It's been forwarded to DMPAP I've been told. It's seems a bit ridiculous that a title change with no change in pay results in -10,000 charge and over 55% of my income this year is gone to federal tax all of a sudden. There's no need to re pay me what I've already received exactly. Now I get to spend the next year under financial hardship while the staff who messed everything up keep collecting their proper pay and couldn't care less, and will continue to do their jobs wrong without repercussion
Phoenix Pay System - Shit's Horrible
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If I understand what happened, this sounds like a clerk working to make an amendment at their level, rather than pushing it to someone with Correction mode access.
The acts of cancelling and republishing the promotion each triggered a pay action - the first to recover the acting pay, the second to reissue it.
I think the better approach probably would have been to have a senior clerk with Correction mode access to change the data in the promotion row from Acting to Substantive, which would not have triggered CCPS action. That said, I'm not positive whether such a change is possible.
The acts of cancelling and republishing the promotion each triggered a pay action - the first to recover the acting pay, the second to reissue it.
I think the better approach probably would have been to have a senior clerk with Correction mode access to change the data in the promotion row from Acting to Substantive, which would not have triggered CCPS action. That said, I'm not positive whether such a change is possible.
What will DMPAP do now then? How can I possibly be on the hook for 10,000$ because a clerk forgot to make me substantive three years ago and my pay in no way changed
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Again stressing that I don't have access the systems in question, and thus this could be 100% wrong, DMPAP may be able to manually intervene in your pay file and delete the two pay actions.
Your situation is uncommon, and I don't think the UPK for Guardian covers it. Clerks don't generally have detailed knowledge and training in unusual situations, nor detailed knowledge in the potential implications of cancelling and republishing a rank change that affects multiple taxation years.
Your situation is uncommon, and I don't think the UPK for Guardian covers it. Clerks don't generally have detailed knowledge and training in unusual situations, nor detailed knowledge in the potential implications of cancelling and republishing a rank change that affects multiple taxation years.
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18 pages so far. Are the problems we see in this forum still ongoing? How many OR's are affected by ongoing problems with Phoenix?
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One thing to remember is that CAF pay does not use Phoenix, The CAF uses a different pay system(s). DND public employees use Phoenix.
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Cheers.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
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daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Rising from the ashes on a $B pile of cash 
The federal government is looking to spend over $1 billion by 2025 on its system for getting public servants their paycheques as it works to fix ongoing issues with the Phoenix program that’s hit thousands with troublesome pay issues in the past several years.
The 2023 federal budget released Tuesday outlines about $1.38 billion in money — $517 million this year and $521 million in 2024-25 — for Public Services and Procurement Canada to keep up with its current staffing level within the federal pay centre to work on pay system transactions.
Seven years since the Phoenix pay system fiasco began, federal public service workers across Canada have dealt with issues such as overpayments and missing payments due to issues with the pay system, a problem that has prompted concern among federal labour unions.
To date, the government has paid at least $700 million in damages, with a number of class-action lawsuits and issues related to the pay system still unresolved. No details were outlined in the federal budget for compensating public servants for damages.
The funding in this year’s budget is also being used to periodically assess the progress of Phoenix generally and address the current backlog within the pay centre.
About a million transactions are managed by the pay centre per year. As of February 2023, Public Services and Procurement was dealing with a backlog of 208,000 unresolved pay transactions. At its peak, the government department faced a backlog of about 380,000 cases in January 2018.
The Public Service Alliance of Canada (PSAC) recently indicated that a major issue workers continue to face is notices from the government that they’ve been overpaid. Last month, the union said an estimated 37,000-plus current and former public service workers were to receive an overpayment letter in the coming months, noting that 10,000 federal public service workers received notices of overpayments last year.
PSAC’s national president, Chris Aylward, previously said that the blame for overpayments rests entirely on the government’s shoulders. The union stated that notices of overpayments can be devastating to workers, as they may struggle to repay the costs due to inflation. It argued that letters are often unclear and provide little details about the overpayment itself.
The days of Phoenix might, however, be on their way out.
According to the budget document, an additional $52 million in funding is being provided to Shared Services Canada to continue work on exploring a potential “next-generation” pay program to replace the Phoenix system.
For the past few years, the government has been looking into what type of system could work for the public service, mainly considering options to move to a program with fewer options for customization. That’s because of the variety of staff within the federal public service and the number of people working under different collective agreements.
The feds are considering Ceridian and its Dayforce system, with testing being done across government departments to see how pay can be better administered for all types of workers, including those doing shift and contract work.
The decision on whether the government will adopt Ceridian’s platform, go in a different direction or maintain its current system has yet to be made.
Funding is also being provided to the Treasury Board Secretariat to continue ensuring, as the core public service employer, that there is “sufficient capacity to oversee human resources, pay and pension matters,” as outlined in the budget.
Feds plan to spend $1 billion on maintaining public servant pay system over two years as they try to fix Phoenix issues.
Feds plan to spend $1 billion on maintaining public servant pay system over two years as they try to fix Phoenix issues
The government has also planned spending on its look into a system to replace PhoenixThe federal government is looking to spend over $1 billion by 2025 on its system for getting public servants their paycheques as it works to fix ongoing issues with the Phoenix program that’s hit thousands with troublesome pay issues in the past several years.
