Oh dear God, you must be kidding me....

[zipperhead_cop]

Criminal sentencing is lockstep with conditioned response.  Sentencing is pathetic and soft, thus being a criminal is easy and encouraged. 
The solution is simple.
Make prison brutal and crushing.  Hard labour, zero protein meals, gulag style conditions.  For a person who has a short sentence, they will have to endure the most horrific event of their lives.  By and large, this should encourage them to get their shit together. 
For the imbecile that can't learn, they will emerge from prison physically shattered and mentally crushed.  Perhaps they will even kill themselves.  I'm okay with that.  I'm also okay with wasting my tax money on them when they have to go on permanent disability, because that will still be cheaper than the bullshit system we have now.  Part of that disability cheque would require them to ingest medication to dampen their evil broken minds, to ensure they are mush heads until the day they expire. 
However, too many candy asses need to lay their self righteous massive heads on their massive pillows at night and convince themselves that they are so much more pure and pious than the rest of us unwashed hordes, these things will not come to pass. 
But a guy can dream, right? 

 

[Munxcub]

+1 zip... hell +10

 

[Pikache]

Well considering your user name has 'moderator' written quite prominently above your name, it's hard to distinguish between when you're a regular member and when you're a moderator. 

General rule of thumb is that any post made by a mod in the DS mode will have some sort of end sentence like 'Directing Staff' or something to that effect to clearly distinguish themselves when in the 'Staff mode'.

For most part, the mods are just regular members who from time to time wear the Moderator cape to fight the evil trolls and whatnot.

 

[CE621]

For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction........or should be.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I don't think imprisonment needs to be unnecessarily harsh.  If all prisons were run like detention barracks it would probably be good enough - every day a busy and regimented one.

 

[Steel Badger]

To the social workers currently running Ontario's Coreectional Services, the DB concept is unacceptably harsh and draconian. our pampered clientele apparently require and deserve softer treatment.....


Drives ya to drink it does......

 

[FastEddy]

I don't think imprisonment needs to be unnecessarily harsh.  If all prisons were run like detention barracks it would probably be good enough - every day a busy and regimented one.

After reading all 4 pages, I am most heartened to find that I have not been marching to a different Drummer.

As for "Brad Sallows" suggestion, if he is referring to a style Incorporated during 1950-60, I would fully agree.

And "Zipperheadcop" couldn't have voiced it more clearly.

And one of the few good things to come out of France was Devils Island and the Judges sentencing remarks, "You are no good to yourself, You are no good to Society, You are no good to France". Yes you say, and then they abolished it, yeah ! and that really seems to have done them a lot of good.

And it wouldn't even require sending them to a nice warm climate. We have plenty of room in the far North.
Escape, In the Summer if the Heat, Blackflys or Wolves don't kill you then Starvation will. As for the Artic Winters, I'll leave that to your imagenations.

These Camps would be populated by all of and only the Scum who Rape, Murder, Use Weapons in the Commission of their Crimes, Who offer Brutality and Violence to their Victims, Drug Pushers & Importers and Child Molesters. This Group being Class 1. (we'd soon see how profitable Drugs are) the minimum sentence would be ten years straight and hardtime. More depending on the Crime.

These Camps would be economically self supporting with only the barest of supplies provided and the Guards only provided to stop them from killing each other and admin. If after ten years of this Hell and they would take the chance of going back for re-offending , honestly what chance has the system we have in place and is it really working.

Whats this got to do with Young Offenders, well if they have a ounce of intelligence as you credit them with, fine, educate them, but without Strong Deterrents, all your doing  is creating  Educated Criminals.

 

[Sassy]

Welcome to the New Canadian Order, socialist policies that pander to the criminals and ignore the victims.  It's cheaper in the long run to commit a Federal Offense, a female can get a free degree in Social Work and it's free and they feed you and wow it's called time.  Some serious spring cleaning needs to be done in all Federal Institutions to de-left/left, common sense is scarce but the socialist dogma of Nanny Nation is alive and growing.  We either stop the nonsense or sit and wait  until we have no say in how our country is run.  Politicians come and go but the hogs at the gravy train called Federal Institutions have built an empire.   

 

[zipperhead_cop]

I don't think imprisonment needs to be unnecessarily harsh.  If all prisons were run like detention barracks it would probably be good enough - every day a busy and regimented one.

It's a start.  Anything would be better than what we have now. 

