Occupational and Component Transfers (OT/CT/VOT) During and After BMQ (Merged)

[mariomike]

Anyone know the likely hood of switching from EME to Arty officer. Still currently doing BMOQ.

See also by seanm,

Reg to Res
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/123747/post-1448375.html#msg1448375
I'm currently on BMOQ Mod 1. Is it possible to switch to my local infantry Reserve unit for BMQ?

 

[PuckChaser]

Anyone know the likely hood of switching from EME to Arty officer. Still currently doing BMOQ. I heard in the CAF's state right now they are looking for combat role officers.

Your inability to read is going to make you a terrible officer, for any trade you get placed in.

 

[Andraste]

Anyone know the likely hood of switching from EME to Arty officer. Still currently doing BMOQ. I heard in the CAF's state right now they are looking for combat role officers.

Hello,

It is going to depend on a few things. However, you won't even be considered for voluntary occupation transfer - untrained (VOT(U)) until after your BMOQ.  If the CAF is going to invest money in you in either trade they want to see how you perform on basic military training. 

You would have to meet the entry standards for the target MOSID (ARTY) be interviewed by a Personnel Selection Officer and you file will go forward for consideration in competition with other folks applying for VOT-U.  It can be done but you will need to start by talking to your chain of command once you finish BMOQ.

Cheers

A

 

[Eye In The Sky]

See also by seanm,

Reg to Res
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/123747/post-1448375.html#msg1448375
I'm currently on BMOQ Mod 1. Is it possible to switch to my local infantry Reserve unit for BMQ?

Andraste,

Would this also be true if the member is PRES?

SeanM, are you Reg or Reserver?

 

[Andraste]

Hi Eye,

This would be a bit different as the member is requesting to relinquish his rank and serve in the PRes as an NCM.  If the member is currently Regular Force he would have to submit a memo to his chain of command requesting a component transfer to the Reserve Force.  This may or may not be entertained depending on if he has any obligatory service under his current Regular Force Enrolment Plan (e.g., ROTP).  If it is granted it is possible he may have to formally submit a request to relinquish his rank to the CDS to continue to serve as an NCM in the Reserve Force. 

However if the member is currently Reserve Force officer wishing to serve as a Reserve Force as an NCM then he will need to submit a memo to his current chain of command requesting to relinquish his rank and continue to serve in the PRes as an NCM.  This will be approved by the officer approving the transfer (e.g., most likely the formation commander).

So long story short . . . I would need more information on where the member currently sits within his CAF career.

Cheers

Andraste

 

[seanm]

I am Reg force ROTP.

 

[raouljohn]

Good day.

I have a question for the CAF recruiter: I have enrolled this year, I have done BMQ and BMQ-L, and I want to change my trade.

The clerk from my unit told me that I have to release from the army, because I am not fully trained in the trade that I choose at first (artillery), and I can't become a clerk, because now the courses are during the 2 summers. So, I just "wasted one summer".

So, within the first 2 years after enrollment, do I have to be fully trained or to do only BMQ, to ask for trade change.

BTW: I am talking about reserves.

Thank you very much!


John

 

[Hissez Waldo]

Can I (as a reservist) transfer from my unit to another before doing the DP1 (so while still having a cornflake on my beret)? 

I am with in the army since last spring.  Did all my basic courses ( BMQ and BMQ-L ) and never miss any days of training.  But I realize that this trade may not be for me after all. Few people around tell me I can transfer while others say I can't.  In my opinion, it will be kinda stupid to know I can't transfer.  I mean, why would you send somebody on a trade course that he doesn't wanna do and once done, he transfer anyway.

When I ask one of my instructor.  He simply ask questions like "Oh so you wanna leave us" or "Why you hate us".  And basically never answer my question.  I do understand why a unit try to keep theirs members (specially the one I go to since it small and they have lot of troubles recruiting).  But jeez...  It just a question.

Thank you.

 

[BC Old Guy]

Can I (as a reservist) transfer from my unit to another before doing the DP1 (so while still having a cornflake on my beret)? 

