Posting Policy-Restricted (IR) & Prohibited moves [MERGED]

[armyvern]

its not like I have never been away before and deployments have end dates. if there was an end date I wouldn't be worried.

K. Now you know what it's like to be IR (well, not exactly - MSC) ... for numerous postings (ie: years) in a row.

That being said, I managed to get a lot of pers out of PRetC Borden in to Gagetown to do their OJT because their families were in the area of us and not Borden.

It's already been brought up here by someone else, but I'd approach with a request to be sent to Esquimalt to do OJT until a final disposition is made on your status. The worst that's going to happen is a "no" response. They sure as heck won't (can't) say "yes" if you don't make the inquiry though.

 

[wesleyd]

its not like I have never been away before and deployments have end dates. if there was an end date I wouldn't be worried.

I wouldn't say that deployments have end dates. I have been on several that have had no end date. We were just told we may be home in 8 months time or longer or shorter.

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

Tony.  PM me

 

[jeffb]

I wouldn't say that deployments have end dates. I have been on several that have had no end date. We were just told we may be home in 8 months time or longer or shorter.

That's still an end date... When I was in Gagetown it was not uncommon for people to posted there prohibited for 1.5 - 2 years. I know of one guy who was prohibited posted there for over 3 years. Many of these people moved their families up to Fredericton on their own dime not willing to be doing the long distance relationship thing for years on end with no date. Not sure what it is like now but given the length of training for officers, I suspect it can not be much shorter that people are expected to be away from their families.

 

[mayoman]

Here is the issue, I was posted to Cold Lake from Winnipeg, and I submitted a memo to reside outside the Geo Area of Cold Lake, which i received back approved in Apr 13, So  I went to IRP and planned my HHT to Lloydminster did my HHT and bought a house in Lloyd, RTB'd to Wpg and planned my move packed and loaded my HG&E end July and traveled to Lloyd, arrived on the 2 Aug 13 and took possion of my house that morning, I received a call from IRP Winnipeg that afternoon and was told that DCBA denied my request, my memo states in the W ADM CWO min that CO's approval granted and that no need to staff through DCBA, so this mean that my move was an illegal move and it means that I have to repay my all money from my move. that means I have to Repay all My HHT, and everything associated with the move. Now DCBA and IRP has come around a bit they will cover some of my drive out to Lloyd but not all, they will not pay for anything with buying in Lloyd, and I have to pay back all the HHT, Also because I bought in Lloyd, which DCBA denied my HG&E was not delivered to Lloyd but to Cold Lake and the trailer was parked on the side of the road, where I had to rent U-Hauls trucks and reload it myself and bring it to Lloyd at my own expense. This is just some of the points, so far getting posted to Cold Lake is costing me over $10 grand out of my pocket, after 25 years of loyal service, this how they treat me. my release went in yesterday. I am thinking legal action, but don't know where to start, can anyone point me in the right direction.

 

[Jungle]

Can you claim it as your release move ?

 

[dapaterson]

IRP Manual, section 2.6 has the following to say:

Section 2.6 Authority to reside outside geographical
boundaries

2.6.01 Shipment of HG&E
Shipment of HG&E is normally authorized from the geographical boundaries of the former place of duty to the geographical boundaries of the new place of duty.

2.6.02 Authority
CF members who wish to reside outside the established geographical boundaries of the new place of duty require the approval of the gaining unit Commanding Officer (CO).
The CO should consider the following:
 the reasonable daily distance that can be traveled to and from the CF
member’s primary residence to the new place of duty; and
 CF member’s ability to travel within established time limitations to the
new place of duty when recalled.
Subsequent approval of DCBA is required to relocate the (D) HG&E.

2.6.03 Expenses
Expenses associated with the shipment of HG&E will be limited to costs associated with relocating within the established geographical boundaries of the place of duty.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I just went thru this process this APS and was approved.  I'm curious how your file got thru all the checks and balances in place.

Someone screwed up.  The approval to reside outside Geo Boundaries final authority is DCBA.  The process is:

1.  seek CO's approval, if granted, go to 2.  If denied...secure replacement residence inside boundaries/go IR.

2.  BAdmO approval is sought.  If approved, that org fwd's request to DCBA for adjudication.

3.  DCBA does their file review and renders decision.

Someone dropped the ball with your request.  However, I knew the process as I am OCD and read the IRP manual, etc from front to back and had a highlighter when I did it, to draw attention to the parts that applied to me.  *CYA* kind of thing, right?

Also, I'm curious about IRP;  my file didn't move forward until they had a copy of the DCBA decision and IRP was Cc'd the email decision;  I had about a 1.5 month wait for DCBA to decide but IRP would do nothing until that decision.  How, in your case, did IRP move forward without that message from IRP??

How far is your replacement residence from the geo boundary?  Not defending anyone, but DCBA reviews lots of factors (market health, distance from place of duty, etc) when deciding these requests.

I don't believe the way they handled it was appropriate based on your reply; the CofC has a responsibility to ensure the admin was done correctly (IMO).


Not sure of your unit SOPs, but maybe a start to getting this reviewed is a sit-down with your immediate CofC, after which they can speak to the Admin O.  If the Admin O gets the facts straight, they might be able to brief the Exec types/CO and see what can be done.

You might also consider doing up a Notice of Intent To Grieve to submit to your CO. 

 

[mayoman]

Thanks for the feedback, to clarify a couple of things, my memo was submitted and approved by CO's, W Admin O, and W Ops O,  min #2  states " This is CO approval no need to staff thru DCBA" and this is what I gave to IRP, and they made the arrangements, I guess, based on this. So everything I done was done in good faith, and above board, although I purchased a house outside geo area, I had a plan to stay with my uncle during the week and this was also stated in my memo, I had all bases covered.

 

[DAA]

dapaterson hit the nail on the head.  CFIRP Manual Art 2.6.02 and 2.6.03.  Whilst your CO does have the authority to authorize you to reside outside the geographical boundaries of your place of duty, it is DCBA who is the ultimate authority for the relocation of your D HG&E to that area due to financial issues both going in and coming out.

You got some seriously BAD administrative advice and on top of that your Brookefield Rep should have said "Where is the DCBA approval to relocate your belongings?".  In the end, you may be paying the price for it! 

 

[mayoman]

DAA you may be right, I am already paying the price, but what to do next, I have submitted my release, after 25 + years, i am the one to pay for other peoples mistakes, they have already started to recover my HHT expenses, so legal action my be my next option.

 

[DAA]

DAA you may be right, I am already paying the price, but what to do next, I have submitted my release, after 25 + years, i am the one to pay for other peoples mistakes, they have already started to recover my HHT expenses, so legal action my be my next option.

Why jump the gun and make a decision to release based on a "bump" in the road.  Your better off to ride it out and try to resolve the issue from within, as opposed to walking away bitter and angry over a screw-up that should never have happened in the first place.

And I wouldn't waste any money on the legal avenue.  I'm pretty sure that Agents of the "crown" can't be sued for making mistakes at their job, unless it is as a result of "wilful" negligence.

 

[PAdm]

I am going to assume that all was in good faith and it was failures of bureaucracy that created this problem. I am also going to assume that many people are now looking at you and saying "gee, that's too bad".  I have seen screw ups put right when the right people get involved. E.g. When your general calls their general, the issue gets attention. If you do not have a general buddy in your pocket (few do), you need another mechanism to get attention at the right level.  A grievance is one such mechanism but will take 12-24 months to get there. Release is not such a mechanism as the system does not care/get fussed with releases.  Accordingly, I would recommend you look into the Ombudsman route. You need to demonstrate that the system created a problem and is now leaving you holding the bag. They cannot guarantee a positive solution, but will demand due process take place in a timely manner. This maybe the heat and light you need.  Right now you are arguing with staff officers when the reality is you need to access the organ grinder himself. Who knows what the result will be, but you need to get past the staff. Good luck and do not release.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Would a good place to start be the Admin O at the new unit?  I mentioned it before, as I thought that *perhaps* the Admin O at new place of duty might see the error was not on the part of the mbr, discuss with CO, CO support and take up to his/her boss...etc.  This could be the quickest and best remedy (if it worked). 

Also, a well-written NOI to grieve might get 'eyes on' from the Admin O and CO as well.

I am thinking *quickly, informally* for *slow/formal*.

Also, with the Ombudsmen, I doubt you'll get any action there as there is a requirement to "use existing mechanism's in the CF first".  Ref for that is the DAOD for the Office of the Ombudsmen (I am not at work and can't recall the exact DAOD #).  It also states that CF mbr's who do not use CF internal mech's may be subj to admin/disciplinary measures.

 

[dapaterson]

From the original post:  "my memo states in the W ADM CWO min that CO's approval granted and that no need to staff through DCBA".

Sounds to me like negligent performance of a duty.  Methinks if more folks were held accountable for their actions they might do their jobs properly.

 

[McG]

Sounds like negligent misrepresentation.  Legally, the crown could be obligated to pay up, but even the CDS does not have the authority to fix what happened by covering the costs.  You may want to look at DAOD 7004-0 and Director Claims and Civil Litigation (DCCL).

 

[mayoman]

Thanks for all the feed back, I received an email this morning stating that under 2nd review DGCB has consulted all documentation and considered the new facts that were brought before him, DGCB is authorizing all relocation benefits, including purchase benefits.

 

[badwolf]

I know this subject has been discussed to great lengths; however, I have been out of the CF for just under 2 years and I am looking for some clarification on IR Benefits. When I was last in the CF during 2011 I was on IR and basically I received something like $14/day and my rent was reimbursed.

I am returning to the CF and I will be posted away from my spouse for at least the first year. I want to know what the new(since all the cuts) IR Benefits are; basically we are wondering if is even worth applying for, or if we should just have all our belongings shipped to my new posting and just collect the PLD and deal with being apart.

I am being posted to Calgary and there are no barracks, or mess,  and rent is extremely high, so we are also curious what the PLD is and how it is payed out as I have never received PLD before.

Any help with this will be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

Badwolf

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Great news!  Did you retract your release memo?

 

[captloadie]

I've been watching this post with interest, and now have to ask one question. How did you convince anyone that living 2 hours away from your place of duty was acceptable? To be honest, I think the CO should have denied the request from the onset, which would have stopped all futher issues you have had.