 

[Hawk]

One of the great problems in our society, as regards our children, is that everyone panders to them from the moment of birth.

You're a bad parent if you allow your baby to cry, for even a few seconds. Instead they learn to expect instant gratification. No parent nowadays seems willing to say no to their child. Ever watched the little darlings throwing temper tantrums in the cereal aisle, toy department or restaurant? To shut them up, Mommy gives them exactly what they want, not what they deserve! (Excuse me, I was raised by the Scottish Mafia - my Grandma was a British trained and fully experienced Nanny). By the time these little sweethearts go to school, they've learned to get their own way by being obnoxious. I know one young woman who, by the time she finally got tired of being in school, grade 10, as I remember, couldn't read - but she passed every year. No teacher in town wanted to take a chance on having her around for a second year! The stories I could tell you about her behavior around the community . . . well, best left unsaid.

Now I live in Winnipeg. I live not too far from a corner frequented by drug dealers - some are cute little kids. I hear of  children who should be in bed running around the streets at all hours. Where are their parents? Some are off doing their own thing. Some don't realize their kids are out - they crawl through windows. We have serious gang problems in Winnipeg, and I'm beginning to suspect a gang war heating up. Lots of these gang members are youngsters. What should be their fate? The same as it is for over-18 gang members. Lock them up. Rehabilitation? Doesn't work. I've hear these kids on the street. They're not stupid - they're laughing about it, because they know no one can do anything to them. They think adults are all stupid, and they'll tell you they can do whatever they want. I have a friend whose daughter(age 23) tells her that on a regular basis. "I can do what I want, and you can't stop me", and she'll destroy her mom's home, assault her young daughter, in her mom's custody. Know what happened when my friend called the cops because Darlling Daughter broke into her house and went through ther personal papers? Nothing! They told her there's nothing they can do.

I don't  know what the answer is. I know its getting worse. Kids are out of control, they know they can't be touched. They know they can do what they like with little or no circumstances - and its society's fault. You can't discipline your child - its against the law. Society wants to rehabilitate them, and they don't want to be rehabilitated. They'll play the game, then contact their gang, and be back on our corner selling drugs, or tagging buildings, or shooting/stabbing other gang's members.

Sorry - I'm ranting. I hope in all this I've made some sort of sense.


Hawk

 

[FastEddy]

One of the great problems in our society, as regards our children, is that everyone panders to them from the moment of birth.

Sorry - I'm ranting. I hope in all this I've made some sort of sense.


Hawk

You've made it perfectly clear and your absolutely right. And unfortunately its become the rule of thumb in North America.

Again it comes down to Discipline which equals Deterrents. And that does not include "Oooops Johnny you just killed the Puppy, you know Mommy doesn't like you to hit things with your BaseBall Bat, now its timeout, so go over and sit down by the Fridge" Ridiculous you say, yeah ! but how far from the truth is it ?.

They say the Death Penalty is not a Deterrent, just look who supports that idea. But today, Hell shoot the Cop, on one hand if I get away, Good, if I get caught, so what, so whats a few extra years.

We've made Crime PAY, ask any Drug Dealer.

Cheers.

 

[Edward Campbell]

... Kids are out of control, they know they can't be touched ...

Then we have two problems:

1.  Too many parents do not understand their duties and responsibilities - often at a basic, human level.  This is to be expected when: the extended family has all but disappeared and, consequentially, the parenting skills lessons which grandma and mom passed on are no longer available; and when children are being reared by, literally, children.  I'm sorry, but poorly educated, poorly socialized, inexperienced teenagers are not equipped to be good parents.

2.  The law is, yet again (still?) an ass.  Children being used as e.g. drug mules is symptomatic of a legal system which has lost its way.  The traffickers must not be allowed to exploit young children in that way - it is worse than a crime against society, it is an attack on society.  We need to make the drug trade less and less attractive - use needs to be penalized: big, Big fines - thousands of dollars for first time, simple possession; and harsh, even cruel punishments for trafficking, regardless of the race or status of the trafficker.  This is one of the reasons I favour public corporal punishment - I think 50 lashes, administered in front of a crowd of young neighbourhood people, would be better than a year in jail.


Edit: typo - "... lashes, administered in frontm of a crowd of young ..."

 

[FastEddy]

  This is one of the reasons I favour public corporal punishment - I think 50 lashes, administered in from of a crowd of young neighbourhood people, would be better than a year in jail.

And if that didn't get the message across, then its time to visit the far North.