The issues will be :
-What trade /occupation will you be able to transfer into? Does the other unit offer this trade? - Depends on the results of your testing at the CFRC, and your medical.  Some require specific results (eg - Colour Vision - because much of what some trades do are colour coded, whiles other trades don't have that requirement)
-Is the unit you want to go to close enough for you to attend their training?
-Will the new unit accept you?

If the answers to any of these is "no" then you will not be able to transfer.

If the answeres are "yes" then you have a bureaucratic tangle to sort through, as your current unit needs to start the paperwork, the new unit needs to agree to accept, and the HQ needs to ensure that the you meet the requirements of the new unit. 

For the HQ to agree, they normally have a Reserve Personnel Selection Officer (PSO) review the file, and conduct an interview.  Most PSOs are on Cl A, so have limited time.  It may take some time to get the appointment, and more time for the report to be written and sent to the decision makers.

So - you can see this might take some time. 

Advice - take your trades training while waiting.  It will show your determination, and help with the decision process.  As well, you may find after training your will enjoy the unit and occupation more than you think so now.

BCOG

 

[Hissez Waldo]

This answer is simply perfect. 

Thanks a lot.  It is great to finally have a answer that make sense.

 

[swonder25]

Good evening everyone!

What kind of timeframe can one be looking at for a COT (from trb to new trade) or is this a case by case situation? I can't find anything in the regs with regards to this.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[swonder25]

This would be Reg force Officer to another Officer trade. Thanks!

 

[dapaterson]

It is a case by case situation, depending on (among other things) reasons for the COT, your CFAT, openings in other occupations...

 

[swonder25]

Just curious if you could ballpark it for me? If not your initial answer will more than suffice.

I was unsuccessful during my trade training, my CFAT score is quite good. So if for example I was lucky enough to be accepted into the #1 choice on my list, time from trb to new trade would be about 8-12 months?

 

[Jorkapp]

8-12 months would be a timeline for falling through the cracks.

From the date of your PRB/TRB, you have 90 days to pick a new trade. After which, the process generally takes a short time to complete. I've heard of one month timelines, but I imagine they are the exception. Granted, my reassignment took 12 months, but that was due to a series of errors made in handling my file, which are not likely to be repeated.

 

[swonder25]

Is there a reg somewhere for the 90 day thing?

It's been 3.5 weeks since my trb and I have not even been referred to a bpso.

I would love to get this sorted out as it seems 8-12 months in Esquimalt is the norm.

 

[Jorkapp]

Not on hand right now. It was in a CANFORGEN ca. 2010/2011. I'll find it when I to work tomorrow night (yay shift work!)

 

[swonder25]

That would be amazing! Thanks. Greatly appreciated.

 

[Jorkapp]

...and here it is!

CANFORGEN 257/10 CMP 115/10 201435Z DEC 10

EXPEDITED RELEASE PROCESSING OF REG F MEMBERS ON THE BASIC TRAINING (TRG) LIST

UNCLASSIFIED


REFS: A. Q R AND O CHAP 15 RELEASE
B. CFAO 15-1 RETENTION OF PERSONNEL ELIGIBLE FOR RELEASE ON MEDICAL GROUNDS
C. DAOD 5019-2 - ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW
D. DAOD 5023-1 - MINIMUM OPERATIONAL STANDARDS RELATED TO UNIVERSALITY OF SERVICE
E. CDS DELEGATED RELEASE AUTHORITIES HTTP://HR.OTTAWA-HULL.MIL.CA/DGMP/DPGP/DOWNLOADS/DOCUMENTS/DOC(UNDERSCORE)CDS(UNDERSCORE)RELEASE(UNDERSCORE)AUTHORITIES(UNDERSCORE)REGF(UNDERSCORE)E.PDF
F. CANFORGEN 031/09 CMP 017/09 122016Z FEB 09
G. CANFORGEN 174/09 CMP 075/09 081338Z OCT 09
H. CANFORGEN 225/10 CMP 099/10 091503Z NOV 10


