PMO control of the Military

[Lumber]

If DND and the CAF fall under the MND, and the MND answers to parliament and not the PMO, then why do I keep seeing examples of the PMO controlling day to day functions of the CAF? Is it simply because the MND, DMND and CDS are all appointed on the advice of the PM?

 

[Blackadder1916]

If DND and the CAF fall under the MND, and the MND answers to parliament and not the PMO, then why do I keep seeing examples of the PMO controlling day to day functions of the CAF? Is it simply because the MND, DMND and CDS are all appointed on the advice of the PM?

Could you provide examples.

 

[FJAG]

If DND and the CAF fall under the MND, and the MND answers to parliament and not the PMO, then why do I keep seeing examples of the PMO controlling day to day functions of the CAF? Is it simply because the MND, DMND and CDS are all appointed on the advice of the PM?

Your premise is a bit off and misses the point of the separation of the executive, legislative and judicial functions of government.

The MND is a minister who is a member of cabinet-the executive element. Here's an article on what cabinet is. The internal links will let you jump around to fill out your knowledge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_of_Canada

:cheers:

 

[Lumber]

Could you provide examples.

All media releases on deployment are vetted by the PMO before beign released to the public.

I wouldn't be so worried about it if it was being vetted by parliament or some non-paritsan group of government, like the PCO. But the PMO is full of people loyal to the PM as the leader of their political party, not as the PM of Canada. That means media releases by the Forces aren't being vetted based on what Canadian should know, but on what best suits the party in power.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I would not consider media releases on deployments as a "day to day" function of the CAF. Our function is to train and fight. The PR aspect of it is and always has been political, excepting some purely technical data and explanation no one else could provide.

I am more worked up about statements by the PM like the ones he made, that would seem to indicate that he (and/or his government) will increase the naval reserves duties in protecting our coasts and offshore waters. To me that is organization of the day to day duties of the CAF, and belongs with the proper ".com", in consultation with the RCN.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I wouldn't be so worried about it if it was being vetted by parliament or some non-paritsan group of government, like the PCO. But the PMO is full of people loyal to the PM as the leader of their political party, not as the PM of Canada. That means media releases by the Forces aren't being vetted based on what Canadian should know, but on what best suits the party in power.

Also keep in mind that it's not JUST PMO that goes over this kind of material (and DND's not the only folks having stuff go through the sausage machine).

Check this out:

.... The prime minister of Canada is head of the executive branch of the Canadian federal government. The Canadian prime minister provides leadership and direction to government with the support of a cabinet, which the prime minister chooses, the prime minister's office (PMO) of political staff, and the privy council office (PCO) of non-partisan public servants who provide a focal point for the Canadian public service ....

The Guy in Maroon provides "leadership & direction" on what should be done (based on party policy/promises, what the "system" tells him and what government can afford).  The folks in dark green help him/her "make it so" (that's why it's call the "executive" branch).  Maroon Guy & Dark Green folk get general support from two groups in getting things done:  the folks in pink, who are "operationally oriented, but politically aware" (the bureaucrats who are supposed to make sure the right things are done in the right way) and the folks in blue (the folks who are "politically oriented, but operationally aware").  So there's more than one hand massaging things, so to speak.  And the PMO folks have a hand in it because they're supposed to represent "what the people want" (nobody elected the bureaucrats, right?).  How close is this to "what the party wants"?  Discuss  ;D

All this to say, a lot of hands touch stuff before it comes out of the sausage machine.  It's supposed to be a (sometimes tension packed) balancing act.

 

[Tibbson]

All media releases on deployment are vetted by the PMO before beign released to the public.

I wouldn't be so worried about it if it was being vetted by parliament or some non-paritsan group of government, like the PCO. But the PMO is full of people loyal to the PM as the leader of their political party, not as the PM of Canada. That means media releases by the Forces aren't being vetted based on what Canadian should know, but on what best suits the party in power.

You can't say that all DND news releases are vetted by someone in the PMO's office.  I know for a fact that most are not unless they involve some info/opinion on government policy.  Another example is the PAFFO for the MP Group which do not consult outside the CFPMs office unless it involves something that is not law enforcement related.

 

[FJAG]

All media releases on deployment are vetted by the PMO before beign released to the public.

I wouldn't be so worried about it if it was being vetted by parliament or some non-paritsan group of government, like the PCO. But the PMO is full of people loyal to the PM as the leader of their political party, not as the PM of Canada. That means media releases by the Forces aren't being vetted based on what Canadian should know, but on what best suits the party in power.

Whether you call it "information" or "propaganda", media releases are part of the executive's, small "p" political, function.

As leader of the country, the Prime Minister has not only the responsibility to communicate information about important actions (such as military deployments) but also the obligation to ensure that the message properly shapes public opinion to support the national effort. That's what responsible government is all about and in that respect, the Harper government is no different than that of any of his predecessors going back to John A. My all time favourite example is Trudeau Senior at the time of the invocation of the War Measures Act during the 1970 October Crisis when he said in response to a reporter's statement that in a democratic society you don't have people with guns running around: " . . . well there are a lot of bleeding hearts around who just don't like to see people with helmets and guns. All I can say is, go on and bleed, but it is more important to keep law and order in this society than to be worried about weak-kneed people who don't like the looks of a soldier's helmet." And when asked how far he would go replied: "Just watch me". Now those are media lines!  ;D (And I don't even like Trudeau but I respected his actions there)

"The PCO serves as the policy-oriented but politically-sensitive advisory unit to the Prime Minister, while the PMO is politically-oriented but policy-sensitive." The PCO's advice should be non-partisan (but I've seen too many Yes, Prime Minister episodes to believe it's non-partisan when the issue strikes at the heart of the civil services's rice bowls.) How the PM balances the PCO's advice with that received from his large "P" political advisors is for him to decide.

Do you really believe that parliament has the ability to draw all its various partisan and large "P" Political  :clown: s together to create a single all-inclusive media release?  especially about military deployments? I sure don't.

If I was deploying I also wouldn't want a non-partisan media release come out of the PCO--I would want a fire and brimstones speech from the PM letting me know that the government and the nation's people believed in what I was about to do and stood four-square behind me.  :2c:

:cheers: