Perun: The Race for 6th Generation Fighters - Drones, Lasers & Future Air Dominance

[dimsum]

Perun is an Australian who got famous covering the Ukraine conflict. He's since branched out to other military topics.

At 10:55, he presents one of the best "laymans terms" reasons for the F-35 vs F-18/Gripen/etc - Networking and Information Fusion.

 

[Good2Golf]

“Nothing’s more expensive than a 2nd-place airforce…”.

 

[dimsum]

“Nothing’s more expensive than a 2nd-place airforce…”.

"It's like trying to race in the F1 with a Ford Model T"

Mild "spoilers" but some of those 6th Gen "fighters" will really test the egos of current fast-jet folks. It'll be more like an AWACS - a pilot driving the bus, and some ACSOs or ABMs controlling the uncrewed combat units.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

There was some interesting speculation that some 6th gen fighters might actually look like a current bomber, with a crew of 2-4, just to control the RPAS, do EW, etc. Very interesting ideas.

 

[GR66]

There was some interesting speculation that some 6th gen fighters might actually look like a current bomber, with a crew of 2-4, just to control the RPAS, do EW, etc. Very interesting ideas.

Sounds like it should be two separate programs...a 6th Generation Fighter and a stealthy forward-deployable Airborne Command and Control aircraft. Trying to fit both roles into a single aircraft might require too many compromises to be totally dominant in either one.

 

[dapaterson]

"It's like trying to race in the F1 with a Ford Model T"

Mild "spoilers" but some of those 6th Gen "fighters" will really test the egos of current fast-jet folks. It'll be more like an AWACS - a pilot driving the bus, and some ACSOs or ABMs controlling the uncrewed combat units.

Aurora Block IX?

 

[Good2Golf]

Sounds like it should be two separate programs...a 6th Generation Fighter and a stealthy forward-deployable Airborne Command and Control aircraft. Trying to fit both roles into a single aircraft might require too many compromises to be totally dominant in either one.

What is/will be a ‘fighter?’

Thinking beyond an aerial pissing contest is where some/many are thinking/envisioning.

 

[dimsum]

What is/will be a ‘fighter?’

Thinking beyond an aerial pissing contest is where some/many are thinking/envisioning.

Agreed.

Assuming this trend continues, the "dashing fighter pilot engaging in dogfights at close range" will no longer be a thing - if it even is a thing now with BVR AAMs. Why wouldn't fighters just launch AAMs at the edge of detection and run back?

I think of an (not great) analogy like the last cavalry charges - Cavalry officers rushing into battle on horses in 1914, later to become tanks working as a multi-crew platform by 1917.

 

[GR66]

What is/will be a ‘fighter?’

Thinking beyond an aerial pissing contest is where some/many are thinking/envisioning.

Agree 100% that with all the new technologies and with Manned-Unmanned Teaming a Fighter doesn't have to be a "Fighter"...but seeing the mock-ups that have been shown for these projects to date it seems like that memo hasn't yet made it to the design teams.

I'm picturing something more like a scaled down B-21 Airborne Command and Control aircraft teamed with something similar to the 747 Arsenal Ship idea from decades ago. A large airliner that can act as a mother ship launching a series of UAVs to be controlled by the 6th Gen aircraft possibly?

 

[dimsum]

Agree 100% that with all the new technologies and with Manned-Unmanned Teaming a Fighter doesn't have to be a "Fighter"...but seeing the mock-ups that have been shown for these projects to date it seems like that memo hasn't yet made it to the design teams.

Folks go with what they know.

Additionally, the GOFOs that the design teams are trying to convince are presumably fighter folks. It would take a lot to convince them that the next generation should not be like what they grew up flying.

I'm not saying that said GOFOs can't change their line of thinking, but the design teams may also be thinking "we need to convince an F-15 driver to pay us, so let's give them a better F-15".

 

[Good2Golf]

Ironically, the USAF-NGAD looks like the most forward thinking capability development stream…

 

[CBH99]

Aurora Block IX?

A 3rd Gen aircraft that’s been upgraded/modified to operate 6th Gen UCAV’s and such?

Now that’s a scary idea that I could actually see coming to fruition for us, if the “just ignore everything & keep upgrading the 140!” crowd doesn’t move along sometime soon…

 

[dimsum]

Now that’s a scary idea that I could actually see coming to fruition for us, if the “just ignore everything & keep upgrading the 140!” crowd doesn’t move along sometime soon…

This is my guess only, but I would suggest that having articles publicly out about replacing the Aurora is a signal that keeping the CP-140 isn't the intended COA.

 

[CBH99]

This is my guess only, but I would suggest that having articles publicly out about replacing the Aurora is a signal that keeping the CP-140 isn't the intended COA.

Oh I agree! It isn’t the intended COA…

(My post was mostly tongue in cheek)

 

[armrdsoul77]

The 8th generation N.Korea biplane sounds quite exciting.

 

[Good2Golf]

USAF’s 6th Gen NGAD apparently has already flown…

NGAD Is Born: The Air Force’s 6th Gen Stealth Fighter is Already Flying