1. AS NOTIFIED AT REF H, THIS MESSAGE SETS OUT DIRECTION TO STREAMLINE RELEASE PROCEDURES FOR REG F MEMBERS ASSIGNED TO THE BASIC TRG LIST. CONSERVATION OF PERSONNEL REMAINS A STRATEGIC OBJECTIVE IN ALL PHASES OF PERSONNEL PRODUCTION AND SO TRAINING ESTABLISHMENTS MUST CONTINUE TO MAKE ALL REASONABLE EFFORTS TO ENABLE TRAINEE SUCCESS. THE INTENT OF THIS POLICY GUIDANCE IS TO ENSURE THAT NEW ENTRY PERSONNEL WHO HAVE GENUINELY LOST INTEREST IN CONTINUING THEIR MILITARY SERVICE AND THOSE WHO ARE UNABLE TO MEET PERFORMANCE OR OTHER MILITARY STANDARDS ARE REMOVED FROM REG F STRENGTH AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE


2. STREAMLINED RELEASE PROCEDURES APPLY TO THOSE MEMBERS WHO ARE BEING RELEASED UNDER Q R AND O 15.01 ITEMS 3 (MEDICAL), 4 (VOLUNTARY) AND 5 (SERVICE COMPLETED). ADDITIONAL DETAILS ON EACH CATEGORY FOLLOW


3. REQUEST FOR RELEASE - VOLUNTARY:

a. THE VOLUNTARY RELEASE OF REG F NCMS AND OFFRS WHO HAVE NOT INCURRED OBLIGATORY SVC OR ARE NOT ON A RESTRICTED PERIOD OF RELEASE IS TO BE EXPEDITED UNLESS THE MEMBER IS INTERESTED IN TRANSFERRING TO AN UNDER-STRENGTH OCCUPATION (SEE SUB-PARA B). FORMATION AND BASE /WING COMMANDERS ARE TO ENSURE THAT MEMBERS WHO HAVE RECEIVED A RELEASE INSTRUCTION HAVE PRIORITY ACCESS TO LOCAL RELEASE SECTION, MEDICAL, DENTAL AND PERSONNEL SELECTION OFFICER (PSO) SVCS. PSOS ARE TO LIMIT THE RELEASE INTERVIEW TO AN EXPLANATION OF THE SVCS THAT ARE AVAILABLE AFTER RELEASE


b. ON RECEIPT OF A MEMBER S REQUEST FOR A VOLUNTARY RELEASE, THOSE WHO ARE ASSIGNED TO A MILITARY OCCUPATION THAT IS AT STRENGTH OR OVER-STRENGTH (I.E. OCCUPATION STATUS CODE GREEN), SHALL BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY FOR A VOLUNTARY OCCUPATION TRANSFER-UNTRAINED TO AN UNDER-STRENGTH MILITARY OCCUPATION (I.E. OCCUPATION STATUS CODE RED). MEMBERS INTERESTED IN THE VOLUNTARY OCCUPATION TRANSFER-UNTRAINED OPTION SHALL BE COUNSELLED ON THE REQUIREMENT TO CONTINUE CURRENT TRAINING AND BE REFERRED TO THE PSO OFFICE FOR ASSESSMENT AND PROCESSING. OTHER REQUESTS FOR A VOLUNTARY OCCUPATION TRANSFER-UNTRAINED IN LIEU OF VOLUNTARY RELEASE SHALL ONLY BE CONSIDERED IN LIGHT OF SERVICE REQUIREMENTS


c. BASIC TRG LIST OFFICERS/OCDTS WHO HAVE INCURRED OBLIGATORY SERVICE AS A RESULT OF RECEIVING SUBSIDIZED EDUCATION WHILE ON FULL-TIME PAID DUTY WHO REQUEST VOLUNTARY RELEASE SHALL EITHER BE RELEASED WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER SIGNING THE PROMISSORY NOTE THAT OBLIGATES THE MEMBER TO REIMBURSE THE CF, OR THEY MAY REQUEST TO RELINQUISH THEIR RANK, TRAIN IN AN NCM MOSID, AND SERVE OUT THEIR OBLIGATORY SERVICE AS AN NCM. THE PRACTICE OF PLACING OCDTS ON ADMINISTRATIVE DUTIES (REFERRED TO AS ZULU) IS STRONGLY DISCOURAGED. OCDTS WHO WERE PLACED ON ADMINISTRATIVE DUTIES PRIOR TO THE RELEASE OF THIS CANFORGEN WILL BE PERMITTED TO SERVE THEIR REMAINING OBLIGATORY SERVICE. THEY MAY ALSO REQUEST A VOLUNTARY RELEASE IAW REF A PARA 15.07(2) OR REQUEST TO RELINQUISH THEIR RANK


