NO FRENCH For Married Pilots out of BMOQ

[Scoobs]

Having done SLT for 8 months back in 2000 right out of the Officer's Basic Course (whatever it was called back then), I appreciate the issue of being separated from your family.  I'm a DEO and was already married for four years at that point.  There was no distinction between married or non-married, you did the course.  I agree with the other posters that doing SLT is actually good for you.  When it comes to merit boards for promotion to Maj, you get points for a valid French profile.  Believe me, one point can make the difference between promotion or not.

The vast majority of officer trades now do not receive SLT.  This puts them at a disadvantage to those who have had the formal training in French, be in on SLT taken before the policy change or via RMC or other means.  Thus, if I was you, I would study hard (seriously) and achieve at least a profile.  Work on the French and keep the profile current.  It will help you if you ever want to be a Major.

I asked the more senior pers in my trade what is being done for those now put at a disadvantage and I was told that supervisors can free up the time to send pers on local courses.  Ya right!  Work is very busy and sending your junior officer to do French vice work, for the most part, is just not done.  Yes, supervisors have the responsiblity to ensure that their pers receive the opportunities to progress, but how to do this is the challenge.  Frankly, I wish that all new officers coming in were forced to take the SLT.  That way everybody is on an equal footing.

As for the other comments about your choice of words, future flying, officer abilities, whining, etc., the other posters are trying to tell you to realize something.  First and foremost, you are an officer above anything else.  Take this as a learning opportunity (junior officers are expected to put their foot in their mouth, it is how you handle yourself afterwards and what you learn from it that will make you a good leader or not).

 

[bison33]

As a retired  FE who's been there done that, here's my take:

1. "If the military wanted you to have a wife(family), they would have issued you one". Heard this one way too many times, usually from thrice divorced crotchety old Warrants or Majors. Get used to hearing that.

2. "Your single so we can make you do anything we want. The married guys need to spend time with their wives(families)". Your immed supervisor should be slapped for saying that but get used to it.

Be thankful you get  SLT at a young age. I know of folks with 30 yrs in getting it (needed to be a CWO) and have a hard time learning. Much easier when you are young. I have seen many a 2lt wallow away for 2 years waiting for any course. So you get another year in partyville and learn French, is it that bad? Well, maybe ask to get out of SLT and spend the next 2 years wallowing away being someone's b***h in Ops or the Library or Scheduling or maybe as the CO's secretary's personal photocopier, or even as the canteen queen. Then you get PFT/BFT then an OTU. Now you are flying for a few years, making AC allowance and if with TacHel, LDA or if in Pet, even more money. Now you are asked to go on SLT. You'll whine about losing over a grand a month  and then you might end up in a non flying job for another 2-3 years. You'll never win. Just take the good with the bad, complain to your buddies (always good to vent) but not to the FE, we'd just tell to to shut it anyways  ;D, then carry on. My  :2c:

 

[armyvern]

I`ve no qualms with learning french, it`s just that CFLS straight out of CFLRS is the worst possible posting-  you continue to be treated like an invalid, and you get NONE of the benefits of being on a real base, ie: an Air Force officer here is not allowed to go to QM and ask for basic, neccessary shit like Air Force epaulettes, or blue airforce T-shirts, so there are, after four months, still guys walking around with Air Force berets, green T-shirts, and green epaulettes on their combats-  real professional!  This list goes on and on, and I damn sure wish I`d have married my gf before finishing my officer course!

I'm going to call BS on this. It's not that you "aren't allowed" to go to clothing stores etc to pick up blue t-shirts and epaulettes which will apparently better-assist you in learning french ... it's that you have to actually "sign out of class" to go do things like this (and visit pay office too etc).

Successful SLT is based upon "minimum X" number of hours of instruction; class days and schedule are laid out from the get-go (our class day in Borden last year ran from 0800-1500hrs daily); leave only occured for Christmas (6 annual) and March Break (5 annual); if you need to go to clothing stores or pay etc --- you sign out of class and sign back in when you get back. These missing minutes/hours are tracked. This ensures that you meet the minimum PS and CF hours of instruction required. Each course has 'an overage' of classroom time built in to the overall scheduled course time to allow students to achieve this and still accomplish admin.

So yes, you can go. You can't just get up and go whenever you feel the whim kick in. Ask your course senior for an absence sheet --- and use it. Apparently, you are an adult. Given the assinine girlfriend comment though, I could certainly be mistaken.

Désolé.

 

[The_Mauler]

That is a hard point to argue TK

Initally I was on the suck it cup cake side but then again your point is valid, now I am all conflicted.... OP dont ever marry for a service reason the she gets half your stuff when she splits.

