Politics in 2016

[Jarnhamar]

attacking the victim? People on the Internet I'm guessing? Because people on the Internet on both sides of the spectrum are incredibly classy I guess.

Deflection. 
Considering the number of people that both have access to the internet today and those that chime in on this stuff the distinction between "real life people" and "people on the internet" is pretty thin.

Regardless if she pulled a European football player drama show or not an unsettling number of people attacked her over it with threats of violence, sexual assault and personal attacks.  People are in love with Trudeau and will either justify or fluff off behavior that is unacceptable.

The most I've seen in print is talking about how ridiculous regular Canadians will find the opposition making impact statements and how they feel unsafe at work now. Or that beautiful Lisa Raitt tweet on how it's supposed to be about believing women, intentionally or unintentionally linking trudeau with ghomeshi.

Of course political opposition will react, or overreact, about anything they can which gives them spotlight time.

Taking an "Oh ya well so and so did this" when faced with something like this is more deflection. It's not a who misbehaved worse contest.  The PM fucked up. His apology was very mealy mouthed and seemed very insincere.

Our politics and politicians have turned into a reality TV show.

 

[Remius]

Deflection. 
Considering the number of people that both have access to the internet today and those that chime in on this stuff the distinction between "real life people" and "people on the internet" is pretty thin.

Regardless if she pulled a European football player drama show or not an unsettling number of people attacked her over it with threats of violence, sexual assault and personal attacks.  People are in love with Trudeau and will either justify or fluff off behavior that is unacceptable.
Of course political opposition will react, or overreact, about anything they can which gives them spotlight time.

Taking an "Oh ya well so and so did this" when faced with something like this is more deflection. It's not a who misbehaved worse contest.  The PM ****ed up. His apology was very mealy mouthed and seemed very insincere.

Our politics and politicians have turned into a reality TV show.

The problem is that the over reaction overtook what he did.  There was likely some political gain that the opposition parties could have made but it was squandered with hyperbolic statements about assault, sexual assault and drunk drivers.  That's when people who've seen the video roll there eyes and stop listening.  If you didn't like him before your likely the ones beating a dead horse over this.  If you liked him then he could do no wrong and the opposition are playing shenanigans.

Another issue that highlights what's wrong with critics of Trudeau is what they are criticising him for.  Talk radio on CFRA last night made the same point.  For years now his detractors have mentioned his hair, his wife, his father, his selfies, his vacations, his money, his yoga prowess and how the world seems to fawn over him.  Over and over again.  It's become white noise.  This why the attacks ads in the last election failed. Detractors (even here in this thread) see these things as having little substance and they are correct.  Which is why no one cares.  The criticism is just as hollow. 

"I hate Trudeau"
"Why?"
"His hair."

Or whatever. 

Elbowgate or whatever dumb ass thing they are calling this is just another example.  In the grand scheme, as polling is showing, most people don't care.

The opposition needs to come up with a better strategy to oppose.  If they keep focusing on the fluffy stuff they hate so much no one is going to listen. 

Focus on the budget fudging they are doing, focus on their hypocrisy in how they are ram rodding legislation using closure.  Let's call them on pipelines and the green energy plan etc etc. 

Essentially get off the light fluffy stuff and get serious about attacking the LPC and Trudeau policies because the LPC is outmanoeuvering both the NDP and the CPC without having to do very much. 

 

[PuckChaser]

Light fluffy stuff is how you get elected, look at Trudeau. You can focus on the issues all you want, but the Canadian public is only paying attention to Kardashian-esque antics. Float some sunshine, rainbows and legalized pot, and the general electorate can pretend oil price drops, global terrorist threats and massive cost of living increases don't exist anymore. Look at Tim Hudak - hard, blunt talk on issues, populace didn't care. Now Ontario is broke, and Canada is run by the same advisors that broke Ontario.

 

[Remius]

Light fluffy stuff is how you get elected, look at Trudeau. You can focus on the issues all you want, but the Canadian public is only paying attention to Kardashian-esque antics. Float some sunshine, rainbows and legalized pot, and the general electorate can pretend oil price drops, global terrorist threats and massive cost of living increases don't exist anymore. Look at Tim Hudak - hard, blunt talk on issues, populace didn't care. Now Ontario is broke, and Canada is run by the same advisors that broke Ontario.

It's also what gets you defeated.  Like it or not, the CPC 's almost obsessive attack ads didn't help.  They really didn't offer much and they focused on trivial things like hair. 

Hudak lost for more reasons than that.  He poorly communicated his plan and failed to connect which is something the CPC needs to avoid.  if you can't communicate you won't win the votes you need.  That is something the LPC was able to do regardless of the effectiveness of their policies.  Neither Stephen Harper nor Tim Hudak was able to effectively communicate why they were the right choice.  Wynne and Trudeau did. 

 

[George Wallace]

Neither Stephen Harper nor Tim Hudak was able to effectively communicate why they were the right choice. 

That there sums up the failure of both Federal and Ontario PC Parties in their respective election bids.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Neither Stephen Harper nor Tim Hudak was able to effectively communicate why they were the right choice.  Wynne and Trudeau did.

