Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]

[Harrier101]

These guys don't deserve the brush you've painted them with, and I find it sort of silly that a civilian like yourself would be so quick to decide who would make a good soldier

I Painted them? Er.....no. They painted themselves, I am merely pointing out that they should not be hired by the Military because they have made the poor choice of using narcotics. Infact, as has been mentioned many times on this thread, and in keeping with the author's original post, If you use drugs, the Military will not hire you.

Further to that, In my opinion, you should not be hired by the military if you have had a PAST history of drug abuse. Does not matter how long ago. It reflects on a poor decision making process on your part. A decision making process that is used to make important decisions on a daily basis as a member of the Armed Forces. Should these people be given a second chance. I dunno. Do you get a second chance in combat?

 

[Fusaki]

Have you ever failed a high school course? Maybe that would be a good reason not to hire you on the gounds you have bad work habits. Have you ever had relationship problems? Maybe you shouldn't be hired because you have shown you can't work with people. Do you watch too much TV? The army doesn't want couch potatoes. Do you really think that you havn't done anything the military might not agree with? The army doesn't want guys who can't admit they've made mistakes. Its all about maturity and the stupid things people do in high school are not always a reflection of who they are today.

Alot of guys join to put the past behind them. I know that for a fact. They come from rough neighbourhoods or screwed up families and they want to live in a more positive environment. Alot of people just want to have something they can be proud of, and to do that they realize the need to get out of the rut they were once in.

 

[kastanis]

To say that any person who has tried using illicit substances should not ever be able to be employed by the Candian Forces is rather ludicrous, as that would disqualify over 50% of the young people growing up today, many of which have the potential to become very useful and productive members of the CF.  Would such an opinion extend itself to argue that no one who has ever tried drugs should be able to be a physician, lawyer, engineer, or police officer?  I propose that we, as a country, would be highly lacking in skilled professionals were we to adopt such a policy.

I believe the person who orignally started this post, Trebor, was looking for experience from people who had had history of prior drug use who have completed or are completing the recruitment process.  I am one of the people who have such a history and am in the application process.  I have had my DEO interview, and the Lt(N) and I discussed my prior drug use, which was not excessive and did not include hallucinogens or such psychosis-inducing drugs as PCP, but nevertheless spanned a number of years.  I was HONEST with her, which is of utmost importance.  I made it clear that there is no current use of illicit substances, nor will there be any in the future provided that I am enrolled in the CF.  She understood that EVERYONE makes poor decisions, and just wanted to make the CF policy on substance abuse clear to me.  I concurred that a career in the CF and the continued abuse of substances are mutually exclusive.  End of story.  At the end of the interview, she told me that I was a competitive candidate for AERE and CELE, and slightly less so for PLT, owing to the fact that I have been employed as an engineer, but have never flown an airplane.  She also said that she would be submitting my file to the October DEO selection board.

I hope that helps those who were curious.

Eric

 

[badapple]

Have you ever failed a high school course? Maybe that would be a good reason not to hire you on the gounds you have bad work habits. Have you ever had relationship problems? Maybe you shouldn't be hired because you have shown you can't work with people. Do you watch too much TV? The army doesn't want couch potatoes. Do you really think that you havn't done anything the military might not agree with? The army doesn't want guys who can't admit they've made mistakes. Its all about maturity and the stupid things people do in high school are not always a reflection of who they are today.

Alot of guys join to put the past behind them. I know that for a fact. They come from rough neighbourhoods or screwed up families and they want to live in a more positive environment. Alot of people just want to have something they can be proud of, and to do that they realize the need to get out of the rut they were once in.

Very well put,

there are all kinds of poor decisions,

Many would say that bill clinton was a great president, and many still do according to his popularity, and he's made ALL kinds of decisions and lied about many of them, (" I did not have sexual relations with Ms. Lewinski" and "I did not inhale") but many would say he's the JFK of the current generation and that he did an outstanding job in his highly stressfull roll.

i know that was a bit off topic, but hey, had to throw in the comment.

 

[trebor8301]

Thank you Eric thats exactly what i was hoping for, i intend to be honest with the interviewer and hopefully a productive menber one day. As long as you dont intend to such anything it was okay for you right, cause i quit all the bad stuff about 3-4 years ago and the pot last year. i hate drugs now and wished i never wasted my  teen years but i was wondering as it said lots of kids now a day unforntuatly touch drugs .

If any one else has a  similiar situation  please let me know how it went.!! Thanks to all!

