Penticton Reservist (?): "It's time to end Afghanistan war"

[George Wallace]

CountDC

Could I ask you for your opinion on these words:

Our ‘Rodney Dangerfield’ Prime Minister Stephen Harper with his ‘Canada can’t get no respect without a more muscular military and foreign policy’ comments compares with the quote, “I need 1,000 dead in order to take a seat at the conference of champions.” That puts Harper in good company with the Italian fascist dictator Benito Mussolini, who made that statement to justify the Italian war in Abyssinia.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/okanagan_similkameen/pentictonwesternnews/opinion/letters/27497089.html

Harper is quoted as saying, “You have to put an end date on these things,... We intend to end it.” Don’t count on it. For those of you who are soldiers, don’t bet your lives on it. Stephen Harper is not a leader. He is a follower — of George W. Bush.

When it’s 2010 or 2011 and if Stephen Harper is Prime Minister and either President Barack Obama or John McCain (it doesn’t matter which, both have pledged more troops to Afghanistan) say to Harper, “The situation in Afghanistan is worse than ever, we need the support of Canada”, Harper will reply in a loud and clear voice, “How many, how soon and for how long?” Harper will once again break another promise and escalate Canada’s military commitment to the Afghan war beyond this current ‘definite’ end date.

After all this sacrifice, do you think our ‘great leader’ Stephen Harper is going to ask for a more favorable lumber trade deal from the U.S.? How much more Canadian oil and blood is our ‘great leader’ going to continue to give the U.S.? Then there is our Arctic waterway and its ocean floor, let us not forget our water — anything else for our ‘great leader’ to give away? How about our national identity?

Whenever we send bullets, bombs, rockets, missiles, artillery shells and tanks their way, we all look like detestable murderous ‘feringhees’ (can be translated as ‘scumbags’) to the Afghans. They are not going to differentiate whether the soldiers behind them are American, Canadian or ‘Plutonians’, for that matter. When someone has destroyed your house and murdered your family, would you?

http://www.bclocalnews.com/okanagan_similkameen/pentictonwesternnews/opinion/letters/28673889.html

 

[CountDC]

There is a bond between soldiers and society that we must never break, and that is our duty to do what we are told, when we are told providing its legal. Cpl Demetrick has broken that by lieing to the press and acting as an agent for our enemy, perhaps unwittingly.

I do not see the connection. We have a duty to follow legal orders - what order did he not follow? Was he under orders not to state information that he may actually believe (yes some people do believe the crap)?

We may be talking about someone that parades once a week for 9/10 months and has no real knowledge of what is happening.  He has read things, heard things and been told things through various media, friends and other associates that he probably spends more time with. Some of this info is going to be wrong and some right.  Obviously he, for some reason, has chosen to believe the wrong source. Breaking a sacred trust - no, being stupid - I go with yes. I still go with RMS talk, unit Afghan Vets chat and maybe even if he is willing a tour of Afghan to see first hand. Perhaps the need is education instead of persecution. Then again he may be plain dumb and then you can fall back on the gentle persuassion to leave.

 

[George Wallace]

I do not see the connection. We have a duty to follow legal orders - what order did he not follow? Was he under orders not to state information that he may actually believe (yes some people do believe the crap)?

Well.  He is subject to the NDA as well as the various Security Regulations.  The least he should have practiced is CONFIDENTUALITY.  Just because he may have heard something, truefully or falsely passed in conversation or written form, does not dictate that he pass on that information.  This guy is a Security Risk, due to his recent actions.  Once again, one can argue whether or not Open Source and material that may not be Classified can be openly passed to others freely.  Anything with a Classification, including Unclassified, constitutes a Security Breach should it be passed to those unauthorized to receive it.  This fellow obviously doesn't pay any attention to any of these facts.  If nothing eles, he has proved to all and sundry that he can not be Trusted, nor keep anything in confidence.  Who would want to employ such a person?

 

[CountDC]

CountDC

Could I ask you for your opinion on these words:
http://www.bclocalnews.com/okanagan_similkameen/pentictonwesternnews/opinion/letters/27497089.html
http://www.bclocalnews.com/okanagan_similkameen/pentictonwesternnews/opinion/letters/28673889.html

OK - my personnal opinion is that the writer overall has a different opinion than me although there is one point that I agree with - don't bet your life on us pulling out in 2011. Regardless of who is serving as PM at that time things could happen to change the date. I go with Afghan will go on until everyone is home.

