Not what I expected after class...

[brihard]

Monday was interesting.



So I get out of my Monday night history lecture, and my buddy and I decide to go to one of the campus pubs for a pint or two... or three...

We get there, and they're clearly setting up for some kind of shindig. I ask around, and turns out Jack Layton was here on campus doing a Q&A session. After that, they came down to the pub for a few drinks and a presentation from a former U.S. army 'war resister' (read: deserter) named Ryan Johnson. Wearing, I might add, an 'Iraq Veterans Against the War' shirt that I don't believe he's entitled to, not having deployed.

Anyway, I'm sitting at the back of the pub somewhat bemused by the left wing spectacle unfolding in front of me, and then Jack Layton himself walks in, plus one of the local members of parliament from his party.

I went up to watch the presentation by the deserter, then asked him two polite but pointed questions. First, simply, when did he volunteer for service in the U.S. army? Second, did he not thing that it was prejudicial to the morale of the troops currently serving overseas to have people deserting and doing what he's doing?

He basically fed me some horseshit, to rousing applause, but afterwards a few of the NDPeons in the bar came up and told me I'd asked hard but fair questions. Then I went and chatted with Jack Layton. I asked him how his party reconciled their opposition to the deployment of our battlegroup with the military necessity of protecting the provincial reconstruction team that we have deployed- which incidentally operates almost exactly within the sort of humanitarian mandate the NDP hopes to see for the entire mission. Again, I was fed some horseshit that basically just exposed Mr. Layton's ignorance of tactical matters. He wants to have his cake and negotiate with it over the terms of eating, too.

I did later have a great conversation/mini debate with the Ottawa Central member of parliament, Paul Dewar. Truly an intelligent and honest guy- he has his opinions, backs them with facts and sticks to them. Our disagreement lies simply in our respective political philosophies, but he did strike me as a man of credibility. His knowledge of Afghan history is much better than mine.

The funniest bit was at the end, when Mr. Layton was giving his 'farewell' speech; he specifically thanked the 'serving member of our forces who treated us to an intelligent and democratically minded exchange of views', or some such. Never in my life did I dream I'd be publicly praised by the leader of the NDP, or get a round of applause from his followers. I almost spit out my beer laughing while all these pinkos up front applauded. Fortunately I was inconspicuously at the back of the pub by this point, so they didn't see me laughing at them.

If it wasn't so hilarious I'm sure I'd feel some sort of shame.


Good ol' Carleton University...

Edit to add: Not as good a story without a photo op. I'm on the right. How could I resist? Please forgive me.

 

[Synthos]

Oh snap is he coming to uOttawa? I'd love to engage in "intelligent and democratically minded exchange of views"

 

[davidk]

Good on you, Brian. You of all people would have been able to get the message across in most circumstances, but I guess Mr. Layton doesn't leave you much to work with...

 

[career_radio-checker]

I just can't get over the fact you had a political debate over a pint with one of the major political leaders in Canada. Who cares what side he's from, that's friggn democracy at work, baby! :threat:

*wipes sweat off brow*

Sorry... I'm a political science student and I sometimes get carried away in these things.

Only in Ottawa, eh?

 

[niner domestic]

Outstanding Brihard!

 

[brihard]

I just can't get over the fact you had a political debate over a pint with one of the major political leaders in Canada. Who cares what side he's from, that's friggn democracy at work, baby! :threat:

*wipes sweat off brow*

Sorry... I'm a political science student and I sometimes get carried away in these things.

Only in Ottawa, eh?

Ahem. That's Carleton. Not fair to generalize the rest of my city using my school.  ;D But yeah, even if it was just Taliban Jack, good to talk to one of them. I actually honestly enjoyed talking with Mr. Dewar. I imagine he and I would have gone on a while longer - and probably both of us learned something - had one of the Carleton NDP supporters not been shooting me looks of hate and making an active effort to draw him away for something else.



Hey Dave, didn't know you were still kicking around here. Yeah, I made sure to sound very diplomatic in my questions- I figure if I made even one of them think twice about what the deserter was saying, I'd done something even more satisfying that smacking him in the face would have been. Layton wouldn't hear sense and I didn't expect him to. The deserter though- I think I managed to get my contempt for him across when we were having our little stare-down as he 'answered' my question. I made sure he knew I was asking as a soldier.

 

[RHFC_piper]

I don't want to start a war, but I would like to play the devils advocate for a moment if I may;

I think that you had a fantastic political opportunity (especially coupled with a beer), and you asked two perfect questions, well done.  You aslo brought up great points and arguments to the perfect people.  You may not be able to change their minds, but atleast they'll have something to think about.

But, And like I said; I don't want to start a war, as much as the NDP is disliked by some soldiers and supporters of the forces, we do need them.  It may not seem like it, but we do.  They are part of the system as much as any other party, and obviously they're representing a least some small percentage of Canada's population.  With out them, some Canadians would feel misrepresented, and that would be robbing them of a freeedom which we are employed and sworn to protect.

I'm not trying to defend them, I just understan the need for them.  The beauty of our system is that everyone is free to have their oppinions represented and / or choose people to represent them.  I personally don't agree with a lot of the NDP's views and oppinions, but as a soldier I would fight and die to protect them, as they are fellow Canadians.

The only reason I bring this up is to point out that as soldiers, our job is to defend the Government, people and interests of Canada... even if we don't agree with them.

Cheers,

- Piper

P.S. on a personal note, way to stick it to the Deserter.