 

[Ryan_Bohm]

When  it comes down to the selection boards were 2 applicants are the same with merit and has used drugs etc then I am sure they will pick clean one.

 

[badapple]

maybe so but this isn't what we're discussing

and very seldom would there be two people with exactly the same merits,,

 

[Jarnhamar]

On the other side of the fence, while the Canadian Forces DOES let people in who've previously  taken drugs people shouldn't use that as an excuse TO experiment with them or to continue doing them (smoking pot) up until a magic cut off day (say 6 months before your testing).

 

[nbk]

Im going to post a link to a resource I frequently use to end arguments about the effects of drugs, both the real negative attributes, and the popular myths.

(...)

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/psychoactives.shtml

That is a very good link to a very unbiased source, which you can get a lot of useful information from.

Its really astounding to see how ignorant so many people are, in this day and age, towards certian currently illegal drugs.

It reminds me of some sort of which hunt which would have taken place in the days of yore. Maybe they did kill a few witches who really were casting spells and whatnot, but the majority of the people killed were in fact not whiches at all.

The DND policies may get a few people who for whatever reason wanted to join the forces, even with a drug addiction, which they knew would only screw up their job in the end, but the vast majority of people who get axed will be casual users who simply use drugs to enjoy and enhance their lives.

It is current DND policy however, and it must be followed no matter how unjust it is. One can only hope that the DND will evolve to a point where they get with the times and get some more progressive policies with respect to drugs.

To sum up: Drugs are not bad. People who use drugs are not bad. The very very small minority of bad people who do drugs are bad people. Non addictive drugs can be used to enhance the lives of people who choose to use these powerful substances with the respect that they deserve. Guns can be misued by bad people as well, should guns be outlawed in the CF?

Regardless of these facts the DND has a very twisted and backwards policy of condemning good, decent and brave people who choose to experience all that life has to offer. So until the DND changes its abhorrant and senseless policies do not do drugs while working for the DND. They are your employer so they can choose what they will allow their employees to do. If your employer wants you to wear nothing but a pink thong you either do what they want or you loose your job. They do not have to employ you, and you can loose your job for whatever retarded reason they want to give.

Do drugs and enjoy life if you choose, but realize that this must end if you choose to be in the CF. If you don't want it like that get another job.

 

[Jarnhamar]

To sum up: Drugs are not bad. People who use drugs are not bad. The very very small minority of bad people who do drugs are bad people. Non addictive drugs can be used to enhance the lives of people who choose to use these powerful substances with the respect that they deserve. Guns can be misued by bad people as well, should guns be outlawed in the CF?

Wow.  
I might get a caution for language here but are you fucking retarded?    thats the stupidest thing i ever heard. My brother is 20 years old and screwed for the rest of his life and will likely never ever get a decent job because of "harmless steroids".

It's not even worth trying to point out how stupid this statement is because if someone is dumb enough to believe it i don't think God himself could change their mind.  

Don't start with that shit reference to guns being bad.   Firearms are a tool that the Canadian Forces uses to perform their duties and protect it's members in carrying out those duties. It's such a stupid comparrison I still wonder if your joking.
Do you want to put your life in the hands of a soldier (Police officer/Fireman/doctor) whos high on drugs?   Nooooo their not bad at all. Have fun and enjoy the finer parts of life. Non-addictive drugs are great. You can quit them anytime you want.

As for your opinions about how backwards the CF policies are, if you ever consider joining the CF remember about all our stupid rules and policies and run away from the recruiting office as fast as you can.
Fuck serving your country when you can spend every day getting high.

You make it sound like you can lead a happy fullfilling life with drugs OR you can join the CF and you know, never have fun again. Because drugs are fun.
Your RTFO

 

[Scott]

Regardless of these facts the DND has a very twisted and backwards policy of condemning good, decent and brave people who choose to experience all that life has to offer. So until the DND changes its abhorrant and senseless policies do not do drugs while working for the DND. They are your employer so they can choose what they will allow their employees to do. If your employer wants you to wear nothing but a pink thong you either do what they want or you loose your job. They do not have to employ you, and you can loose your job for whatever retarded reason they want to give.

I wasn't going to weigh in but I re-read the thread and some other posts of yours nbk and I just have to get this out:

You state that you are in the process of applying to the CF, just waiting for the call, eh? Well if you consider the policies that everyone must follow "abhorrant and senseless" then why would you join? You applied 043 (Combat Engineer) Do you think the CF should change those "abhorrant and senseless" policies and then turn you loose to smoke a bowl and go play with mines? I don't think you'd have too many followers.

