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Presidential election may be up for grabs

Ya know, I'm loathe to comment on foreign domestic politics.  Canadians who say "I wish I were American so that I could vote for XXX" always grate on me.  I have nothing to offer as to who would be the better president - Democrat or Republican, black, white, male or female.

However, I'll offer this:  if Obama were ever to be elected, the effect on US international policy would, I believe, be immediate and electric - even if he did nothing to alter current US policies.  His election would "prove" that the US system "works" to the huge array of jaded America-bashers out there, who could say very little against a nation that elected an African American with "Hussein" as a middle name.

I'm not sure that this would be the case if Clinton gets in, despite her gender.

Could be an interesting dynamic...
 
Unofficial Tallies in City Understated Obama Vote

Correction Appended

Black voters are heavily represented in the 94th Election District in Harlem’s 70th Assembly District. Yet according to the unofficial results from
the New York Democratic primary last week, not a single vote in the district was cast for Senator Barack Obama. That anomaly was not unique.
In fact, a review by The New York Times of the unofficial results reported on primary night found about 80 election districts among the city’s
6,106 where Mr. Obama supposedly did not receive even one vote, including cases where he ran a respectable race in a nearby district.

City election officials this week said that their formal review of the results, which will not be completed for weeks, had confirmed some major
discrepancies between the vote totals reported publicly — and unofficially — on primary night and the actual tally on hundreds of voting machines
across the city. In the Harlem district, for instance, where the primary night returns suggested a 141 to 0 sweep by Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton,
the vote now stands at 261 to 136. In an even more heavily black district in Brooklyn — where the vote on primary night was recorded as 118 to 0
for Mrs. Clinton — she now barely leads, 118 to 116.

The history of New York elections has been punctuated by episodes of confusion, incompetence and even occasional corruption. And election officials
and lawyers for both Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton agree that it is not uncommon for mistakes to be made by weary inspectors rushing on election
night to transcribe columns of numbers that are delivered first to the police and then to the news media. That said, in a presidential campaign in
which every vote at the Democratic National Convention may count, a swing of even a couple of hundred votes in New York might help Mr. Obama
gain a few additional delegates.

City election officials said they were convinced that there was nothing sinister to account for the inaccurate initial counts, and The Times’s review
found a handful of election districts in the city where Mrs. Clinton received zero votes in the initial results. “It looked like a lot of the numbers were
wrong, probably the result of human error,” said Marcus Cederqvist, who was named executive director of the Board of Elections last month. He
said such discrepancies between the unofficial and final count rarely affected the raw vote outcome because “they’re not usually that big.”

...Assemblyman Keith L. T. Wright, a Clinton supporter who represents the same area, said he was confident that there was an innocent explanation
for the original count giving Mr. Obama zero votes. “I’m sure it’s a clerical error of some sort,” Mr. Wright said. “Being around elections for the last
25 years, no candidate receives zero votes.”

But Gordon J. Davis, a former New York City parks commissioner and an Obama poll watcher in the district, remained skeptical, even after being
informed of the corrected count. “First it was reported at 141 to 0, now it’s 261 to 136 in an Assembly district that went 12,000 to 8,000 for Barack,”
Mr. Davis said on Friday.
 
No one, at least no one in our little circle is willing to admit to the 'novelty' factor.
I think you keep wise company. ;)
If one were to cast aspersions one might say there is some reverse racism attached to it.
I don't think color should be an issue but I'm not naive enough to think that it won't be.
Just as GWB didn't quite fit the mold that was cast for him when he became president,
I sure Obama would surprise everyone at least a little.

Teddy Ruxpin, you are probably right in the short term. America would gain some cred.
In the long term - there's this issue of circumstance. We don't know.
Personally, I'd vote for McCain.  Small c Conservatives have been underrepresented of late.

As for opining about American politics - It's a little like talking about who will be the next Caesar
when you live in another part of the empire.  Not all that foreign really.  It WILL affect us all.


