Pharmacy Officer

[Simplicity319]

Hi guys 

I've been a lurker on these forums for a while now...reading your posts has been useful and informative for me. It really helped me understand what military is like, and helped me to understand what my boyfriend is going through. I just have a quick question that I can't seem to really find an answer on the Canadian Forces website or on this forum.  My boyfriend's enrolled under the ROTP as a pharmacy student, and this summer he's off to do his Military Occupational Training...I was wondering if anybody knows how long that trainng is. I know it differs for different specialties, but a general range would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[FDO]

If he is doing BMOQ it will be 14 weeks. If he is doing some trades training it will be from the time school is out in April until school is back in September, minus any annual leave he wants to take.

 

[Simplicity319]

Oh he did his BMOQ last summer...so I'm just wondering how long the "trades training" portion is. It seems like I can't find the answer anywhere on the CF website!

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Well if he is a pharmacist and he already did BMOQ I am assuming that he is going on an OJT this summer, OJT means On Job Training

Most likely he will be spending a few months posted to a pharmacy within the CF learning the ropes of being a Pharmacist in the CF.  On that note, I was not aware that Pharmacy was open to candidates under the ROTP program. 

 

[Simplicity319]

He's not a pharmacist yet =P Just a pharmacy student. And yes the ROTP for pharmacy officer is offered to students (it is a job that's in demand, according to the site). Ah, so it'll look like this on the job training will take the bulk of the summer, as with BMOQ. Thanks for the info guys!

 

[Sigil]

I hope this is an appropriate place to ask this. I was looking through the CF pharmacist profile and saw that pharmacists have an "advantageous rate of pay." Since pharms are neither docs nor dentists and aren't on the MO/DO payscales, can someone tell me what this advantageous rate of pay might be?

 

[Chilme]

Here's a start:

Effective April 1, 2007, a pharmacist enrolling as a “Direct Entry Officer” may be offered a recruiting allowance of up to $50,000 depending on the difference between the number of existing trained military pharmacists and the desired number. The amount will be set out in the offer message, which the applicant will have 30 days to accept. In addition, pharmacists are enrolled with a rank of captain and an advantageous rate of pay. The applicant must agree to undertake 4 years of obligatory service.

Effective April 1, 2007, a pharmacy student enrolling under the “Regular Officer Training Plan” may be offered a recruiting allowance. The amount of the allowance varies according to the number of months of publicly subsidized education the student must undergo prior to becoming licensed as follows:

36 months or more : $10,000
more than 24 months but less than 36 months: $20,000
more than 12 months but less than 24 months: $30,000
less than 12 months: $40,000 (or $50,000 if there is a severe shortage of pharmacists at that point)
In addition, a candidate is provided with an officer cadet's rank and salary, and payment for tuition, instruments, supplies, and books. During the summer months, candidates undergo officer training. The applicant must agree to undertake 4 years of obligatory service.

 

[Gunner98]

This is what you are looking for: http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pub/cbi-dra/204-eng.asp

204.03(10) (Rate of pay – Military Chaplain or Pharmacy Training Plan) After July 2008, an officer, other than an officer paid under CBI 204.21 (Pay – Officers – General Officers, Colonels and General Service Officers), who is enrolled in the Military Chaplain or Pharmacy Training Plan, shall be paid as a General Service Officer at the rate of pay for the rank of captain in CBI 204.21 at the pay increment determined under CBI 204.015 (Pay Increments).

So Pharmacists (and Chaplains) in training are paid the same rate as a Capt non-pharmacist.

 

[dapaterson]

However, former professional experience can be recognized with increased pay increments on completion of military training.

As well, the military pays for licensing, insurnace, and ongoing professional development fvor pharmacists, and provides a defined benefit pension plan; one has to look at the overall compensation package, and not only the pay scale.

 

[Sigil]

Thanks for the replies guys. I think Simian Turner did find what I was looking for. I assume what they mean by a pharmacist in training is one who has graduated from school and met licensing requirements?

 

[Gunner98]

Yes, and you would be paid as a Capt while you are undergoing general military training such as Basic Field Health Services course and Basic Health Care Admin course.

Candidates who enrolled under the Direct Entry plan will be commissioned as Officer Cadets, but paid as Second Lieutenants. Upon successful completion of Basic Training, they will be promoted to the rank of Captain, and paid as a Captain backdated to their date of enrolment, minus any Leave Without Pay.  http://www.forces.ca/en/job/pharmacyofficer-48#education-2

 

[Rocknroll]

I think pharmacists should be paid more. I suspect a major reason why the CF is finding it difficult to attract pharmacists is because they aren't paid comparably to their civilian counterparts. I also think the ROTP program is not very attractive to pharmacy students. How are you supposed to convince someone who is likely in their early 20s or older, has done at least a year or two in university -- and maybe has a degree -- to agree to an Officer Cadet salary? It's not really enough to live on in cities like Toronto or Vancouver, and they lose out on higher paying work in the summer due to CF obligations. I get that it's not all about the money, but it has to be at least a little about the money...look at the salaries MOTP/DOTP students enjoy.