In another topic about drugs, you stated that you'd quit to join the CF because of the policies, I commend you for that, at least you'll tow the line unlike some who'd just hide it and try to get away with it. You also said that you'd really cut back on your use of drugs "over the last few years" My question then, and still is, how many f-ing years have you been doing drugs? It's curiosity, not a snipe.

Cheers

 

[badapple]

you just twisted everything he said, he wasn't advocating use while serving and foresure not use while on duty.

he post merely backs up my questions in previous post about; what happens when marijauna is legalized? the questions about morality, safety and so WILL HAVE to be answered at that point, because right now the regs foundation is that thier illegal, thus they are not to be used.  But society's attitude about marijuana is becoming more that it is acceptable to do recreationally.  I'll admit, i smoke pot.  But im responsible about it, i know(just like people who drink, like many in the NCO mess at this very moment) that you can do something recreationally on my spare time like, smoke pot, or consume alcohol, and be at work in the morning with a clear head.

I would argue that a pot smoker will have a clearer head than one who consumes alcohol, i know when i smoke pot, that the next day there is no hangover whatsoever, but after a night out drinking with the boys, i just want to stay in bed.

Also, i would prefer working with a person addicted to marijuana, over one addicted to alcohol anyday.

----english is my second language, i know there is some gramatical errors in my post

 

[Armymedic]

WTF? NBK, your just too much...

It is current DND policy however, and it must be followed no matter how unjust it is. One can only hope that the DND will evolve to a point where they get with the times and get some more progressive policies with respect to drugs.

Regardless of these facts the DND has a very twisted and backwards policy of condemning good, decent and brave people who choose to experience all that life has to offer. So until the DND changes its abhorrant and senseless policies do not do drugs while working for the DND.

I am not sure whom you are referring to that has been condemned by the DND drug policy. Maybe you can enlighten me about these persons.

I do know of Ptes and Cpls who have been caught using drugs, and with the exception of the two reservists caught smoking up in Bosnia, where administratively handled, given the opportunity to undergo counselling and carry on with their military career. One of those caught a few yrs back is was just promoted to Sgt and was award a CO commendation for being the best MCpl in his unit...So where is this condemnation of which you speak....

Read this and be informend: http://www.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/019-21_e.asp

Its not all bad, you are indeed correct that if you can't follow your employeer's rules and regs, you will be quickly fired/layed off/punted from your means of income....But I really do hope with that attitude toward the Queen's regulations and Administrative Orders, you choose not to become a mbr of my Canadian Forces.

Badapple:
First, the gov't is discussing DECRIMINALIZING pot, not legalizing it.

Also, i would prefer working with a person addicted to marijuana, over one addicted to alcohol anyday.

I choose NOT to work with either...

CFAO 19-31 Misuse of Alcohol:

Misuse of alcohol shall be deemed to have occurred when a member's use
of alcohol:
     a.    interferes with the performance of duty including regular
          attendance at the place of duty;

     b.    creates an administrative burden by causing domestic or other
          problems;

     c.    interferes with satisfactory social or economic functioning;

     d.    interferes with health; or

     e.    otherwise reflects discredit upon the CF.

That being said...come into work high, come into work hung over, I can deal with you adminstratively.

 

[Scott]

Armymedic, you've beat me to the punch for most of my post!! *delete*

he post merely backs up my questions in previous post about; what happens when marijuana is legalized? the questions about morality, safety and so WILL HAVE to be answered at that point, because right now the regs foundation is that their illegal, thus they are not to be used.  But society's attitude about marijuana is becoming more that it is acceptable to do recreationally.  I'll admit, i smoke pot.  But im I'msponsible about it, i know(just like people who drink, like many in the NCO mess at this very moment) that you can do something recreationally on my spare time like, smoke pot, or consume alcohol, and be at work in the morning with a clear head.

I would argue that a pot smoker will have a clearer head than one who consumes alcohol, i know when i smoke pot, that the next day there is no hangover whatsoever, but after a night out drinking with the boys, i just want to stay in bed.

Also, i would prefer working with a person addicted to marijuana, over one addicted to alcohol anyday.

It shouldn't matter if it is legalized. The CF has a policy against it, I don't think it is more because it is illegal, but because of drugs effects. Argue the reasons for it all damn day if you want, if they have a policy against it then that is it, there's not a thing anyone here can do about it right now. You want to change it? Go run for the Liberals, get into office, get the MND's post, then tell the troopies to spark up, good luck!

