PRETC thread (merged)

[17thRecceSgt]

I've been there a week and I had to use up my accumulated leave to get out of there.  I'm an OT and I felt degraded there.  I got almost 6 yrs in and well I'm treated like a cornflake.  Yes discipline is missing there, HUGE, last time our coy "marched"  they actually walked, talked, SMOKED, and had spits while marching.  I tell ya if this is the product of what is to come we are all in for a bad situation boys.  Alot of these people tryin to keep a grip on them are over worked and under manned.  I give the staff complete credit, they are doing what they can with the bunch of idiots they have down there.  I actually felt ashamed of our training system, for the first time.  I don't think they teach what those hero's in the world wars did so we can wear the uniforms we wear.  FOR CHRIST SAKE U WEAR THE FLAG ON YOUR LEFT SHOULDER, start serving it.  Again I don't think the staff is at fault here.  I praise there efforts with wat they got.

You are aware of the 4 types of discipline involved in the military?

Imposed is one...group is one (conforming to what the group does, not blanket parties) and another one is SELF-DISCIPLINE.  Doing the right think.  Doing what you are supposed to because you KNOW you are supposed to.  Stuff like that.  I have never seen a Coy march and walk/talk/smoke and all that, but consider yourself lucky I wasn't on the base and driving by.  Some of us Reserve NCOs have good ideas to solve problems like that.  Same as our Regular Force fellow NCOs.

If people have lots of SELF-DISCPLINE, you don't usually have to worry so much about the imposed.  Sounds to me like one or two punks need to be made an example of, and that is called a deterrant.  And a fair warning.  And it has worked in the past.

Never allow someone's low standard to be an excuse for adopting one yourself.  Period.

Get a grip troops.  Christ almighty.

Edit - Not directed at you, Crafty884...but at the morons you are speaking about.  I wanted to make that point clear it wasn't you I was spearing that one at.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

George, i'm just trying to find a solution that may help them out there.. would'nt you prefer an OJT instead of sitting and waiting all day? I know that they can't send people directly to their towns if there is no military base around...But maybe getting closer would be better than staying in Borden.

I can't believe the posts in this thread.  MILITARY!  MILITARY!  Thats what you are in.  This isn't friggin' the Student Council at your high school lads!

OJT?  Are you MOC qualified yet?  No?  What would you do OJT on if you know SFA yet?  Fix radios that people need to work and mess them up?  Planes?  Trucks?  Weapons?

And the whining and bitching..."my memo got lost" "i am too far away from home" "my bum hurts" and all that crap.

Watch the news.  See THOSE trooops ?  The ones in the desert cam over in that Afghanistan place?  55 degrees Celcius...body armour on... ambushs, attacks, IEDs, suicide bombers, desert creatures, heat exhaustion, danger-close fire, humping FULL kit...FULL kit.  water.  rats.  ammo.  pers kit.  platoon/section kit. 

Now ask yourself how many of them come on here and whine and moan and all the crap that has been posted in here.

Get it?

You joined the military...sometimes referred to as "the service".  The service of what?  CANADA.

start acting and thinking like you are "in the service".  Thats what you signed up for, isn't it?  To serve?  Or be served.

Yes, PRETC sounds like a shitty go.  Its TEMPORARY and no one is SHOOTING at you.  So...could it be worse?  Yes its not perfect AND it probably is not the most important aspect of the CF these days, which is likely why it is not being thrown more resources.  Suck it up!  You get to eat, wash, you get paid...yes it sucks to wait.  Get used to it cause life is like that.  Waiting is good sometimes.  Learn to appreciate it.

Set a high personal standard.  Make the best of it you can.  Make some friends.  Pray for your fellow soldiers fighting for their lives.  Make the best of the situation. Canadian soldiers are not world-reknown for standing around bitching, they are known for getting the job done and making the best of it. 

And be patient when you memo gets lost.  It could be worse.

Part of what has made me get thru crappy time the past 17 years is always finding the positive side of a bad go.  "I am getting paid for this!"  "This is pensionable time!" "The taxpayers pay for my clothes and boots!".  And a sense of humour.  If you think life in the military is perfect and flawless outside PRETC, guess again.  You know what?  There are 2 types of people;  ones that are part of the problem, and ones that are part of the solution.  Think quickly.  You know already which one you are.  If its the first one, change that.  Someday you may be an NCO.  Your officer not only want to hear the problems, he / she is looking to you for potential solutions.  Otherwise its just bitching.

One of the most vivid memories I have always had was what was in big black letters on the Drill Hall in Basic Training when it was in Cornwallis Nova Scotia....

"Learn To Serve"

 

[big bad john]

I've always said that it is nice to have a competent Sgt around.  Thank you Stan.

 

[SIG MITCH]

STOP BITCHING ABOUT IT!!!!! IF ITS THAT BAD GO BACK TO ST. JEAN AND WAIT ON PAT PLATOON THERE!!!

I spent 8 months there back in 2003, with my wife in Gagetown. I didnt bitch once about it, its all pensionalble time so who cares!!!!
We did things like a march to meaford in January, that killed off 8 or 9 days. It also stopped alot of people from whining about being bored!
Dont leave it all up to your staff to think of things to do.... Put some Ideas up yourself, for instance a comms exercise, get some radios and wander
around the base, let the SigOps practice there VP (I know there is a bunch of old CANSUP 1B books sitting around). How about forming everybody up each day and letting each person practice calling drill, that will kill off some time. Your staff isnt there to babysit you, take some initiaitive.
Just a thought

 

[MightyMouse]

I am going to Borden October 13th as a Cpl. to do three months on PAT Platoon.  Do they utilize Cpls on PAT platoon to assist in organization?

 

[Shamrock]

Yes.  You will be organized into a work party.

 

[vanislerev]

CPLs on pretc have no more responsibility than the rest of us, they just tend to be the ones stuck with "marching" us around, especially if you are PLQ qualified, im guessing your only a cpl seeing as you are MP from the looks of it, and have not done your 3s yet, your just like us... welcome to the club :brickwall:

 

[gazingatmars]

I have just finished basic, and am returning to Borden in Jan to wait for word on my next course date, be it SQ or Poet.  Any advice on courses I can take or things I can accomplish while on PRETC?  I am not sure what to expect. I hope I'm not waiting there too long. Any advice or experiences with PRETC would be welcome!

Thanks! Merry Christmas!

 

[MikeL]

I dunno how much PRETC has changed since I left; when I was there, for the most part we did f*ck all, due to lack of staff/too many Ptes/OSs attach posted in, etc. Lucked out a few times on got to do a week of rapelling, an since I had 404s I got to drive a fair bit. For day to day stuff you might do PT once or twice a week, but its a joke for the most part. If you wanna stay in shape, you gotta do it on your own time. If your lucky you can get tasked out an actually do something, if not.. well its a lot of sitting around doing nothing, some drill an two inspections a week.

 

[Zombie]

I dunno how much PRETC has changed since I left; when I was there, for the most part we did **** all, due to lack of staff/too many Ptes/OSs attach posted in, etc. Lucked out a few times on got to do a week of rapelling, an since I had 404s I got to drive a fair bit. For day to day stuff you might do PT once or twice a week, but its a joke for the most part. If you wanna stay in shape, you gotta do it on your own time. If your lucky you can get tasked out an actually do something, if not.. well its a lot of sitting around doing nothing, some drill an two inspections a week.

Agreed with all of the above, especially the sitting around doing nothing. Don't wait to be lucky to get on a tasking, keep letting your MCpl or Sgt know you want on one, and be there when they ask who wants on a tasking which is usually at the end of the day at dismissal. I got on a 6 week tasking and I still think that's what made my time on PRETC somewhat bearable. You'll probably do SQ while on PRETC, either in Meaford or Gagetown, which will be the best thing you do while on PRETC.

Here's a good link for more info http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/49338.0.html

 

[gazingatmars]

Hi Guys,

I just finished BMQ, and I am joining PRETC in January, for God knows how long. Are there courses in Borden one can take? Ones that are a week, 2 or 3 long? We must take a proactive approach to our career, right? Like, is BDT offered in Borden, or other basic-something training courses? Should I talk to a career cousellor, or will my direct supervisor be able to answer my questions?  And if I request some better kit be issued to me, will I get it? Like Boots and Jackets...?
Thanks! Merry Christmas!

 

[scotty884]

UFI  I was there in august as a CPL, OT from Artillery.  I did just like buddy said earlier, I marched them, other than that I was pretty much a no hook private in there eyes.  Take the advice from above, just grin and bear it I hated it too.  But its better than bullets over your head or in it at that huh?

 

[gazingatmars]

Ya, but what I want to know is if there are any short courses available to take in Borden while in PRETC...

 

[MikeL]

If needed for your QL3 you will be put on your Driver Course. Aside from that, I dunno if they run any sort of courses.

An yes, you can do kit exchanges in Borden. I think PRETCs Clothing Sotres time is Wednesday afternoon. Dont expect to get ICE kit, small packs or anything like that though.

 

[gazingatmars]

Thanks!

 

[Sparkplugs]

I've spent the last 2+ months on the CFSATE version of PRETC, and you can whine all you want, but it doesn't change anything.  Try to get taskings, that's all I can say.  At PRETC, there are better opportunities for taskings, try and get on them!  People like to complain, but when the Sgt or Mcpl comes into the room and says, "Okay, I need 6 people for a tasking!" everyone starts ducking their heads or suddenly has to visit the MIR.  I've seen it happen.  I don't care if the tasking involves an hour of moving furniture, or 3 weeks working in supply, do it!  Keep yourself busy!

I've tried to get on some french training, or my 404 course, to no avail.  Tried to get OJT somewhere too, even if it's just sweeping hangar floors.  Nope.  I tried, used memos, CoC, nothing.  I got pretty lucky, and I start course when I get off my xmas leave, but all I can say is keep trying.  I would have loved to go do SQ while waiting, but being in the air force, I don't get to. 

And I know of a few really wicked awesome taskings that have come out of PRETC in the last couple months.  4 people got to go on 'night shift' and play in all kinds of situations for all the new MP's to react to.  12 people got to go to Petawawa and do the same thing for the JTF training.  PRETC gets to go to the range on occasion.  They get to go on marches, they get more PT, the change to go out running, or to the gym...  We at CFSATE don't get any of that.  Our taskings are usually moving furniture at the 16 Wing HQ, or sorting mail.  But you do them so you don't go nuts doing nothing.  Yes, we end up playing a lot of cards, watching a lot of movies.  But come on, really?  Where else is going to pay you to do that while you're waiting to start work?  Yes it's boring.  SUCK IT UP, CUPCAKE!  There are way worse things you could be doing.  Cleaning toilets, working at McD's...  grow up guys, deal with it.  They're doing everything they can to get us trained, and there aren't too many easy solutions here, so you have to take the responsibility and make the best of it.  It's not forever, relax.  Just volunteer to go do stuff, don't wait around for 'the good ones' and then complain.

edited for spelling.

 

[gazingatmars]

I wasn't whining.  I was asking for information on courses and kit exchange.  I was prepared to be attach posted on PRETC.  Sorry you didn't get to take the courses you wanted. Also, I'm pretty sure most of us know our situation is better than cleaning toilets or working at McDonalds, or we wouldn't have worked so hard to get here.  You shoud tone down the rude, holier than thou attitude in your posts.  There are ways to get your point across without insulting others.

Thanks to everyone who posted their advice and knowledge about PRETC.  Now I know a little more than nothing about what to expect in January.  Hope everyone has a Happy New Year!

 

[Sparkplugs]

I wasn't whining.  I was asking for information on courses and kit exchange.  I was prepared to be attach posted on PRETC.  Sorry you didn't get to take the courses you wanted. Also, I'm pretty sure most of us know our situation is better than cleaning toilets or working at McDonalds, or we wouldn't have worked so hard to get here.  You shoud tone down the rude, holier than thou attitude in your posts.  There are ways to get your point across without insulting others.

Thanks to everyone who posted their advice and knowledge about PRETC.  Now I know a little more than nothing about what to expect in January.  Hope everyone has a Happy New Year!

And perhaps I wasn't talking to you.  But in this thread, there were many, many posts that consisted of "WAH WAH WAH" and not much else.  I didn't intend to be holier than thou, because I know I'm not.  I'm in the same situation, but I feel that we are the small fries of the military.  I understand why my kit is crappy... because there are people in the military who need it way more than we do.  That's all. 

 

[Meridian]

Good advice from everyone.

My very worthless .02$

1) Its good to vent.... sometimes people on army.ca forget that.

2) Its good to raise things; even in unconventional formats, and especially when people in the know can take that feedback into consideration and feed it into where it matters for the future

3) Raising things doesn't mean bitching about them... things are a certain way for a reason - it doesn't mean they can't change for the better over the long haul, but whining never gets your point across, its just whining.

 

[punkd]

hah, I remember my first day on PRETC they gave us the big speech on how they know theres not alot for us to do but we are not here to push brooms and pick up garbage.

.. By the end of  day 1 we had already done a garbage sweep! (not joking either! haha)

But anyways as for courses, you will only get the ones you need for your trade training (Ex, airbrakes, LSVW, BDT)
If these are not mandatory for your trade you most likely will not get on them because they need the room for the people who need them.

Taskings are basically the only thing you can get (unless your there for more than 3-4 months you can apply for EWAT) some taskings are good, some are not so great.
They never really tell you what they are for at first, they just ask for volunteers so its really hit-or-miss. Although for the most part they are better sitting around on PRETC
all jokes a side people literally slept all day in the student break trailer, just moving for role calls.

The downside of it really is that you cannot do your own PT or much of anything when your just sitting around all day, it would be great if they had let us go to the gym or go for a run. But nope, you sit around T-83 all day long, because of the people that just leave and go do what they want they need to be able to keep track of everyone.

As for Clothing stores there, its kinda hit or miss some days they will give you almost anything you want, other days they won't give you a thing! And make sure you are clear with them you want it as permanent issue and not a temp. loan or you might have some issues clearing out as I did. Fun when your kit has already been shipped off.  :-\