 

[Neill McKay]

Does ROTP not also cover the cost of living in residence?

 

[Occam]

I think pharmacists should be paid more. I suspect a major reason why the CF is finding it difficult to attract pharmacists is because they aren't paid comparably to their civilian counterparts. I also think the ROTP program is not very attractive to pharmacy students. How are you supposed to convince someone who is likely in their early 20s or older, has done at least a year or two in university -- and maybe has a degree -- to agree to an Officer Cadet salary? It's not really enough to live on in cities like Toronto or Vancouver, and they lose out on higher paying work in the summer due to CF obligations. I get that it's not all about the money, but it has to be at least a little about the money...look at the salaries MOTP/DOTP students enjoy.

If someone is coming in off the street straight out of high school into the ROTP pharmacy program, then you're getting a fully subsidized university education and OCdt salary - who else gives you that?

If someone already has a degree, but is choosing to not use it and enters ROTP under the pharmacy program, then the above also applies - why should you get a higher salary when you aren't working in your previous "chosen" field?

MOTP/DOTP students have already completed degree programs in the process of becoming medical students, and are using the knowledge and skills acquired during the undergraduate degree - therefore, they would deserve a higher salary.

 

[MedCorps]

Does ROTP not also cover the cost of living in residence?

Not if you are going to a civilian university.

MC 

 

[PD]

I already have a degree. I would like to consider becoming a pharmacist.  Currently I am an NCM.
How would I go about this.
a) Do I apply for a University before hand and get accepted?
b) Would I just request through CoC to apply?

 

[ballz]

Not if you are going to a civilian university.

MC

Not if you are going to RMC either. If you go to RMC you pay for R&Q.

I think pharmacists should be paid more. I suspect a major reason why the CF is finding it difficult to attract pharmacists is because they aren't paid comparably to their civilian counterparts. I also think the ROTP program is not very attractive to pharmacy students. How are you supposed to convince someone who is likely in their early 20s or older, has done at least a year or two in university -- and maybe has a degree -- to agree to an Officer Cadet salary? It's not really enough to live on in cities like Toronto or Vancouver, and they lose out on higher paying work in the summer due to CF obligations. I get that it's not all about the money, but it has to be at least a little about the money...look at the salaries MOTP/DOTP students enjoy.

Biased much?

You think people with "a year or two in university" are being ripped off getting paid 20k or more a year, plus tuition/books/supplies (which can easily be another 10k a year)? And if they live in Toronto/Vancouver they enjoy ~10-12k a year PLD as well... You think someone with "a year or two in university" can make substantially more than that on the civie side?

Even many degrees, as some unfortunate arts and business students find out, will not get you 40k a year starting out. So, even if they have a degree already, they still might not be making more in the civilian world, plus they'd actually have to work as opposed to just going to school.

Pharmacists Pharmacist students aren't that special. They're being offered one generous signing bonus more than most GSOs already. You're right the frig outta 'er if you think they should be getting the same deals as Medical Os.

 

[Occam]

I already have a degree. I would like to consider becoming a pharmacist.  Currently I am an NCM.
How would I go about this.
a) Do I apply for a University before hand and get accepted?
b) Would I just request through CoC to apply?

Neither.

Look around for "UTPNCM".

 

[medicineman]

I think pharmacists should be paid more. I suspect a major reason why the CF is finding it difficult to attract pharmacists is because they aren't paid comparably to their civilian counterparts.

I liken stuff like that to people that think MO's don't make that much money compared to their civilian counterparts - if you're a pharmacist or GDMO in the military, your salary is yours - you have no overhead to pay like rent and salary for staff, etc.  Gross pay might not work out, but they tend to net an awful lot more.

And BTW, anyone going to school would kill to have everything paid for AND make a salary at the same time AND be debt free at the end of it all - again, more money in their pockets.  Give your head a shake.

MM

 

[dapaterson]

Entry-level pharmacy jobs in the private sector are late hours and low pay - you're the one working the desirable midnight to 8am shift for barely above minimum wage.

A military pharmacist at age 40 will likely be a mid-ranking major, pulling in over 100K income, plus pension, plus a benefits package.  On deployments overseas, additional allowances are paid, plus there's the possiblity that your pay (or a portion of it) will be tax free.

The military also pays for your licensing and practice insurance; pays for your ongoing training; offers other professional development opportunities such as paid studies with a masters in health management or an MBA.


You are correct - the pay for a military pharmacist isn't competitive with the private sector.  It's head and shoulders above.