 

[warspite]

Brihard, words are not enough so instead.  

 

[brihard]

I don't want to start a war, but I would like to play the devils advocate for a moment if I may;

I think that you had a fantastic political opportunity (especially coupled with a beer), and you asked two perfect questions, well done.  You aslo brought up great points and arguments to the perfect people.  You may not be able to change their minds, but atleast they'll have something to think about.

But, And like I said; I don't want to start a war, as much as the NDP is disliked by some soldiers and supporters of the forces, we do need them.  It may not seem like it, but we do.  They are part of the system as much as any other party, and obviously they're representing a least some small percentage of Canada's population.  With out them, some Canadians would feel misrepresented, and that would be robbing them of a freeedom which we are employed and sworn to protect.

I'm not trying to defend them, I just understan the need for them.  The beauty of our system is that everyone is free to have their oppinions represented and / or choose people to represent them.  I personally don't agree with a lot of the NDP's views and oppinions, but as a soldier I would fight and die to protect them, as they are fellow Canadians.

The only reason I bring this up is to point out that as soldiers, our job is to defend the Government, people and interests of Canada... even if we don't agree with them.

Cheers,

- Piper

P.S. on a personal note, way to stick it to the Deserter.

Oh, you're absolutely correct. I don't agree with the NDP philosophy, or particularly like their party, but it's made up collectively of a bunch of Canadian individuals- the individuals we're all sworn on to protect. Some of my friends voted NDP and I don't hold it against them; it's a matter of political philosophy. Plus they do a good job of splitting the left.

The deserter I had nothing but contempt for. He cut and run instead of facing the music for the decision he made, and I didn't give him any freebie. I wish I'd had time to prepare a couple of better questions, but on the spot I think I hit what is - for those of us who serve - one of the msot critical issues; the guys over there.

CRC: Democracy at work, absolutely. I'm still pleased to have had the opportunity to talk to Messrs. Layton and Dewar.

 

[HDE]

Piper

  I agree.  The NDP add to the variety of legitimate political viewpoints; certainly they give "progressives"  (what does that actually mean?) a place to go.  When you compare them to some of the more dubious political movements in the world they're pretty benign,  heck they even have a useful idea now and then.  As Brihard points out some of them, such as Paul Dewar,  really are able to discuss issues.  I believe our "right-wing", the PCs,  and our "left -wing", the NDP,  are far closer to the centre than they appear.

 

[davidk]

+1, Piper, every time I get riled up against politicians, I just think, without us, where would they be?

....off spending our budget on fact-finding missions to the Bahamas

 

[brihard]

+1, Piper, every time I get riled up against politicians, I just think, without us, where would they be?

....off spending our budget on fact-finding missions to the Bahamas

They should find some political instability or something so that some of us can go on a taxpayer sponsored trip there.  ;D

 

[RHFC_piper]

I think the questions asked were perfect for on the spot... very to the point. And I'm glad you were able to have a reasonable debate... sounds like a good time for just going out for a few pints of bitter.
I really just wanted to make sure this wasn't going to turn into a political party slagging thread.

Personally, I have a tough time understanding how someone can be completely "right-wing" or completely "left-wing"... I agree with some "lefty" ideas as much as I agree with some "righty" ideas.  But thats why we have a system where more than one party has a voice in policy.

btw, thanks for taking my post the way I meant it, and not in a negative way.

 

[brihard]

I think the questions asked were perfect for on the spot... very to the point. And I'm glad you were able to have a reasonable debate... sounds like a good time for just going out for a few pints of bitter.
I really just wanted to make sure this wasn't going to turn into a political party slagging thread.

Personally, I have a tough time understanding how someone can be completely "right-wing" or completely "left-wing"... I agree with some "lefty" ideas as much as I agree with some "righty" ideas.  But thats why we have a system where more than one party has a voice in policy.

btw, thanks for taking my post the way I meant it, and not in a negative way.

I'm much the same- I'm 'left', 'right' or 'centre' depending on the issues.

And don't worry, I knew immediately what you meant. Plus I'm one of the hardest people in the world to offend.  8)

 

[Zell_Dietrich]

I really respect that we need the ability to freely question the actions of the government.  It is the cornerstone of our culture and society.  Yes there are valid concerns with the mission in Afghanistan. Now,  with the perfunctory things out of the way,  my voice is as free as theirs.  If they say something that I disagree with I have the right (and apparent civic duty) to say I that disagree and why.  I can do this without hindering their expression, just as they can say what they believe and why without hindering me.

I was a hard core NDPer since I was 12.  Demand side economics, progressive socail issues I was hard core Orange. There were a few things I disagree with, but I saw so much good coming from the party, I supported it in its entirety.  Then they decided to pimp the disdain towards the Iraq war and have started impugning the CF for Afghanistan.  An alarming number of Canadians don't know the difference,  what we are doing, why we're doing what we are doing and so forth. I feel the NDP are simply trying to exploit on the ignorance of Canadians - which I feel is an insult to the intelligence of every Canadian. (sorry if I seem to rough on this,  I've had to deal with allot of NDPers lately) So now I'm left with no political party to support,  I have no idea who I am going to vote for in February or March. I think I might just vote "none of the above" and stay home.

And I think establishing a military joint venture with Cuba would be smart.  We could have three month jungle training courses and they get a steady stream of Canadian trainees who have money and weekends off.  Any other ideas? :warstory: