New CM for sailor accused of "dicking around" with milk

[OldSolduer]

Why thank you and I shall try to do better in the future!!  ;D

 

[medicineman]

And I'm sure the MO would believe you when you said you caught it from a glass of chocolate milk.

Which will pretty much let you know what people of all ranks think of you.

MM

 

[Jarnhamar]

lol
I did this to my best friend but a cheese burger.
Then again he dragged me to Captain Jacks for my bachlor party on the Formula 1 weekend where it was just the two of us at the bar and staff.

Figure that squares us up.

 

[Hammer Sandwich]

lol
I did this to my best friend and a cheese burger.
Then again he dragged me to Captain Jacks for my bachlor party on the Formula 1 weekend where it was just the two of us at the bar and staff.

Figure that squares us up.

Wow.
Pen-15 in your drinks, and burger.

Were you his/was he your Boss?

 

[KnightShift]

lol
I did this to my best friend and a cheese burger.

Which one felt better?  :blotto:

 

[Hammer Sandwich]

Which one felt better?  :blotto:

:rofl:
Hahahahahaha...I just read it again......(as it looks like you read it!)

 

[Jarnhamar]

My mistake, I meant BUT instead- a cheese burger. Considering I was drunk and the burger and cheese slice were hot off the grill I learned a valuable lesson. 
He only found out 6 years later, I think I'd prefer the CM over being chased with a hatchet- luckily I ran faster scared than he did angry.

 

[Hammer Sandwich]

He only found out 6 years later, I think I'd prefer the CM over being chased with a hatchet- luckily I ran faster scared than he did angry.

To me, this is the difference....a couple of buddies actin' silly, (hilarious as it might be),  vs. a SUPERIOR doing it to a SUBORDINATE, (without his knowledge, at that).

Dick in my milk, MCpl? (or MS, or whatever)

No thanks.

Party (and career) foul.

IMO

 

[TwoTonShackle]

Obviously this is not acceptable behavior by any military member. That being said something like that could of been handled on ship by the PMC, the Coxn or even the CO.

If a complaint is brought forth it must be investigated.  If I witnessed something like this, I'd bring it forward for a disciplinary investigation.  If this person is going to do something like this in front of people, what would they do when no one is watching?  Nobody wants to air dirty laundry, but actions like this deserve disciplinary measures.

 

[Stoker]

If a complaint is brought forth it must be investigated.  If I witnessed something like this, I'd bring it forward for a disciplinary investigation.  If this person is going to do something like this in front of people, what would they do when no one is watching?  Nobody wants to air dirty laundry, but actions like this deserve disciplinary measures.

I agree that it should be investigated, however lots of stuff is handled by the PMC's of messes that don't necessarily make it to the Coxn's ear. This while very stupid could of been handled in house by the PMC or went as far as the Coxn who could of straightened it out and saved the crown thousands of dollars.

 

[TwoTonShackle]

I agree that it should be investigated, however lots of stuff is handled by the PMC's of messes that don't necessarily make it to the Coxn's ear. This while very stupid could of been handled in house by the PMC or went as far as the Coxn who could of straightened it out and saved the crown thousands of dollars.

I fail to see how this going to court martial costs the crown thousands of dollars, CM's aren't contracted out.  The A/Jags, prosecutors, court officers and judge are already on the crown payroll.  They don't "charge" more for performing their duties.  I'm guessing that the west coast already has an office space similar to the east where the court martial is held.  In my opinion this is not something that could be corrected or addressed by a PMC or Coxn's "extra" duty watches.  Without a charge, there is no punishment only extra training.  What would be the appropriate training regime in order to teach someone not to put their penis in chocolate milk?

 

[Stoker]

Everything costs money even in the military. If the witnesses were at end of contract and were at their home units they would have to flown back to the CM for example. As bad as this was, its not the same as murder or anything close.  I suspect the individual in question tried to make a joke as bad as it was and it backfired on him. That being said do you think he should be kicked out for it?

 

[TwoTonShackle]

103.26 – CRUEL OR DISGRACEFUL CONDUCT
(1) Section 93 of the National Defence Act provides:
“93. Every person who behaves in a cruel or disgraceful manner is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to less punishment.”

First off, if he did it, he is guilty of a service offence.  What I think is an appropriate punishment would be an uninformed guess, I would hope demotion at the least.  If he was dismissed, it would be a strong general deterrent for others.  We obviously have different outlooks on this CS, I'd be curious how you would have handled this is as PMC/COXN/CO?

 

[Stoker]

First of all I don't know the circumstances only what I have read. I do know some of the people involved as some of them have worked for me at some point of time. As PMC suspension of mess privileges for 6 months. As Coxn lots of extra dutywatches and every dirty job I can think of. As CO, mbr unbecoming with the max fine and/or stoppage of leave I can give him. I would like to know what motivated this person to do this, was he drinking?, did he have a clean record up to this point?
In the end yes he should be punished, to take his rank and/or imprisonment I would have to say no and I would have to say no to a CM.

 

[OldSolduer]

I agree with Chief Stoker, and would like to add this:

The LS was told to do something that was his duty to do, namely change the milk when it was emptied, if I remember correctly. The LS said "when I'm finished my meal" or words to that effect. Unacceptable. The MS should have requested to see the LS privately and "counselled" him on obeying his superiors.

Sticking your manhood in milk or even the appearance of it is NOT good leadership, period. He deserves a charge, Summary Trial, HOWEVER this is a charge in which the accused may elect a court martial.


Just my  :2c: plus PST and GST but not HST.

 

[ModlrMike]

To further amplify what Jim said:

There are two offences here - the LS for insubordination, and the MS for disgraceful conduct.

While we only have part of the incident recorded here, I think that the MS committed the more grievous act. I have to respectfully disagree with those who feel resolution at a lower level is warranted. Neither do I agree that imprisonment or rank reduction are suitable punishments. A public trial, finding of guilty (or not) and fine will adequately serve justice. Then again, I'm not hearing the case.

 

[Stoker]

To further amplify what Jim said:

There are two offences here - the LS for insubordination, and the MS for disgraceful conduct.

While we only have part of the incident recorded here, I think that the MS committed the more grievous act. I have to respectfully disagree with those who feel resolution at a lower level is warranted. Neither do I agree that imprisonment or rank reduction are suitable punishments. A public trial, finding of guilty (or not) and fine will adequately serve justice. Then again, I'm not hearing the case.

Fair enough, the fact that this case with the appeal by the military has dragged on so long concerns me as well. Regardless of what the MS did or didn't do, deserves swift justice. Just the stigma of "he's the guy who stuck his wang in the milk" will stay with him for many years, punishment enough I think.

 

[dapaterson]

Depending on the charges, the MS may have had the option to elect a CM, and decided to roll the dice before a judge instead of the CO.  Alternatively, it may be that there were delays in laying the charge, and if it was over a year, it has to proceed to CM; a summary trial must begin within a year of the alleged crime.

Lots of reasons why it could be a CM and not a summary trial.

 

[vonGarvin]

a summary trial must begin within a year of the alleged crime.

Interesting, and it got me thinking.

QR&O 108.05 states in part:

All other offences that a presiding officer may try by summary trial are subject to a one-year limitation period under paragraph 69(b) of the National Defence Act.

The NDA, however, no longer has 69 (b).  The current version says this in para 69

69. (1) A person who is subject to the Code of Service Discipline at the time of the alleged commission of a service offence may be charged, dealt with and tried at any time under the Code.

Sections 130 and 132

(2) Despite subsection (1), if the service offence is punishable under section 130 or 132 and the act or omission that constitutes the service offence would have been subject to a limitation period had it been dealt with other than under the Code, then that limitation period applies.

It used to say this:

69. A person who is subject to the Code of Service Discipline at the time of the alleged commission of a service offence may be charged, dealt with and tried at any time under the Code, subject to the following:

(a) if the service offence is punishable under section 130 or 132 and the act or omission that constitutes the service offence would have been subject to a limitation period had it been dealt with other than under the Code, that limitation period applies; and

(b) the person may not be tried by summary trial unless the trial begins before the expiry of one year after the day on which the service offence is alleged to have been committed.

Is it the case that the NDA now states that there is no such limitation (except in the case of sub para 2.)?

 

[Loachman]

Which one felt better?  :blotto:

It may take me some time to stop laughing. I suspect that I'll have minor recurrences throughout the day.