On a side note: I am curious to hear the input from some of the more senior members on this forum as to what they think will happen should pot be legalized. Do you see the policies changing? In what way? May it be treated the same as booze?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Regardless of these facts the DND has a very twisted and backwards policy of condemning good, decent and brave people who choose to experience all that life has to offer. So until the DND changes its abhorrant and senseless policies do not do drugs while working for the DND.

Got turned down did ya?

 

[Ryan_Bohm]

You said you were responsible about doing drugs, I beg to differ.  You are commiting a Criminal Code offence, I do not think thats a responsible act.  I am only going St, Jean Sept 28, but members of the CF represent our country. I dont want to be associated with someone who breaks the law nor commits a criminal offence. I dont want to trust someone with my life who is a drug user. "Weed" does effect your mind.  THC gets stored in your fatty tissue for example and you quite smoking....down the road this stuff gets released into your system. It also slows down your mental functioning. I could continue on with this because I am a police foundations grad and had many lectures on the topic of drugs.
Ryan.

 

[Armymedic]

Regardless of these facts the DND has a very twisted and backwards policy of condemning good, decent and brave people who choose to experience all that life has to offer. So until the DND changes its abhorrant and senseless policies do not do drugs while working for the DND.

Gee nbk, maybe this SEAL commander, after all he's done, wanted to experience more of what life had to offer?
I wonder in this case in the US Navy just "condemning" this "good, decent and brave" sailor with their "very twisted and backwards policy"?  

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20040822-9999-1m22seal.html

The Navy has charged a SEAL officer with using cocaine and Ecstasy and distributing ketamine while in Thailand â “ one of eight commandos being investigated for alleged drug use.

Lt. Scott C. Hobbs, who is based at the Naval Amphibious Base in Coronado, is accused of using drugs last May while in Pattaya, Thailand, on a training exercise, according to Navy charges filed last month but just released.

Additionally, Hobbs is accused of trying to impede a criminal investigation, of conduct unbecoming an officer and of violating a military order.

The Navy tested 3,300 special-operations and support sailors worldwide in May.

The tests were ordered after seven sailors â “ five SEALs and two special warfare combatant crewmen â “ tested positive for drugs while in Thailand. Six more sailors, including three SEALs, tested positive in other locations.

Hobbs and others were in Thailand to participate in Cobra Gold, an annual multinational military exercise.

  Got any other uneducated spoutings?

 

[badapple]

It shouldn't matter if it is legalized. The CF has a policy against it, I don't think it is more because it is illegal, but because of drugs effects. Argue the reasons for it all damn day if you want, if they have a policy against it then that is it, there's not a thing anyone here can do about it right now. You want to change it? Go run for the Liberals, get into office, get the MND's post, then tell the troopies to spark up, good luck!

On a side note: I am curious to hear the input from some of the more senior members on this forum as to what they think will happen should pot be legalized. Do you see the policies changing? In what way? May it be treated the same as booze?

you're not listening, theres obviously a reason there is the policy in place, and im saying those "foundations" that were used to make that policy are changing, if its a matter of legality, thats changing, if its a matter of morals, those are changeing, and if its a matter of safety, then new studies, or recent studies, have shown that alcohol has a more negitive effect on humans.   SO WHAT IM SAYING IS.......tell me the foundations, or suspected foundations of that policy, because ALL AROUND marijuana is being socially accepted more and more, in some places even moreso than tobacco smoking.   My opinion is in roughly ten years, it will be handled the same as alcohol by the CF

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

you're not listening, theres obviously a reason there is the policy in place, and im saying those "foundations" that were used to make that policy are changing, if its a matter of legality, thats changing, if its a matter of morals, those are changeing, and if its a matter of safety, then new studies, or recent studies, have shown that alcohol has a more negitive effect on humans.  SO WHAT IM SAYING IS.......tell me the foundations, or suspected foundations of that policy, because ALL AROUND marijuana is being socially accepted more and more, in some places even moreso than tobacco smoking.  My opinion is in roughly ten years, it will be handled the same as alcohol by the CF

I don't think its socially changing at all, instead those who wish to make it legal are just yelling louder than the "silent majority"....and the media picks up on it like the lapdogs they are.

 

[muskrat89]

More and more companies are adopting certified testing programs, and "Zero Tolerance" policies. Sounds to me like the policies are getting "less permissive", by your guys' defiinition (Cheech and Chong, not Bruce and Armymedic)

My Workers' Comp Company offers a discount in our premiums for having a certified drug and alcohol program.....