 
I did not compare Obama to Hitler,rather it was the mindless cult mania that is quite similar of the supporters.After WW2 people wondered how anyone could have voted a nutter like Hitler into power.However,Hitler told the German people what they wanted to hear.He made them feel good about themselves and their country.The public got caught up in Hitlers spell and it didnt end until Germany lost the war.Obama appeals to black voters and leftists as his base. he has been able to appeal to independents and rank and file democrats. I just wonder if the attention he is getting is because of strong anti-Hillary feeling and whether this support will transition to the general election.

As Obama is forced to discuss policy I think his appeal may wain. His limited policy statements seem to be along the same line that Senator Edwards advocated but didnt reasonate with voters.
 
tomahawk6 said:
I did not compare Obama to Hitler,rather it was the mindless cult mania that is quite similar of the supporters.After WW2 people wondered how anyone could have voted a nutter like Hitler into power.However,Hitler told the German people what they wanted to hear.He made them feel good about themselves and their country.The public got caught up in Hitlers spell and it didnt end until Germany lost the war.Obama appeals to black voters and leftists as his base. he has been able to appeal to independents and rank and file democrats. I just wonder if the attention he is getting is because of strong anti-Hillary feeling and whether this support will transition to the general election.

As Obama is forced to discuss policy I think his appeal may wain. His limited policy statements seem to be along the same line that Senator Edwards advocated but didnt reasonate with voters.

+1

Once the actual election gets underway, we will see who stands where. Hopefully, if Obama does receive the nomination, he doesn't simply play the race card to avoid answering the tough questions before him.
 
Obama's camp today suggested to Hillary that she concede. That is pretty arrogant and will only fire up the Clinton's. Obama is in for a street fight. Neither side can win enough delegates to win on the first ballot. I dont see either side backing off and the super delegates who are party elites will pick the nominee. The Clinton's hold alot of IOU's.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/20/uselections2008.usa1
 
From today's Houston Chronicle: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/5557189.html

Feb. 21, 2008, 5:14AM
Road to redemption for Clintons: Embrace Obama
The train's leaving — Bill and Hillary should be aboard

By DAVID BERG
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle

Acouple of summers ago, my wife and I attended a fundraiser for Hillary Clinton, before she announced her candidacy for president, but long after it was obvious she was running. Earlier that week, we attended a town hall meeting with the recently elected Sen. Barack Obama, who, ironically, assured the audience that Sen. Clinton would be the next presidential nominee of the Democratic Party, that no one else was even close.

Hillary spoke first at the fundraiser, but each time she began to talk, Bill interrupted her and monopolized the floor. The situation quickly became uncomfortable. Nevertheless, the assembled Democrats were not likely to be upset with Bill Clinton, who, like Lazarus, had risen from the dead, ending his troubled presidency with a 66 percent approval rating and emerging through ubiquitous good works as one of the most respected men on Earth.

Republicans and Democrats agreed: If Bill Clinton could run for president, he would win.

That is why it was so shocking to hear Bill Clinton, regarded by many as the "first black president," try to marginalize Obama's impending win in the South Carolina primary as a mere consequence of his race. That was the moment — when Bill Clinton made comments dismissing Obama's strong showing because Jesse Jackson had won that state's primary twice in the 1980s — that many of his admirers turned away from him. It was also the moment when Hillary, having forfeited center stage to her husband, also forfeited whatever chance she had to gain the nomination.

There are consequences beyond losing elections for the Clintons. I wish the two of them could have overheard, as I did, the young African-American prosecutor behind me at the Obama rally in Houston Tuesday night, who told his friend how shocked he was by those comments, and how — I was surprised by this — it had made him cry when President Clinton said that voting for Obama was like "rolling the dice."