I remember when Wynne was running one of the biggest things she had going for her was that she was female and gay. When I was creeping around other sites and forums the cult following she had based solely on being a gay female was incredible. Trudeau? I wonder how many votes he got simply on the premise that he was going to legalize pot. Pretty important in the greater scheme of things.

Whats our promised 10 billion deficit up to now? Who cares it's just numbers.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I remember when Wynne was running one of the biggest things she had going for her was that she was female and gay. When I was creeping around other sites and forums the cult following she had based solely on being a gay female was incredible. Trudeau? I wonder how many votes he got simply on the premise that he was going to legalize pot. Pretty important in the greater scheme of things.

Whats our promised 10 billion deficit up to now? Who cares it's just numbers.

And speaking of numbers ...

After six months in office and in the wake of "elbowgate" Prime Minister Trudeau's popularity, and that of his party, remain astonishingly high.

Canadians voted for change and they are still persuaded that Justin Trudeau is going to bring it.

I have my doubts, but I think that, for now, a majority of Canadians (he's poling at 50%+) like Prime Minister Trudeau and either don't understand or just don't care what he's doing.

How long until the bloom is off the rose?  :dunno:  From a Conservative perspective any time before late spring of 2019 will do (i.e. when they suddenly realize that he can't balance the budget) ...

 

[Eaglelord17]

Whats our promised 10 billion deficit up to now? Who cares it's just numbers.

The other day I did some rough number crunching. With our current debt we are paying about 30 billion debt a year in interest (federally I don't even want to look at Ontarios numbers). If we go back 10 years and for arguments sake saying the interest payments were 30 billion for each year (just some rough numbers), we have spent 300 billion on just interest alone. That 300 billion is roughly half of Canadas federal debt (about 624 billion dollars at the moment). And this wasn't even to pay down the debt, just keep it steady.

The argument I have to make to people is think of how much we could have now if we weren't paying that interest. There would currently be no deficit, and might actually be a small surplus. Think of how many things we have lost out on by the older generations pushing there debt on to there children (and my generation helping to push it on to my children).

 

[Cloud Cover]

I have my doubts, but I think that, for now, a majority of Canadians (he's poling at 50%+) like Prime Minister Trudeau and either don't understand or just don't care what he's doing.

The number of people, especially in academia, who think this guy is a saviour is predictable but depressing. The number of female students in university and college who chuck their brains and vote on the eye candy principle is depressing.  The number of male students in university, college and prison who cannot wait to legally smoke pot in the parking lot before driving home is astounding. I'm going to start selling photo shopped JT in a Speedo poster sets complete with adam/eve toys, potato chips and other munchies in the orange pass parking lots, and retire in 2 years or less. 

 

[Altair]

The number of people, especially in academia, who think this guy is a saviour is predictable but depressing. The number of female students in university and college who chuck their brains and vote on the eye candy principle is depressing.  The number of male students in university, college and prison who cannot wait to legally smoke pot in the parking lot before driving home is astounding. I'm going to start selling photo shopped JT in a Speedo poster sets complete with adam/eve toys, potato chips and other munchies in the orange pass parking lots, and retire in 2 years or less.

Depressing why?

Because someone finally took the time to try and court the under 30 voters that parties have ignored for years because young people don't vote?

Young people engaged in politics, depressing.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Depressing why?

Because someone finally took the time to try and court the under 30 voters that parties have ignored for years because young people don't vote?

Young people engaged in politics, depressing.

Not that they are 'engaged' but over what issues are bringing them TO politics.  Pot, puppies and butterflies.  Nothing of substance, for sure.  Well, not in any numbers worth mentioning.

Todays generation can't get off their smartphones and celebrity following long enough to care or understand things beyond the superficial. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

Depressing why?

Do you think people voting on a single issue like legalizing drugs is a beneficial thing to our country as a whole?

 

[Cloud Cover]

The issues that appear to be bringing them to vote are not politics as we would think about the subject, but politics as they think about it. A chance to get some sugar from the government. Ok, fine that could still be a good thing if what they are thinking about is actually something that is not flashed by Snapchat or a frigging tweet. Read a book for fucks sake's. For a half generation whose older brothers and sisters fought a war - or at least had the opportunity and reason to do so- (Afghanistan) a lot of this crop who were aged between 3 and 6 when 9/11 occurred, appear to choose to not even try to understand and seem to go out of their way to learn nothing but they are sure up to date on yoga wear or how the latest Apple update will make their life better.

Check that. Foreign students- Korean, Indonesian, Malaysian, Chinese, any place from the Middle East and Africa- they pay attention to our politics and culture, and wonder why the sword has not been taken to us yet.             

 

[Remius]

Do you think people voting on a single issue like legalizing drugs is a beneficial thing to our country as a whole?

Can anyone provide any facts as to whether or not that is the case or is this just a guess or an opinion?  Seriously, I'm wondering if there is anything out there that supports this argument?