d. BASIC TRG LIST NCMS WHO HAVE INCURRED OBLIGATORY SERVICE AS A RESULT OF RECEIVING FULL-TIME SUBSIDIZED EDUCATION AT A POST-SECONDARY INSTITUTION WHO REQUEST VOLUNTARY RELEASE SHALL BE RELEASED WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER SIGNING THE PROMISSORY NOTE THAT OBLIGATES THE MEMBER TO REIMBURSE THE CF, OR THEY MAY REQUEST TO SERVE OUT THEIR OBLIGATORY SERVICE AS A TRAINED NCM. SERVING OUT OBLIGATORY SERVICE WHILE UNTRAINED AT THE PRIVATE/CORPORAL RANK IS NOT AUTHORIZED



4. RELEASE SERVICE COMPLETED (I.E. NOT ADVANTAGEOUSLY EMPLOYABLE, IRREGULAR ENROLMENT, UNSUITABLE FOR FURTHER SERVICE)

a. MEMBERS AT CFLRS: UNLESS APPROVED FOR A RECOURSE, THE OFFRS AND NCMS WHO FAIL TO ATTAIN THE BASIC MILITARY QUAL/BASIC MILITARY OFFR QUAL OR MEET THE THRESHOLD FITNESS TEST STANDARD WITHIN THEIR FIRST WEEK AT CFLRS ARE TO BE PROCESSED FOR RELEASE WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS. BASIC TRG LIST MEMBERS WHO ARE NEARING THE END OF THEIR INITIAL TERMS OF SERVICE (TOS) WITHOUT COMPLETING BMQ/BASIC MILITARY OFFICER QUAL SHALL BE PROCESSED FOR AN EXPEDITED RELEASE. SHOULD RETENTION BE WARRANTED THE ADMINISTERING UNIT MAY, ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS, REQUEST A ONE YEAR CONTINUING ENGAGEMENT IN ORDER TO PERMIT AN ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW (IF REQUIRED) AND DETERMINATION OF SUITABILITY FOR FURTHER SERVICE


b. MEMBERS AT OTHER TRG ESTABLISHMENTS: OFFICERS AND NCMS WHO HAVE ATTAINED THE BMQ/BMOQ, BUT WHO FAIL TO ATTAIN THE BASIC MILITARY OCCUPATION QUALIFICATION FOR THEIR ASSIGNED OCCUPATION SHALL BE:

(1) EXPEDITIOUSLY PROCESSED FOR RELEASE UNDER Q R AND O 15.01 ITEM 5 (SERVICE COMPLETED) IF NOT CONSIDERED SUITABLE FOR FURTHER SERVICE OR

(2) OTHERWISE REFERRED TO THE PSO OFFICE TO DETERMINE SUITABILITY FOR A COMPULSORY OCCUPATION TRANSFER-UNTRAINED (COT-U). THE CHAIN OF COMMAND SHALL ENSURE THAT THE MEMBER MEETS WITH THE BASE OR WING PSO FOR AN INITIAL CAREER COUNSELLING SESSION WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS OF THE CEASE TRG DATE AND THAT THE PSO REPORT (CF 285) AND ALL ACCOMPANYING ADMINISTRATIVE PAPERWORK ARE SUBMITTED TO DGMC/DMILC 7 FOR A DETERMINATION OF FURTHER SERVICE WITHIN NINETY (90) DAYS OF THE CEASE TRG DATE. SHOULD THE MEMBER NOT BE INTERESTED IN TRANSFERRING TO A MILITARY OCCUPATION THAT IS AVAILABLE WITHIN 90 DAYS OF THE CEASE TRG DATE, THE MEMBER SHALL BE RELEASED WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS OF THIS DECISION. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY THE PRACTICE OF RETAINING A MEMBER ON THE BASIC TRG LIST UNTIL SUCH TIME AS A MILITARY OCCUPATION OF INTEREST TO THE MEMBER BECOMES AVAILABLE FOR OT UNTRAINED SHALL CEASE