I wish the two of them could have seen the ocean of black faces, brown faces and white faces, and felt the good will that permeated that arena. I wish that they could have heard the excited 10-year-old next to me, jumping up and down on her seat, waiving her Obama sign and chanting, "Si, se puede" with the crowd. (In the interest of full disclosure, that child is my daughter, Caitlin, and in truth, as excited as she was over Obama, when he suggested that we have to do a better job as parents and turn off the TV, her mood darkened, and she asked anxiously, "What about new episodes"?)

I guarantee you, as the oldest living man in America who has actually attended a Hannah Montana concert, my daughter is completely colorblind. From what I have seen of her generation, and that of my grown sons', that is the norm, not the exception. Racial politics simply won't work; not this time — and if all that good will seeps into the wider world — perhaps never again.

I wish, frankly, that the Clintons, who in many ways helped make Obama's candidacy possible, could hear firsthand how they let down so many people who cared about them and supported them through many tough years — how by their divisive tactics they have become the people and politics they deplore.

In short, I wish they could have been there Tuesday night to understand clearly how times and mores have changed and, perhaps, to understand how important it is that a new generation be given a chance.

Despite all this, there is a road to redemption for the Clintons. Hillary should simply admit the obvious: It's all over. If she has any lingering doubts, just look to Wisconsin, where she lost overwhelmingly in the state that practically invented white people. If she needs more proof, take it on faith from one who has lived here forever: She's going to lose the Texas primary, too. Against all odds, Barack Obama will be the nominee of the Democratic Party. Hillary should concede the race now and, along with her husband, throw her wholehearted support to Obama.

By doing that, by taking the high road that seems to elude them presently, Sen. Clinton will reclaim her place as a central figure in the Democratic Party, and President Clinton, his iconic role on the world stage.

Even in defeat, Bill and Hillary probably can do more than any other Americans to unite the Democratic Party behind Obama and help him become the next president.

But they had better act quickly, because it's going to happen, and that train, with their disappointed friends aboard, is about to leave the station.

Berg, a Houston trial lawyer and writer, became a contributor to the Obama campaign after the South Carolina primary. He can be e-mailed at dberg@bafirm.com .

 
I have a dream:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/14/opinion/main3831288.shtml

Rice Is Right For McCain's VP
The Nation: Putting Condoleezza Rice On The Republican Ticket Would Cause Indescribable Angst For Dems
Feb. 14, 2008

(The Nation) This column was written by Nicholas von Hoffman.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Democrats who think it's going to be a cakewalk into the White House next November had best remember one name: Condoleezza Rice.

John McCain is a formidable candidate in his own right, but if he has the political imagination to do it, he can cause the party of Jefferson and Jackson indescribable angst with Rice as his vice-presidential pick.

Besides being the greatest two-for in GOP history, Rice brings other huge pluses to the decorated Vietnam hero. Indeed, she may be enough to elect the venerable hero/naval aviator.

McCain's troubles with the religious wing of his party could well evaporate with the churchgoing Rice at his side. She solidifies that part of his base overnight.

With Rice on the ticket, the GOP would have somebody to get enthusiastic about. The Secretary of State is immensely popular with Republicans. For a party that up to now has been clueless about how to run against either a woman or a person of color, Condoleezza Rice is pure political gold.

Woe to any Democrat who thinks taking her on in a debate is a sure thing. The woman is tough, fast on her feet and able to give better than she gets. Anyone who has seen her in action testifying in front of a hostile House or Senate committee knows that she will be able to wipe up the floor with a plodding, ordinary pol of a Democratic vice-presidential candidate. Take Rice lightly at your peril.

In the ordinary course of things the ideal vice-presidential candidate is relied upon to carry his or her home state and keep out of trouble. With Condi the GOP gets a lot more. It gets a superstar to match the Democrats' superstars. If it comes to name recognition, glamour and magnetism for conservatives, Condi is dandy. Also, it is a plus for the GOP team that she is a snappy dresser.

Rice's presence on the ticket deprives the Democrats of the we-are-more-diverse-than-thou argument. It makes McCain - whose ethnically diverse family includes an adopted daughter from Bangladesh - an even more attractive candidate for a certain kind of independent voter.