 

[Altair]

Not that they are 'engaged' but over what issues are bringing them TO politics.  Pot, puppies and butterflies.  Nothing of substance, for sure.  Well, not in any numbers worth mentioning.

Todays generation can't get off their smartphones and celebrity following long enough to care or understand things beyond the superficial.

That dismissive attitude towards young people is the exact reason you don't understand why they voted liberal. Also, if they/we can't get off our smartphones for  anything beyond the superficial I'm sure we wouldn't have found time to stand in line and vote.

So let's ignore the legalization of pot.

Let's ignore the liberals running a possible campaign on hope instead of the negative approach taken by the conservatives.

Let's ignore that the liberals were far more interested in the environment, something young voters care about.

Let's ignore the liberal campaign promises  revolving around helping young Canadians with jobs and post secondary education

Let's ignore the liberals using social media to reach young voters that the conservatives and ndp didn't

Lets ignore that the liberals were not standing for hijab bans and barbaric hotlines,  and that younger Canadians are more in favor of multiculturalism and inclusion.

Yeah, 45 percent of young voters voted for pot, puppies and butterflies. In record numbers not seen since 1997. That makes a heck of a lot more sense.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Can anyone provide any facts as to whether or not that is the case or is this just a guess or an opinion?  Seriously, I'm wondering if there is anything out there that supports this argument?

I'm basing that off a lot of comments I've seen people make on social about never voting before or legalizing pot being the only reason they're voting.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

That dismissive attitude towards young people is the exact reason you don't understand why they voted liberal.

I understand why they voted, don't kid yourself.  It is also the same thing that worries me.  I am not out of touch with todays generation;  I see them exactly for what they are.  Not all of them, but the average one?  Yup.  Fuckin scary.

All of those other things you listed...some of them buzzwords, some of them real issues...are ALL things you and your kids will be paying for over and over again.  I don't want the bill for all the $ the PM and Liberals are handing out, but hey...its just gov money!

The average person forgets the gov $ comes from their pay cheques.  There is no Harry Potter Bottomless Bag of Cash.

How the Liberals succeeded?  A smiling face.  Your "young liberal voters", as I have said before, elected a Prom King, not voted for a federal government.

 

[Altair]

Can anyone provide any facts as to whether or not that is the case or is this just a guess or an opinion?  Seriously, I'm wondering if there is anything out there that supports this argument?

http://clubzone.com/blog/why-canadas-youth-voted-for-trudeau/

Informal 420 person Internet poll

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/spike-in-young-voters-helped-liberals-win-federal-election-report-1.2864902

Employment, student debt key issues for youth

The data suggests lack of employment and the cost of post-secondary education were among the most important issues to young people.

More than 60 per cent of those surveyed said the rising cost of tuition and bleak employment prospects were having a negative impact on their lives.

Only 20 per cent of those who were employed at the time of the survey said they were happy with their job.

And nearly half of respondents said they wouldn’t be able to afford a home within five years of graduating from university or college.

“They were spoken to about those issues very directly by one party,” McDonald said.

During the election, the Liberals’ promise to legalize marijuana was seen by many as a move that would be most popular among young people. But the data shows that the issue was close to the bottom of the list of issues millennials cared about.

The study, conducted by Abacus Data, surveyed 1,000 Canadians in the Feb. 8 to 15.

The company said the numbers are accurate within 3.2 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

 

[Jed]

That dismissive attitude towards young people is the exact reason you don't understand why they voted liberal. Also, if they/we can't get off our smartphones for  anything beyond the superficial I'm sure we wouldn't have found time to stand in line and vote.

So let's ignore the legalization of pot.

Let's ignore the liberals running a possible campaign on hope instead of the negative approach taken by the conservatives.

Let's ignore that the liberals were far more interested in the environment, something young voters care about.

Let's ignore the liberal campaign promises  revolving around helping young Canadians with jobs and post secondary education

Let's ignore the liberals using social media to reach young voters that the conservatives and ndp didn't

Lets ignore that the liberals were not standing for hijab bans and barbaric hotlines,  and that younger Canadians are more in favor of multiculturalism and inclusion.

Yeah, 45 percent of young voters voted for pot, puppies and butterflies. In record numbers not seen since 1997. That makes a heck of a lot more sense.

No one of the Conservative persuasion is ignoring those items on your ignore list.  Generally, it is a matter of hard earned life experience that is being ignored by the current youthful society that has no respect or appreciation of those that did the heavy lifting to make life easier for them.

Pull the baby soother out of your mouth before you talk to your elders and the brain activated earplugs out of your ears and you might learn something.

 

[Altair]

No one of the Conservative persuasion is ignoring those items on your ignore list.  Generally, it is a matter of hard earned life experience that is being ignored by the current youthful society that has no respect or appreciation of those that did the heavy lifting to make life easier for them.

Pull the baby soother out of your mouth before you talk to your elders and the brain activated earplugs out of your ears and you might learn something.

That reminds me.

That whole, just not ready attack ad? Something every young person who has wanted a job or looking for advancement has probably heard before. Too young, just not ready, not enough experience.  That probably didn't help the conservatives with the under 30 voters.