 

[OldSolduer]

I disagree with you Count DC. His public lying about WP and mass Afghan civilian casualties tells me he will not be there for his fellow soldiers when needed.
By the way CountDC, in case you missed this, my son died in Afghanistan. This so called "soldier" is not fit to wear the same uniform he did. He has broken a sacred trust. His "stupidity" is no excuse.
Pardon me if I seem harsh, but if people don't like that, too bad. This "soldier" has given the enemy a propaganda victory by his lying to the press.

 

[CountDC]

Well.  He is subject to the NDA as well as the various Security Regulations.  The least he should have practiced is CONFIDENTUALITY.  Just because he may have heard something, truefully or falsely passed in conversation or written form, does not dictate that he pass on that information.  This guy is a Security Risk, due to his recent actions.  Once again, one can argue whether or not Open Source and material that may not be Classified can be openly passed to others freely.  Anything with a Classification, including Unclassified, constitutes a Security Breach should it be passed to those unauthorized to receive it.  This fellow obviously doesn't pay any attention to any of these facts.  If nothing eles, he has proved to all and sundry that he can not be Trusted, nor keep anything in confidence.  Who would want to employ such a person?

No where does it state that he has revealed any official documentation or information. What he has done was wrote an opinion letter full of false info that he may actually believe. Nothing in NDA or Security Regulations so far has come up that can be applied to him. Security risk for voicing opinion?  Don't think that one will sail. Trusted - don't know him but his friends may find him highly turustworthy. Want to employ him?  Is he a good worker? Reliable? I wouldn't hire someone on their political views as lots of good people do not agree with me politically.

 

[George Wallace]

No where does it state that he has revealed any official documentation or information. What he has done was wrote an opinion letter full of false info that he may actually believe. Nothing in NDA or Security Regulations so far has come up that can be applied to him. Security risk for voicing opinion?  Don't think that one will sail. Trusted - don't know him but his friends may find him highly turustworthy. Want to employ him?  Is he a good worker? Reliable? I wouldn't hire someone on their political views as lots of good people do not agree with me politically.

OK.  My head is spinning on that one.  Can you clarify what that is all about?  I am confused. 

He overstepped his bounds by claiming to be a Cpl and claiming to have knowledge of events taking place during a CF operation.  Excuse me, but this is not a trivial matter as you seem to want to make it.  This person can not be trusted with the lowest form of security, CONFIDENTIALITY, or simply keeping his mouth shut. 

He is not a WHISTLE BLOWER.  He is a blabber mouth who has passed on false information as fact.  He is characteristic of the employee who stands at the watercooler all day, and is totally unproductive, and perhaps disruptive and subversive.  I wouldn't want him around.  I wouldn't hire him.

 

[CountDC]

I disagree with you Count DC. His public lying about WP and mass Afghan civilian casualties tells me he will not be there for his fellow soldiers when needed.
By the way CountDC, in case you missed this, my son died in Afghanistan. This so called "soldier" is not fit to wear the same uniform he did. He has broken a sacred trust. His "stupidity" is no excuse.
Pardon me if I seem harsh, but if people don't like that, too bad. This "soldier" has given the enemy a propaganda victory by his lying to the press.

Of course you disagree - that is already obvious. Will he be there for his fellow soldier? Have no way of knowing that but often people that were conscentious objectors would pick up the rifle and shoot when their life was on the line. No, I did not miss about your son, which slants your view of things and perhaps clouds it. He still did not break a sacred trust.  Stupidity is not an excuse its a reason. Taking physical action rather than attempting to educate does not solve the problem. If we educate we may end with a good soldier or at least someone that has a more understanding point of view. If we resort to simple violence or booting out then the same person is out there with the same view and more ammo to use against us. Good headlines

I was physically assaulted by military because of my political views

Military discharges member due to political view not in line with sitting government.

This is a case that must be dealt with properly or we are ultimately hurting ourselves.  Correction first, if that fails then gentle persuasion to find work somewhere else.

 

[Franko]

I disagree with you Count DC. His public lying about WP and mass Afghan civilian casualties tells me he will not be there for his fellow soldiers when needed.
By the way CountDC, in case you missed this, my son died in Afghanistan. This so called "soldier" is not fit to wear the same uniform he did. He has broken a sacred trust. His "stupidity" is no excuse.
Pardon me if I seem harsh, but if people don't like that, too bad. This "soldier" has given the enemy a propaganda victory by his lying to the press.

CountDC,

Just to add (not detract anything OS said) that there are plenty of troops who are members on this site who either have served or are currently serving here right now, myself included.

Some members of Army.ca have also been killed (see the Fallen Members section)

The asshat (one of our own no less) pretty much spit in our faces by calling us murderers, liars, monsters....hence the emotional responses here.

You're defending someone who deserves a throatpunch.

Regards

 

[George Wallace]

OK

This guy would have to have some sort of Security Clearance, the minimum being the Reliability Status that he signed on joining the Reserves.  This is the part that is a stickler with some of us:

Part B of the Security Screening Certificate (TBS 330-47) that he had to sign

PART B   BRIEFING SUMMARY

The individual named herein is authorized access to the level of information/assets indicated above when there is a work related need.

If an individual fails to safeguard, releases without appropriate authority or uses information/assets for unauthorized purposes, such action may constitute a contravention of the Security of Information Act, the Access to Information Act, the Privacy Act or other Acts of Parliament, a breach of the Government Security Policy or the Oath of Secrecy.   These provisions apply both during and after service to the Government of Canada.  Specific safeguards are identified in the Government Security Policy and Standards and in corresponding departmental or organizational policies which apply to classified and protected information/assets.  These safeguards must be applied.  

Classified or protected information/assets must be returned immediately to the appropriate institutional authority when notification is given that the person named herein no longer requires access to such information/assets.

PART C    ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

I understand and agree to comply with the above statutory and administrative requirements.


________________________________________________________________________

 

[PMedMoe]

Maybe this guy should do more reading and less writing.

Duty With Honour

 

[LineDoggie]

I'm sure you dont need to hear this from a Yank, but you know better than I that the Men & Women of the CF arent War Criminals by any means.  My Friends currently serving in Afghanistan have said how impressed they are with your Troops. We have our share of such asshats like this Person who spout all manner of BullShite to the media.

We used to deal with such miscreants with some Heartfelt Counseling behind the Armory. E-tools were usually involved

 

[dapaterson]

OK

This guy would have to have some sort of Security Clearance, the minimum being the Reliability Status that he signed on joining the Reserves.  This is the part that is a stickler with some of us:

Part B of the Security Screening Certificate (TBS 330-47) that he had to sign

(cut for brevity)

And, per that certificate, it is possible he may face charges under one of the acts listed - but not the NDA - therefore not the CSD - therefore not a court martial.

 

[muskrat89]

Defending the indefendable is only making an emotional topic worse. He didn't "offer an opinion" - he stated information about ongoing operations (without permission, I assume) that is false.

I'm locking this for 24 hours.

Army.ca Staff

 

[muskrat89]

I'm going to unlock this. We will be keeping an eye on it - please keep things civil.

Read your post over before you hit the "Reply" button. This is a highly charged topic - if you can't keep your emotions in check, please consider Read Only.

Thanks.
Army.ca Staff

Now, that being said, some more fuel, courtesy of a link sent to me by Redeye.

Take a deep breath...
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/515094

 

[CountDC]

Maybe this guy should do more reading and less writing.

Duty With Honour

less reading and writing, more listening to the vets from his unit that have been there.

 

[Strike]

Was there not a CANFORGEN put out when the election was called?

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/79919.0.html

Would not ALL members of the CF be expected to follow this CANFORGEN, including reservists?  I'm not at work so can't get access to it easily.  Maybe someone else can find it.

 

[Haggis]

Was there not a CANFORGEN put out when the election was called?

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/79919.0.html

Would not ALL members of the CF be expected to follow this CANFORGEN, including reservists?  I'm not at work so can't get access to it easily.  Maybe someone else can find it.

No restrictive CANFORGEN was issued.  The cyclical one (CANFORGEN 165/08) reminding DND civilian employees of the rules for seeking ANY elected office and the one reminfding managers of the requirement to give employees time to vote (CANFORGEN 184/08).  CANELECTGEN 007/08 was released on 10 Sep 08 to ensure all CF electors were properly given thier opportunity to vote and describing the process that would allow this to happen.

 

[Strike]

No restrictive CANFORGEN was issued.  The cyclical one (CANFORGEN 165/08) reminding DND civilian employees of the rules for seeking ANY elected office and the one reminfding managers of the requirement to give employees time to vote (CANFORGEN 184/08).  CANELECTGEN 007/08 was released on 10 Sep 08 to ensure all CF electors were properly given thier opportunity to vote and describing the process that would allow this to happen.

Seen.

 

[Love793]

Having just read this guys letters, I think he may want the CSD to apply to him.  I searched for certain key words and intent in his letters, and refernced them with the CCC. Interestingly the CCC offence of Inciting to Mutiny (CCC Part 2 Offences against Public Order; SubSec 53, para a,b) and Offences in Relation to Military Forces (Part 2 Offences against Public Order; Sub Sect 62.1 paras a,b,c) may apply.  The former has a sentence of up to 14 years and the latter up to 5 years.