Half of sweet FA is still ... sweet FA. 

For everyone else:  I`m not saying that this is some gruelling nightmare, far from it, but there are far better places to be and, IMO, far more career relevant things to be doing.  Also, if you`ve never walked into the FSL course straight off of the officer course, you have no idea what you`re talking about and your opinions on the matter are hardly relevant.

 

[armyvern]

Half of sweet FA is still ... sweet FA. 

For everyone else:  I`m not saying that this is some gruelling nightmare, far from it, but there are far better places to be and, IMO, far more career relevant things to be doing.  Also, if you`ve never walked into the FSL course straight off of the officer course, you have no idea what you`re talking about and your opinions on the matter are hardly relevant.

Good luck in the future with your piss-poor attitude.

I hope that you are not representative of the Officers forthcoming in our future leadership. This NCM shakes her head & thinks we can do soooooo much better than this.

If you somehow to think that your situation is unique and that only "you" are of informed opinion ... we are in for a real treat the moment you take over command or leadership of anything, let alone anyone. Why did you post your whine here if those of us who've been there and done it don't have a clue (in your clueless opinion)? Looking for sympathy?

Have you signed out of your classroom yet to go get those critical to success slip-ons and t-shirts yet like you are able to do? Working hard on that french class today I see given the time of 11:59 local.  :

 

[aesop081]

you have no idea what you`re talking about and your opinions on the matter are hardly relevant.

....and your opinion on better/worse places to be is irrelevant. You have not been to anywhere / done anything of enough significance to know.

 

[The_Mauler]

Good luck in the future with your piss-poor attitude.

I hope that you are not representative of the Officers forthcoming in our future leadership. This NCM shakes her head & thinks we can do soooooo much better than this.

If you somehow to think that your situation is unique and that only "you" are of informed opinion ... we are in for a real treat the moment you take over command or leadership of anything, let alone anyone. Why did you post your whine here if those of us who've been there and done it don't have a clue (in your clueless opinion)? Looking for sympathy?

Have you signed out of your classroom yet to go get those critical to success slip-ons and t-shirts yet like you are able to do? Working hard on that french class today I see given the time of 11:59 local.  :

My, but you are militant! 
The concern, as far as the epaulettes and t-shirts were concerned, was with dress and deportment- which I happen to take seriously-, but maybe you don`t care either way?  I am fairly new to this forum, but do you need to be so hostile?

 

[aesop081]

was with dress and deportment- which I happen to take seriously-,

We have people here, officers and NCMs, who do not wear the blue ranks because of shortages. If operational folks can get on with the job wearing the old style ranks, i think you can too.

 

[armyvern]

My, but you are militant! 
The concern, as far as the epaulettes and t-shirts were concerned, was with dress and deportment- which I happen to take seriously-, but maybe you don`t care either way?  I am fairly new to this forum, but do you need to be so hostile?

Militant? How quaint.

Dress and deportment is a big part of my current day-job. Believe you me --- I care; it's in the profile. 

The life crises over such (it is the big complaint you voiced wrt being on course after all)?? The 'you ain't me' so your opinions aren't worthy because I am special comment?? The "I should have married the girlfriend to avoid the CF screwing me around on "worthless" career courses"??

Your issues; not mine. Learn to deal with them, else when an actually worthwile and important problem arises in your future you will find that others will solve them whilst you flounder.

 

[Good2Golf]

My, but you are militant! 
The concern, as far as the epaulettes and t-shirts were concerned, was with dress and deportment- which I happen to take seriously-, but maybe you don`t care either way?  I am fairly new to this forum, but do you need to be so hostile?

I sure hope so.  Imagine if people in the military were....civilianized.  Luckily we have sergeant majors like ArmyVern and Mr. Seggie to help keep that from happening.

Son, you need a serious review of your motivation and career ethic.  Hopefully you find it while learning French.

Regards
G2G

 

[dimsum]

Whoa, whoa, why don't everyone take a step back and take a few deep breaths.

Mauler:  People may seem hostile because to be honest, this isn't such a big deal.  Are you getting jacked up by the school SM for having the wrong colours?  If so, then maybe you have a case for signing out of class and getting the epaulettes and t-shirts.  If not, then I think he/she understands that it's really not that big of a priority. 

Also, there was (is still?) a shortage of the blue-on-olive epaulettes, even at operational squadrons/bases....and you'd think that they get the stocks first.  Again, no big deal. 

(Not sarcastic) What do you think is a relevant use of your pre-wings OJT time if not SLT? 