Cheers.



Grammatical Edit

 

[Hawk]

Look out, people - you've got me on my favourite hobby-horse now!

Society - the legal system - has taken the rights and responsibilities out of parent's hands. You can be charged with assault for spanking your child. Laying a few slaps on Junior's backside - not beating him - but a well-aimed slap at a young age would stop some of this nonsence we have to put up with from kids. I'm so glad I raised mine when it was just unfashionable to spank, not illegal. Now we have this time out nonsence. That, obviously, does a lot of good! So, your child goes out of control, what happens? The "authorities" get involved. Now you're a bad parent, and Junior goes to a foster home. Guess what? Now he meets other children who've been in the system for long enough to know how it works, and how to work it. Write that kid off!

Remember when it was embarrasing if you got disciplined? You'd never admit you were being bad and Mom or Dad spanked you. Now its, "I'm grounded, but give me time, I'll annoy the old lady till she tosses me out". Where do the kids' rights end and the adults' rights begin?

Then there's kids raising kids. No solutions there, and its symptomatic of the way kids are raised. They're never made responsible for their actions, so they learn to act as they see fit, without having the maturity to deal with the consequences. Then there's an inocent child in the equation - what chance does that child have?

Another point I wanted to make: the extended family. Haven't you heard that the only way your child should be cared for while you're at work is in a government regulated day care facility? You're mistreating your child if you let Aunt Mabel or Grandma babysit. They have no idea how to raise a child - doesn't matter that maybe Aunt Mable had 6 kids, all of whom have turned out to be outstanding citizens, or Grandma may have been an educator, or in my case, a British Nanny. They're too old fashioned, I guess, and shouldn't play too strong a roll in a child's life. Perhaps if Grandma was in charge, Junior would be made to behave.

Sort of an aside, but it speaks to the conversation at hand. At Doors Open Winnipeg, I visited the old Vaughan Street Jail - the oldest facility in Winnipeg. Interesting tour! One of the re-enactors was talking about a 5-year-old who was jailed - yes! - jailed for theft! He was small enough that he could squeeze between the bars and practically had run of the jail. He was in-and-out of cells occupied by drunks, murderers, thieves, etc. The actor stepped out of character for a few minutes to say, although this treatment may seem harsh, it was a better alternative than what's happening today. I asked what became of the little 5-year-old - he went straight!

Public humiliation - there's a thought! Bring back the pillory, I say - feel free to throw fruit and eggs at the little blighter. Maybe an over-ripe tomato in the forehead would do some good!


Hawk

 

[FastEddy]

Look out, people - you've got me on my favourite hobby-horse now!

+1, maybe its about time we all got back on that Hobby-Horse.

Cheers.

 

[Hawk]

Love this forum - I've finally found people who agree with me! Talk about needing gratification and validation  ;D

Joking aside: Somehow parents have to find a way to grab back their kids; to get them back out of the cluches of psychologists, child-advocates, and government organizations. Parents have to regain the maturity, self-control, and common sense to tell these groups ENOUGH! How? Don't know.

As I've said, and, its obvious from what I'm ranting on about, I'm beyond child-rearing. Maybe I shouldn't talk loose - I have a friend only a few years younger than me with a 4-year-old: her granddaughter, whom she's adopted. I'm seeing things from a different perspective than a lot of you. I had an old-fashioned upbringing, where Mom and Dad loved me no end, where I knew the rules, and knew the consequences of not following them, and Nanny to add weight to the household rules. I raised my son the same way.

Parents have to rethink their own goals and ambitions, and figure out where their kids fit in, and figure out how to accomplish their child-rearing goals. They have to start raising their kids with greater care, paying attention to how they're going to turn out good citizens not ratbags who prey on other people and society in general.

You serving members of the CF have my respect and admiration. You're obviously interested in how your kids are raised, and, no doubt doing a great job, by the way you speak. It can't be easy. You must have great kids to start with, and a supportive spouse who can hold it together while you're deployed. I don't know if The Kid would have turned out as well as he has if I'd had to face that - it was hard enough struggling with a civillian career, by the time he came along!