The 2023 federal budget released Tuesday outlines about $1.38 billion in money — $517 million this year and $521 million in 2024-25 — for Public Services and Procurement Canada to keep up with its current staffing level within the federal pay centre to work on pay system transactions.
Seven years since the Phoenix pay system fiasco began, federal public service workers across Canada have dealt with issues such as overpayments and missing payments due to issues with the pay system, a problem that has prompted concern among federal labour unions.
To date, the government has paid at least $700 million in damages, with a number of class-action lawsuits and issues related to the pay system still unresolved. No details were outlined in the federal budget for compensating public servants for damages.
The funding in this year’s budget is also being used to periodically assess the progress of Phoenix generally and address the current backlog within the pay centre.
About a million transactions are managed by the pay centre per year. As of February 2023, Public Services and Procurement was dealing with a backlog of 208,000 unresolved pay transactions. At its peak, the government department faced a backlog of about 380,000 cases in January 2018.
The Public Service Alliance of Canada (PSAC) recently indicated that a major issue workers continue to face is notices from the government that they’ve been overpaid. Last month, the union said an estimated 37,000-plus current and former public service workers were to receive an overpayment letter in the coming months, noting that 10,000 federal public service workers received notices of overpayments last year.
PSAC’s national president, Chris Aylward, previously said that the blame for overpayments rests entirely on the government’s shoulders. The union stated that notices of overpayments can be devastating to workers, as they may struggle to repay the costs due to inflation. It argued that letters are often unclear and provide little details about the overpayment itself.
The days of Phoenix might, however, be on their way out.
According to the budget document, an additional $52 million in funding is being provided to Shared Services Canada to continue work on exploring a potential “next-generation” pay program to replace the Phoenix system.
For the past few years, the government has been looking into what type of system could work for the public service, mainly considering options to move to a program with fewer options for customization. That’s because of the variety of staff within the federal public service and the number of people working under different collective agreements.
The feds are considering Ceridian and its Dayforce system, with testing being done across government departments to see how pay can be better administered for all types of workers, including those doing shift and contract work.
The decision on whether the government will adopt Ceridian’s platform, go in a different direction or maintain its current system has yet to be made.
Funding is also being provided to the Treasury Board Secretariat to continue ensuring, as the core public service employer, that there is “sufficient capacity to oversee human resources, pay and pension matters,” as outlined in the budget.
Feds plan to spend $1 billion on maintaining public servant pay system over two years as they try to fix Phoenix issues.
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Potentially huge decision about crown debts. If not appealed, or upheld by the Federal Court (and, let's face it, GoC will fit to the SCC if necessary) provincial legislation will apply to recovery periods - and in Ontario, that's two years, not six.
decisions.fpslreb-crtespf.gc.ca
St-Onge v. National Research Council of Canada - Federal Public Sector Labour Relations and Employment Board
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Can the people affected by Phoenix, bring a class action against the government, without the unions etc being involved?
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No, the applicable federal legislation prevents that.
If they could it would have been initiated by now.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Oh sure they do...
The federal government is accelerating plans to put the Phoenix public service pay system out of its misery.
Launched in 2016, the system — which cost taxpayers nearly $4 billion — has failed regularly to deliver public servants' paycheques on time, or in the right amounts.
According to the government's latest tally, more than 300,000 of 425,000 Phoenix transactions had failed to meet service standards as of last month — including 213,000 that were more than a year late.
Alex Benay, the federal official responsible for the file, said $135 million set aside in this year's budget will give a big boost to the development of Dayforce, the system which is expected to replace Phoenix in the coming years.
"We had really good news, in the sense that the government trusts our plan," he told Radio-Canada.
Ottawa getting ready to ditch costly, error-prone Phoenix pay system
'The government trusts our plan,' says a senior bureaucrat
The federal government is accelerating plans to put the Phoenix public service pay system out of its misery.
Launched in 2016, the system — which cost taxpayers nearly $4 billion — has failed regularly to deliver public servants' paycheques on time, or in the right amounts.
According to the government's latest tally, more than 300,000 of 425,000 Phoenix transactions had failed to meet service standards as of last month — including 213,000 that were more than a year late.
Alex Benay, the federal official responsible for the file, said $135 million set aside in this year's budget will give a big boost to the development of Dayforce, the system which is expected to replace Phoenix in the coming years.
"We had really good news, in the sense that the government trusts our plan," he told Radio-Canada.
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As I recall Benay came to government, quit to go to industry, then left industry to return to government. Not reassuring...
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I trust them completely.
A promise from a public servant is inviolate, right?
A promise from a public servant is inviolate, right?
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"Dayforce"
Sounds like a program that will work excellent for any worker on a standard M-F, 9-5 schedule. Shift workers, nonstandard schedules, OT etc. meh, how many of those exceptions could there be /s
Sounds like a program that will work excellent for any worker on a standard M-F, 9-5 schedule. Shift workers, nonstandard schedules, OT etc. meh, how many of those exceptions could there be /s
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
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It's an integrated pay / HR system currently employed in a variety of different use cases in Industry and government.
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