 

[armyvern]

I'm breathing perfectly fine Dimsum; no need to worry about me. 

I would like an answer to that "has he signed out yet question" ... as he certainly has insinuated that he had zero means of going to clothing to accomplish such with his earlier post and ergo why he is so hard done by in this big military racket ...

 

[Gunner98]

My, but you are militant! 
The concern, as far as the epaulettes and t-shirts were concerned, was with dress and deportment- which I happen to take seriously-, but maybe you don`t care either way?  I am fairly new to this forum, but do you need to be so hostile?

A pilot who takes dress and deportment seriously, you are a special officer.  Give it some time and things will become more important.  Most officers over the past couple of decades have spent months of their lives in St. Jean or some sort of SLT.  There is a rather big difference between being militant/hostile and being realistic.  You are receiving feedback from Sgt-Majors and Senior Officers with decades in uniform yet somehow we are irrelevant compared to the experiences of a recent BOMQ grad.  Bonne chance and enjoy your time in the Mega, I found a way to do so for several months of my life on different occasions.

 

[gcclarke]

Half of sweet FA is still ... sweet FA. 

For everyone else:  I`m not saying that this is some gruelling nightmare, far from it, but there are far better places to be and, IMO, far more career relevant things to be doing.  Also, if you`ve never walked into the FSL course straight off of the officer course, you have no idea what you`re talking about and your opinions on the matter are hardly relevant.

Oooh ooh oooh, does this mean that my opinions on the matter are relevant?

3 days prior to my course's graduation from CFLRS, us naval engineering types were informed that no, we wouldn't actually be all moving to Halifax to proceed on Second Language Training there, instead we'd all be staying in the Mega and doing our SLT at the St-Jean CFLS Det.

Would it have been nicer to be on a (predominately) Naval base? Yes.

Were there "better things" we could have been doing to progress with our career? I'd honestly argue no. Sure, if I had skipped that portion, I *might* have made Lt(N) about half a year quicker. That is of course assuming that they re-jiggered the course timings at the Naval Engineering School to accommodate us, and that we didn't just end up sitting around doing nothing for the months that elapsed. But, even with that assumption, I would now be an Lt(N) who couldn't speak french worth a tinker's dam. Would this be good for my prospects at future promotion(s)? Hell no. It's a heck of a lot harder to get on these types of courses when you have an actual job to do.

And more importantly:

Did we have a say in the matter? No.

Did we suck it up and make the best of the situation? Yes.

Even assuming that you continue to live in the Mega, it's not all that bad. You can get your internet connections, cable, etc in your rooms. The mess is rather decent, and rather active. And if not, downtown St Jean can definitely be fun, and Montreal's a hop skip and a jump away. Make the best of the hand dealt to you instead of whining about how others might have been given better cards.

 

[Ayrsayle]

Lacking the personal experience with the system, but looking at it from the other side of the fence:

I will very shortly be a new OCdt going through this system, and it kills me that french ISN'T mandatory for my trade (Infantry). I understand the rationale (as I will not likely need it right away), but I feel like this is truly an amazing opportunity to further your own knowledge and gain a career edge. I fully intend to push as hard as I can to get on it (if possible) and I'd be grateful enough to do it in my PJ's.

Getting paid to be a student, how horrible!  I paid through the nose for my university education (which included learning a second language - Latin - which I did not excel at but saw the utility of). If you are that disappointed in the opportunity, I can assure you there are more like me that would happily take your place.

My apologies for the rant, stuff like this seems to hit a nerve.

 

[armyvern]

Lacking the personal experience with the system, but looking at it from the other side of the fence:

I will very shortly be a new OCdt going through this system, and it kills me that french ISN'T mandatory for my trade (Infantry). I understand the rationale (as I will not likely need it right away), but I feel like this is truly an amazing opportunity to further your own knowledge and gain a career edge. I fully intend to push as hard as I can to get on it (if possible) and I'd be grateful enough to do it in my PJ's.

Getting paid to be a student, how horrible!  I paid through the nose for my university education (which included learning a second language - Latin - which I did not excel at but saw the utility of). If you are that disappointed in the opportunity, I can assure you there are more like me that would happily take your place.

My apologies for the rant, stuff like this seems to hit a nerve.

Ahhh, what a gracious relief. Thank you.

Keep the great attitude; it will serve you well. Ensure that you advise your mangler of your desire for the course --- annually if necessary. Best of luck to you.

Vern

 

[Franko]

Locking this one up. It's spiraled nicely.

To the OP, you've been told by a MWO, WO, a couple of Capts, a Maj to grow up.

Take the hint.

The Army.ca Staff