c. BASIC TRG LIST OFFICERS/OCDTS WHO HAVE INCURRED OBLIGATORY SERVICE AS A RESULT OF RECEIVING SUBSIDIZED EDUCATION WHILE ON FULL TIME PAID DUTY AND WHO FAIL TO MAINTAIN A SATISFACTORY ACADEMIC STANDARD, ATTAIN BASIC MILITARY OFFICER QUAL OR ATTAIN BASIC MILITARY OCCUPATION QUAL (INCLUDING ON JOB TRAINING FOR APPLICABLE OCCUPATIONS) AND ARE RECOMMENDED FOR RELEASE, SHALL BE RELEASED WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS. OFFICERS/OCDTS WHO HAVE SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED THE BASIC MILITARY OFFICER QUAL MAY BE CONSIDERED FOR COT U IAW SUB-PARA 4-B(2)


d. BASIC TRG LIST NCMS WHO HAVE INCURRED OBLIGATORY SERVICE AS A RESULT OF RECEIVING FULL-TIME SUBSIDIZED EDUCATION AT A POST-SECONDARY INSTITUTION AND WHO HAVE FAILED TO MAINTAIN A SATSIFACTORY ACADEMIC STANDARD, OR ATTAIN THE BMQ OR BASIC MILITARY OCCUPATION QUAL AND ARE RECOMMENDED FOR RELEASE, SHALL BE RELEASED WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS. NCMS WHO HAVE SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED THE BMQ MAY BE CONSIDERED FOR COT-U IAW SUB-PARA 4B(2) ABOVE.


e. CONDUCT DEFICIENCIES: THE CF HAS ALSO IDENTIFIED A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF BASIC TRG LIST MEMBERS WITH CONDUCT DEFICIENCIES. IAW REF A, PARAS 15.21(1), 15.22 (1) AND 15.36(1) THESE MEMBERS SHALL BE RECOMMENDED FOR AN ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW. DMCA AND THE UNITS ADMINISTERING THESE MEMBERS ARE TO EXPEDITE THE COMPLETION OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW (IF REQUIRED) AND RELEASE PROCESSING


f. MEMBERS WHO ARE DISCOVERED PRIOR TO THE COMPLETION OF THE BASIC MILITARY OCCUPATION QUALIFICATION FOR THEIR ASSIGNED OCCUPATION TO HAVE MEDICAL LIMITATIONS WHICH PRE DATED ENROLMENT AND WHICH WOULD HAVE PRECLUDED ENROLMENT IF THEY HAD BEEN DISCLOSED OR DETECTED SHALL BE PROCESSED FOR RELEASE UNDER THE IRREGULAR ENROLMENT ITEM



5.RELEASE MEDICAL: THE CF HAS IDENTIFIED A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF BASIC TRG LIST MEMBERS WITH SERIOUS LONG-TERM MEDICAL LIMITATIONS. D MED POL AND DMCA SHALL EXPEDITE THE REVIEW AND PROCESSING OF MEDICAL RELEASES FOR THOSE BASIC TRG LIST MEMBERS WHO ARE UNABLE TO MEET THE MINIMUM OPERATIONAL STANDARDS ASSOCIATED WITH THE PRINCIPLE OF UNIVERSALITY OF SERVICE (REF D)


6. A REQUEST TO AMEND REF E TO FURTHER FACILITATE THE ADMINISTRATION OF BASIC TRAINING LIST RELEASES WILL BE STAFFED THROUGH SEPARATE CORRESPONDENCE


7. SIGNED BY RADM A. SMITH, CMP

 

[swonder25]

You are definitely my new favourite person haha. Thanks a bunch!