Hawk

 

[chanman]

2.  The law is, yet again (still?) an ass.  Children being used as e.g. drug mules is symptomatic of a legal system which has lost its way.  The traffickers must not be allowed to exploit young children in that way - it is worse than a crime against society, it is an attack on society.  We need to make the drug trade less and less attractive - use needs to be penalized: big, Big fines - thousands of dollars for first time, simple possession; and harsh, even cruel punishments for trafficking, regardless of the race or status of the trafficker.  This is one of the reasons I favour public corporal punishment - I think 50 lashes, administered in front of a crowd of young neighbourhood people, would be better than a year in jail.


Edit: typo - "... lashes, administered in frontm of a crowd of young ..."

Mind you, I think Singapore's idea of executing drug mules, while overly harsh, also provides distinct incentive to check your luggage carefully.

Female shop assistant executed for drug trafficking: Poon Yuen-chung from Hong Kong
Poon Yuen-chung, a shop assistant from Hong Kong, was 18-years-old when she and her 17-year-old friend, Lam Hoi-ka were arrested at Changi Airport, Singapore, after arriving from Bangkok. The two girls had gone on holiday to Bangkok after telling their parents they were going on a local camping trip. Airport officials found heroin hidden in a secret compartment in their luggage. Both girls denied any prior knowledge of the drugs and said they had been befriended by a Chinese couple in Bangkok who had taken them out to dinner and on sightseeing tours, and later bought suitcases for them. "My sister is a simple and naïve girl who can do foolish things sometimes", Poon Yuen-chung’s sister later told the Sunday Morning Post, a Hong Kong newspaper. Despite appeals for clemency, Poon Yuen-chung was executed in April 1995(16). Her friend Lam Hoi-ka was sentenced to life imprisonment as she was under 18 at the time of the offence.

(16) A second woman, Tong Ching-man, also 18-years-old, was executed on the same day in an unrelated drugs case.

From an Amnesty International report on Singapore from 2004.  It should probably be noted that both women were 18 when caught, not when executed.

Side note: Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, China, and Taiwan all have the death penalty in place for drug smuggling as well.  "Drug Smuggling is punishable by Death" was plastered all over the entry areas at Chiang Kai-Shek airport.

South Korea and Japan also keep the death penalty on the books, just not for drugs.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

The two girls had gone on holiday to Bangkok after telling their parents they were going on a local camping trip.

That's the line right there.  Sorry.  They knew what they were doing.  Sucks for the parents, but they knew they might be killed for their efforts.  TFB. 

I don't get this "child worship" mentality.  I know that the Children's Aid Society has a large amount of blame for this, as they tell people some pretty stupid things with regards to how kids should be disciplined.  I swear, part of the hiring criteria over there must be that field workers must not have ever been parents.  I talk to so many people that are convinced that "if I hit my kid, I'll get charged and the CAS will take my kids".  No.  You won't.  If you put your kid in the hospital, yes you might get charged.  I would be amazed if any officer actually charged anyone these days for giving their kid a whack on the bum for acting out.  As for the CAS, they put kids back into cockroach infested crack houses.  Nobody really needs to worry about being without their kids for too long. 

 

[Hawk]

I stand corrected. I had assumed, like most other people, that it was illegal to spank. Most people I know assume that. We should be better informed, for the sake of our children. If its not illegal, it's still causing a lot of chaos, fights, and children waging war on their parents. A young relative told his father - "You touch me and I'll call the cops". Teachers are telling kids at school that if their parents lay a hand on them, to tell the teacher, their parents aren't allowed to touch them. Honest - I've heard it from kids who have been told this! No wonder we all assume spanking's illegal.

You mentioned Children's Aid telling people stupid things. I heard of one case where a parent was told she shouldn't try to control her 15-year-old girl. They really helped that family.

We were sitting on a bench in the shade last night, The Man and I, and we watched a kid, no more that 14 or 15, make 4 drug deals, then take off on his bike up the street. He was so obvious - they aren't even covert about it. He looked a cocky little twerp - he knows, and his supplier knows nothing bad will happen to him.

Please stop society, I want to get off!!


Hawk

 

[18-and-ready]

I was taught through good old fashion fear, I did not get hit alot but I knew if I acted up enough I would.

Plain and simple act up, get punished

Lets bring back the parents who kept a big wooden spoon on the counter for you to see
Or the belt on the wall.

I'm not saying to go out and beat our kids - let them think we will.

Even our jails pat you on the back give you a hug a warm meal and send you on your way.
Its all just a joke, lets bring back bad conditions make it hell to be in jail
let them sit in a black windowless hole in the wall with no social contact with spearing meals of bread and water

Make jail feel like going home with a bad report card
Not an ego booster

18