Rice can rightly be attacked for serving President Bush and backing an unpopular and disastrous war. But McCain, who is extremely pro-war himself, is not going to select a running mate who is wishy-washy on Iraq. Rice is also said to have done a poor job running the State Department, where morale is supposed to have dropped faster than a subprime mortgage. However, you can put the number of voters who give a rodent's behind about the care and feeding of cookie-pushing diplomats in a phone booth, if phone booths still existed.

With Rice on the ticket the Republicans are freed up to run a much stronger negative campaign against either Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama because the Secretary of State provides them with cover against charges of sexism or racism. They would be able to go after Obama's membership in Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ. Its minister, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., with whom Obama is close, has won himself the militant tag from conservatives because of his association with Nation of Islam leader the Rev. Louis Farrakhan.

They can attack Hillary's experience claims as consisting of her being Bill's wife. They can challenge her boast that she is a strong, independent woman and paint her as a weak, hopelessly-in-love woman under the spell of a man subject not only to "bimbo eruptions" but also eruptions of smarmy deals with shady business figures.

Lastly, Rice is a notorious sports fan with excruciatingly detailed knowledge of much of its arcana. She's often said that her dream job is commissioner of the National Football League; however, in a pinch she would probably settle for Vice President of the United States.

By Nicholas von Hoffman
Reprinted with permission from The Nation.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Businessman and former Congressman and star athlete JC Watts is also being touted as a potential VP candidate.

You mean for McCain? It says in the link you provided that he's Republican. Well if this Watts guy is picked by McCain as a running mate, this could neutralize Obama's playing the race card.

 
CougarDaddy said:
You mean for McCain? It says in the link you provided that he's Republican. Well if this Watts guy is picked by McCain as a running mate, this could neutralize Obama's playing the race card.

Yes, indeed: for McCain.

Watts is on the conservative side of the Republican Party and would help, maybe even more than Rice, with the bible thumpers (having been a Baptist preacher, too).

He has the advantages of being young, conservative, black and a (modestly) experienced legislator. Coming from Oklahoma he doesn't really do a lot to garner support in the Deep South or the populous Northeast or vote-rich California, but you can't have everything.
 
Infanteer said:
Plus, he played CFL FOOTBALL!

- A CFLer in the White House.  That's good.  I think the current 'high' is LGov Norm Kwong of Alta.
 
Aden_Gatling said:
This kinda says a lot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZTo0iGc_Dw&eurl=

This isn't much better from McCain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzcPpZEs4t0  ;)

And yes I know the video was made by a nut, but its all freely available clips and its the message, not the person people should be focusing on. And that's a good message for this entire election. Whether people choose a black man, a woman, or a man who could become the oldest ever president, people shouldn't focus on those aspects, just the message, but unfortunately that probably won't happen.
 
For all those looking for legislative accomplishments of various peoples.  Its all here, just pick the name from one of the drop-downs and see for yourself.

http://thomas.loc.gov/

Count of pieces of legislation introduced during current Congress: (obviously no indicator of quality)
McCain - 37
Clintion - 150
Obama - 113
 
Aden_Gatling said:
This kinda says a lot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZTo0iGc_Dw&eurl=

::) Let's be fair. Just because the surrogates don't do their homework doesn't necessarily mean the man they are working for is the same.

 
CougarDaddy said:
::) Let's be fair. Just because the surrogates don't do their homework doesn't necessarily mean the man they are working for is the same.

The point is that Obama has no legislative accomplishments to name. People are turning out for him based on likeabilty/race.
 
tomahawk6 said:
The point is that Obama has no legislative accomplishments to name. People are turning out for him based on likeabilty/race.

Did you not read the link Bane posted? It goes through every senators legislature they put through, and while it might be subjective on what is an accomplishment he has certainly done a hell of a lot more than McCain and gotten a lot more co-sponsors in the process.
 
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