NHL 2011/2012 - Now "The Lockout" Thread

[cupper]

Pittsburgh just might be done. Hello the new version of the Caps. And I won't shed a tear what with the chief whiner of the league being in their employ. Before I'm attacks for that, I like Sidney Crosby. I am a fan. If he left some of the BS out of his game I'd be fine with him. But he hasn't, even after he swore off of it when he returned.

:goodpost: - And I've never liked Crosby, starting from his time playing in Cole Harbor as a whiney little kid.

Someone please piledrive Brad Marchand, I am getting sick of him.

:cheers: I agree with you. The "Little Ball of Hate" is starting to become another Matt Cooke. He can play well, but his need to stir up crap takes away from his value as a player.

It's a human game and so calls are always going to be missed.

I'll give you that, but when you get calls like the one where Toews was sent to the box for goaltender interference after Smith throws the block on him, you begin to question how these guys could be calling at this level.

And can we please get rid of the delay of game call for puck over the glass?

 

[Scott]

I don't like anyone who has yapping and bitching as a part of their game. I got tired of Darcy Tucker, Sean Avery, Jaarko Ruutu, among others. Crosby doesn't need to do it and it only seems like a big old temper tantrum every time he does. There are other players in the same skill category as him who don't see the need for it.

Comparing Cooke and Marchand is a bit of a stretch for me.

Missed calls and inconsistency are not the same thing. That linesman missed an offside the other night. The same night there was an icing let go (which also led to a goal)...but those are not the same beast as calls made for one thing and not another.

I am not sure where I am for the delay of game call and think the opponents of it have a great point. I believe the icing rule leads to more stress than a 5-4 power play would where you can, as a matter of course, ice the puck as a defence. I'd suppose that the new icing rule should lead to penalty calls because teams are tired and sloppy, but then we'd be right back to a consistency thing because we know the last minute of a close playoff game the refs like to put their whistles away.

 

[cupper]

Missed calls and inconsistency are not the same thing.

I agree. If the league has a problem in officiating it's consistency. Both game to game, and period to period.

And as for putting the whistles away in the final few minutes of a close game,,or in overtime, I get that you don't want the officials being responsible for shifting the momentum and influencing the game. BUt if you've been calling things tight for the first 50 minutes, not calling it in the last 10 does exactly that.

Biggest inconsistency I see is calling of goaltender interference. Especially when the rule book clearly spells it out, with multiple examples covering all possible situations. ANd they still vary from official to official in how it gets called.

 

[Scott]

Yes, the goalie interference thing has gotten bad at almost all levels of hockey (it has to start to be corrected somewhere)

Just last year a kid nearly dies in the dressing room after being blindsided late in an out of reach game by the other team's goon. Cops investigated, no charges, but the kid has never been the same. Still a great goalie but not near as dominant. This was his last year in Junior, so effectively the goon got what he aimed for.

This season I was at a game where the local tendy got run to the tune of 8 stitches. Then the other goalie gets run in retaliation and a line brawl starts. The one fight rule in Junior has a part to play in this, the suspensions have a part to play in this, and the refs not being consistent have a huge part to play in this. And that's on the amateur level. At the pro level the stakes are even higher and people will go further. So where's Sherriff Shanny for the goalies?

 

[Scott]

I just watched Franzen's blatant spear on the Predator's bench. He should be getting some supplemental discipline for that boneheaded move. I don't care if they are getting under your skin, that kind of shit is way wrong.

Oh, and watching some online clips of John Torterella getting angry. Is it just me or is Torts the new Lindy Ruff - outraged about...something, anything. Comparing the Rangers' hit on Alfie, a dirty elbow, with the clean, albeit somewhat high, shoulder your man took is idiotic, go bluster elsewhere.

 

[Infanteer]

I must say, I am enjoying the circus show called Philly vs Pitt.  Defence?  What's that?  Goaltending - who needs it?!?  Only in this kind of 1970s series could a goalie like Bryz have a 4.00+ GAA and still be 3-0....

 

[Scott]

I rather enjoyed Crosby's "fight". I hope some of his biggest fans were watching that - especially after all of his claims to be done with "that stuff". And the whacking at Bryz's glove hand? What was that? Cheap and dirty. More and more people are catching on to his antics.

Oh, and Asham? He needs to sit down for 3 games. IMO, it was a clean hit and Asham, a repeat offender IIRC, lost the plot and went all thug like. Bullshit.

I saw the clip of Mario looking on. I wonder if he gets the irony of this considering he was all up in arms about the goonery a little while back.

 

[OldSolduer]

Facebook post I put up:

"To the Penguins and the Flyers - niether of you deserve to play in the NHL. Your antics belong in the bush league. Stop the cheap crap and play freakin hockey. 158 minutes in penalties? If I were the GM of either team I'd be looking to dock the players some money. RIP Mike, Kimberly and all our fallen!!

Furthermore - to the Board of Governors - drop the "instigator" rule and go after the chickensh*ts who give face washes then run and hide at the first sign of a Domi, Probert or Asham come your way. Tired of the antics."

Yes I am tired of the twerps who beak off then turtle as soon as a tough guy looks their way. The instigator rule has to go.

Crosby may be our current target for "whininess" but The Great One used to call penalties, mostly for the too men men call. And the officials would listen to him.

Chris Chelios was penalized one night and ranted at the ref for 10 minutes. Every call, even the marginal players, whine.

Someone should remind them that there are a few hundred thousand of us that would have killed for ONE SHIFT with one NHL team, and stop making a mockery of the game.

Rant ends....for now.

 

[Scott]

Sorry, Jim, I can't agree entirely. I am not talking about Chelios, Gretzky, Messier or Darren Puppa - I am talking about, arguably, the best player in the game today, the guy that the NHL is hoping stays healthy for a very long time so that he remains a fan draw, the dude who was at least a small part of the push to go after concussions and head shots. The guy who stated, clearly, that he was "done with this stuff" (and I know he meant he was "done" with the same BS he pulled yesterday)

I am going to read Crosby his horoscope: some day, likely soon, someone is going to get hold of him when no one can ride in to save him. And they are going to pummel Sidney. And he will deserve every single shot (the way he is playing now) How many times does it have to be said before he catches on? It ain't just us fans telling him.

I do agree that some of the stuff has to go and I do agree that dropping the instigator would be more good harmful. It would make some of these guys account for themselves, it would allow teams the option of dressing that fourth liner who might only play 5 minutes and it would hold certain players accountable. I've never been a fan of the staged fight, but tuning someone up because they'v earned it is fine in my books.

Crosby ought to thank God that Hartnell never got hold of him.

 

[PuckChaser]

I do agree that some of the stuff has to go and I do agree that dropping the instigator would be more good harmful. It would make some of these guys account for themselves, it would allow teams the option of dressing that fourth liner who might only play 5 minutes and it would hold certain players accountable. I've never been a fan of the staged fight, but tuning someone up because they'v earned it is fine in my books.

I'd agree here, but stipulate we have stiff penalties for fighting someone who isn't willing to go. Matt Carkner is a perfect example, blindsides a guy, punches him 10 times while holding him on the ground and he only gets 1 game? Shannahan is doing a horrible job of discipline, its so all over the map its not even funny. He should have gotten 3 games and Hagelin gotten 1, his elbow was penalized and clearly an accident from a first-time offender.

 

[Scott]

I think you're comparing apples to bowling balls, the incidents are different, the players different, the outcomes different.

IMO, they both deserved 3 games. Carkner got off very light and Hagelin got exactly what he deserved for a targeted elbow and injuring a player.

 

[PuckChaser]

Incidents aren't different, they're both hits to the head are they not? Its not a fight if the other guy is on the ground turtled. Hagelin has 24 PM for the whole season, he's not a dirty player and texted Alfredsson after the game to apologize. In no way was that a targetted elbow, he didn't even lead with it. Carkner said Boyle deserved it and was not remorseful.

 

[OldSolduer]

Some "players" need a good tuning up. You know the kind - the facewashers who hide behind the linesman when the real players confront them. Or those that shoot their mouths off expecting no retribution.

Anyone on here old enough to remember Ken Linsman?

 

[Scott]

Incidents aren't different, they're both hits to the head are they not? Its not a fight if the other guy is on the ground turtled. Hagelin has 24 PM for the whole season, he's not a dirty player and texted Alfredsson after the game to apologize. In no way was that a targetted elbow, he didn't even lead with it. Carkner said Boyle deserved it and was not remorseful.

You've been watching different clips then I have then. It was worthy of the three games. So was Carkner's BS, as stated already.

Carkner started swinging before the other guy turtled and the dude has a chance to go but didn't want to. Carkner kept it up and has earned his place but, IMO, wasn't punished enough for it. That's what I mean by apples and bowling balls. I am more than happy to talk nuances of the game when people can admit that certain plays are different. Someone bowling a goalie over is not =/= to a two handed high stick to the mush.

Jim, I would suggest that Sidney is the one in need of a serious tuning up. By coaches, team mates and by opponents. That or he's just left alone because he will get say with this horseshit when he arrives at the IIHF Championships in a couple of week's time.

I remember Linsman. I also remember Probert, McSorley and a whole host of others. None of those people were angelic all of the time and they did no always follow their "code", either. But I see more apples and bowling balls - it's different today. Not better, just different.

 

[krustyrl]

I for one, am enjoying the Philly- Pittsburgh series.  It's been a very long time since I've seen the game played with that much intensity. Granted there are some buffoon activities but the good old days of hard hitting grinding hockey disappeared.  It's also probably putting butts in the seats too.! 

Players that do stupid things on the ice (for the most part) are getting penalized and putting their teams at a disadvantage. That's why there are referees and penalties.  I don't like the head shots that have been delivered and agree they should be dealt with in a severe manner, although I would also like to see the instigator rule gone.  Been a while since I've seen the 3rd man-in rule used.

I am a fan of the rock'em sock'em brand of hockey.    :2c:

:hockey:

 

[bridges]

Hockey these days seems to be all about hitting - who's doing it, who's avoiding it, who deserves sanctions & how severe.  It's as if the playmaking, puck handling, power play, penalty-killing & other aspects of the game don't even matter anymore - they've been completely overshadowed. 

I would kill (so to speak) to watch a good, clean, skilled game - not necessarily devoid of body checks, but where they're not everyone talks about afterwards, because they're so busy talking about the amazing speed, flow, passing, saves and goals. 

As always, with hockey fans, hope reigns supreme.

 

[Scott]

I would kill (so to speak) to watch a good, clean, skilled game - not necessarily devoid of body checks, but where they're not everyone talks about afterwards, because they're so busy talking about the amazing speed, flow, passing, saves and goals. 

Check out CIS hockey. Not perfect, no game ever will be, but they do root out the BS pretty effectively.

I like Rock 'Em, Sock 'Em as well and I enjoy, as Brian Burke would put it, truculence. But I do not enjoy the current level of stick work, whining and two faced play.

 

[OldSolduer]

Check out CIS hockey. Not perfect, no game ever will be, but they do root out the BS pretty effectively.

I like Rock 'Em, Sock 'Em as well and I enjoy, as Brian Burke would put it, truculence. But I do not enjoy the current level of stick work, whining and two faced play.

I prefer the World Juniors. They play harder and with less garbage than the "pros" do.

Where do the "pros"  learn to whine like that? Is there a school for that?

 

[bridges]

Check out CIS hockey. Not perfect, no game ever will be, but they do root out the BS pretty effectively.

I like Rock 'Em, Sock 'Em as well and I enjoy, as Brian Burke would put it, truculence. But I do not enjoy the current level of stick work, whining and two faced play.

Truculence...  ;D    Yes, exactly.

Good tip about CIS hockey - thanks.  I'll check it out.  I wonder how often their games come up on the cable/satellite specialty channels... I was going to cave this fall and get the TSN-Jets channel anyway, so if there's some CIS coverage in there too, great.

IIHF world championships start in 17 days....

 

[bridges]

I prefer the World Juniors. They play harder and with less garbage than the "pros" do.

Yes, exactly.  All juniors levels - I've seen the Brandon Wheat Kings, Ottawa 67s, good hockey.  Same holds true for baseball - the Ottawa Fat Cats play 100%, all the time, and actually made the playoff finals last fall.  Maybe they're just hungrier.  Whatever the reason, a refreshing change from pro sports in general.