNED UP and they are not enjoying themselves.
Contractors are filling a role that the government cannot fill with it's own human resources.
Edit: I would however like to see US troops paid more. Some LCpls told me they only made $1800-2000 USD per month. That's not nearly enough for risking your life in Iraq for a year on end.
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pappy
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Big Red. that's my point, the US doesn't have enough troops, over the years the Liberals have reduced the size of our military to the point where we have to outsource the "non-combat" roles, just what your getting paid to do. This is a war, there should be a draft, whether we like it or not, Our (the US) military SHOULD have grow so large after 9/11 that finding troops to preform ALL in theather roles wasn't a issue. Command and control would be better. I wasn't trying to insult you calling personal contractors Mercs, so no need to be so sensitive. The Liberals have made that a non-PC word over the years. Only 1 in 7 or even less US military personnel in Vietnam saw open combat. I have no problems with Contractors, been there done that in years past, but I just think if we (the US) is going to win, we HAVE to spead the cost over the ENTIRE society, people here need to know freedom isn't free and the draft, and huge wide scale call ups would do just that. If we keep trying to win this war on the cheep we'll lose. Extending our military so thin is f-ing stupid, repeated deployments by our troops is draining them. We need to follow WW2 tatcis, drafts, and no one goes home till its over....
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Its manditory in Isreal is it not? Breed into their way of life that everyone does a stint in the military.
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pappy
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yes, in Israel unless your a member of the small population of super Orthdox Jews, all men serve 2-4 years and so many months each year till they are in thier 50's and some over that. This also if my memory holds, true for US-Isreali dual citzenships.
I think this would be good for the US, all the available manpower we could rebuild roads, bridges, inner city slums, fight fires, guard our borders, fight the drug trade, etc, etc and still have enough men to respond to any military threat outside the US.
I think this would be good for the US, all the available manpower we could rebuild roads, bridges, inner city slums, fight fires, guard our borders, fight the drug trade, etc, etc and still have enough men to respond to any military threat outside the US.
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Having done a PSD course and I think Big Red will agree with me here - is that there needs to be a fair amount of necessary training for mil pers to operate as a Security Team member - I know on my course it took a lot of reverse programing on our parts to get out of the close with and destroy the enemy phase - imagine the PSD dismounting an escort vehicle to go lay a beating on the Enemy..
99% of all of the good contract PSD jobs are ex mil and more specifically ex .soc sorts. I for one am happy for them making $ overseas doing a job that no one else wanted - good on them, their gov't pension is not getting them jack and shit so I applaude them.
99% of all of the good contract PSD jobs are ex mil and more specifically ex .soc sorts. I for one am happy for them making $ overseas doing a job that no one else wanted - good on them, their gov't pension is not getting them jack and shit so I applaude them.
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Big_C
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$400 to $1000 American a day?!!! Where do I sign up?!?!
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classic Infanteer.
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the one thing most of the people who say we should get rid of contractors over look is the fact that no one has enough troops to replace them. if the PSD crews alone pulled out the US would need to field another division of combat troops, and where are they gonna find those numbers in a military that is already struggling to keep its numbers ?
i will say this much, the amount the troops are making over here is a joke ! i have been told by a few soldiers how much they make and i am shocked, for the amount of crap they deal with and hours they work in this environment they should be gettting a hell of a lot more, i think that is something we can all agree on.
in regards to bringing back the draft.... bad idea ! the point was already made that the guys here who volunteered hate it, think of a bunch of hippies over here who are against it from the start. i think with this the quality of troops would only go way down, there would be so many downsides i dont have time to write even half of them.
i will say this much, the amount the troops are making over here is a joke ! i have been told by a few soldiers how much they make and i am shocked, for the amount of crap they deal with and hours they work in this environment they should be gettting a hell of a lot more, i think that is something we can all agree on.
in regards to bringing back the draft.... bad idea ! the point was already made that the guys here who volunteered hate it, think of a bunch of hippies over here who are against it from the start. i think with this the quality of troops would only go way down, there would be so many downsides i dont have time to write even half of them.
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pappy said:
That statement sounds oddly familiar
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pappy
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Well the draft was in effect for quite a long time and it worked fine, very few "want" to serve in the military, the point is not "wanting to join" but it's your duty, yeah I know these days duty and honor have little meaning to some of our youth. A good friend of mine joined the Corps, rather then wait to get drafted, sure with his attitude he would have joined up draft or not. But as a young PFC hitting the beach in Da Nang in 1965 his gross (not net...) pay was around $60USD, yeah six - zero.... just over ten years later when I join the Corps PFC pay was maybe $400/month.... the point I was attempting to make in my post above was IF the pay rates for todays military was equal to what Private Contractors make, granted the fresh boot just outta boot camp can't be expected to be paid the same as some Force Recon Staff Sargent.... But if the pay was better, AND in my opinion a greater percentage of Americans served (via the Draft and volunteers) morale would increase. Every one wants to enjoy the freedoms we have in most western countries, its time they pay for it with a little sweat and blood when needed.
Yes, would the draft bring in a bunch of less then wonderful group of people, well there are all sorts of crap jobs to give the ones bucking the system. Digging squat-trenches, burning honey-buckets, etc. Tough doo-doo if you don't like the job you get assigned....
Make the pay worth the effort and add some extra incentives.... no military service = no free college grants and student loans, no welfare, no drivers License.... maybe even no citizenship... (oh that one will start the nasty replies flooding in) yes maybe the citizenship crack was a bit much...
Why give people who aren't willing to defend this country the privileges this country has to give?
Tough love? yeah...
Granted we would of course make considersations for TRUE CO's and the unfit / too stupid / handicapped, etc .....
Not sure you've looked around the streets of the US, but most of these dirtbag youth could use a little discipline and hard work.
Basic Enlisted Pay Rates Effective January 2005
2005 US Military Pay scale:
http://www.military.com/Resources/ResourcesContent/0,13964,49020,00.HTML
even just doubling those rates and think of the people would would be willing to join...
Bare with me while I blabber on endlessly................. I'm just getting warmed up......
We might ask how accurate is the current picture of military disarray.
First, the Marines have suffered disproportionate fatalities in the war in Iraq. They are about 30 percent of all combat deaths, yet make up only 11 percent of current American forces. But in May the Marines slightly exceeded their recruitment goal. The Air Force and Navy likewise met 100 percent of their requirements. The Army traditionally has had the hardest time meeting its targets, given the reputation â †warranted or not â †that the other branches offer more specialized training and skills that will better enhance civilian careers without the same level of risk as ground combat. PersPersonallyhink it's the carp Army dress uniforms....
Second, the year is only half over, it's sumer who the heck wants to go to boot camp with all the sweeties on the beach in thongs? The Army may well rebound and meet its full 2005 quota, as nearly all branches of the active services (the Army and Air National Guard were exceptions) did in 2004. Much depends on whether the economy continues to improve and thus competes for high-school graduates, and whether the Iraqi military can take over its envisioned preponderant military role, keeping the insurgency out of the daily headlines.
Third, on demographic grounds, our current troop mobilizations are hardly a drain on the U.S. population base. In a country of about 300 million residents, we have about 1.4 million troops deployed worldwide (less then 1/2 of one percent of current US population in the military if my wine-math is correct). Yet in 1974, during the first full year of the all-volunteer army, the United States deployed 1.9 million soldiers, drawing on a population of more than 210 million. In other words, when the population was just 70 percent of our current size, the armed forces sustained troop levels 1.3 times larger than our present military. But recyreplacing same service men back and forth to Iraq and AfgaAfghanistanr and over on extended deployments is a drain on them in my opinion. Don't you think we could spare to draft the top 1 percent of the men and women in America and triptripleth the current .5% of volunteers) the size of our military with little effect?
Critics harp on the expenses of the War on Terror and suggest that we are unable to sustain such a drain. Yet in the first full year of the volunteer army, military expenditures accounted for 58 percent of discretionary spending, or about 5.5 percent of the gross domestic product. In 2003, when we invaded Iraq with 200,000 troops and conducted reconstruction efforts in Afghanistan, we allotted only 49 percent of discretionary spending to defense, some 3.7 percent of GDP â †itself a moderate rise from 1999â “2000, when defense expenditure had descended to the historical low of about 3 percent of GDP. This suggests the armed forces were inadequate to meet the security profile of the United States well before September 11. Thank you very much Mr. & Mrs. Clinton...
If it turns out that we need more troops in the military, based on historical precedents and current resources, we surely have the population and national wealth to field larger forces than we presently deploy, and to pay them more than we do now.
Crapp when I start using phrases like "3 percent of GDP" I know I had too much wine with dinner and I'm going to be boring the hell out of you all... or maybe its too much whine....
Yes, would the draft bring in a bunch of less then wonderful group of people, well there are all sorts of crap jobs to give the ones bucking the system. Digging squat-trenches, burning honey-buckets, etc. Tough doo-doo if you don't like the job you get assigned....
Make the pay worth the effort and add some extra incentives.... no military service = no free college grants and student loans, no welfare, no drivers License.... maybe even no citizenship... (oh that one will start the nasty replies flooding in) yes maybe the citizenship crack was a bit much...
Why give people who aren't willing to defend this country the privileges this country has to give?
Tough love? yeah...
Granted we would of course make considersations for TRUE CO's and the unfit / too stupid / handicapped, etc .....
Not sure you've looked around the streets of the US, but most of these dirtbag youth could use a little discipline and hard work.
Basic Enlisted Pay Rates Effective January 2005
2005 US Military Pay scale:
http://www.military.com/Resources/ResourcesContent/0,13964,49020,00.HTML
even just doubling those rates and think of the people would would be willing to join...
Bare with me while I blabber on endlessly................. I'm just getting warmed up......
We might ask how accurate is the current picture of military disarray.
First, the Marines have suffered disproportionate fatalities in the war in Iraq. They are about 30 percent of all combat deaths, yet make up only 11 percent of current American forces. But in May the Marines slightly exceeded their recruitment goal. The Air Force and Navy likewise met 100 percent of their requirements. The Army traditionally has had the hardest time meeting its targets, given the reputation â †warranted or not â †that the other branches offer more specialized training and skills that will better enhance civilian careers without the same level of risk as ground combat. PersPersonallyhink it's the carp Army dress uniforms....
Second, the year is only half over, it's sumer who the heck wants to go to boot camp with all the sweeties on the beach in thongs? The Army may well rebound and meet its full 2005 quota, as nearly all branches of the active services (the Army and Air National Guard were exceptions) did in 2004. Much depends on whether the economy continues to improve and thus competes for high-school graduates, and whether the Iraqi military can take over its envisioned preponderant military role, keeping the insurgency out of the daily headlines.
Third, on demographic grounds, our current troop mobilizations are hardly a drain on the U.S. population base. In a country of about 300 million residents, we have about 1.4 million troops deployed worldwide (less then 1/2 of one percent of current US population in the military if my wine-math is correct). Yet in 1974, during the first full year of the all-volunteer army, the United States deployed 1.9 million soldiers, drawing on a population of more than 210 million. In other words, when the population was just 70 percent of our current size, the armed forces sustained troop levels 1.3 times larger than our present military. But recyreplacing same service men back and forth to Iraq and AfgaAfghanistanr and over on extended deployments is a drain on them in my opinion. Don't you think we could spare to draft the top 1 percent of the men and women in America and triptripleth the current .5% of volunteers) the size of our military with little effect?
Critics harp on the expenses of the War on Terror and suggest that we are unable to sustain such a drain. Yet in the first full year of the volunteer army, military expenditures accounted for 58 percent of discretionary spending, or about 5.5 percent of the gross domestic product. In 2003, when we invaded Iraq with 200,000 troops and conducted reconstruction efforts in Afghanistan, we allotted only 49 percent of discretionary spending to defense, some 3.7 percent of GDP â †itself a moderate rise from 1999â “2000, when defense expenditure had descended to the historical low of about 3 percent of GDP. This suggests the armed forces were inadequate to meet the security profile of the United States well before September 11. Thank you very much Mr. & Mrs. Clinton...
If it turns out that we need more troops in the military, based on historical precedents and current resources, we surely have the population and national wealth to field larger forces than we presently deploy, and to pay them more than we do now.
Crapp when I start using phrases like "3 percent of GDP" I know I had too much wine with dinner and I'm going to be boring the hell out of you all... or maybe its too much whine....
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pappy
Guest
dang the spelling checker did a number on my last post... or was it me?
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ditto
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